UFO's and Warp Drives

The apparent ability UFO's have to move faster than any conventional aircraft and then suddenly change trajectory without making any sound tells us something about their propulsion systems. A biological being could not survive the G forces generated by such maneuvers, perhaps indicating they might be autonomous drones or controlled remotely. However, recent whistle-blower testimony indicates they are piloted by biological entities. The way these craft move and the silence with which they move suggests they are making use of a very exotic propulsion system.

A warp drive is a good fit and can explain how they are able to move so erratically. A traditional propulsion system moves the craft through space but a warp drive moves space around the craft. As a result the craft wont build up momentum and the trajectory of the craft can quickly change by changing the warp field. It seems to me like the most practical way of going about it would be to warp space in small increments or "pulses" which only shift the craft a short distance, but will produce extremely high speeds if pulsed at a high enough frequency.

I recently had an interesting discussion where someone pointed out that we could potentially detect warp drives operating near Earth by using gravitational wave detectors, which could be a good way to determine if we are being visited since a warp drive is essentially the only scientifically plausible way to travel interstellar distances in any reasonable amount of time. However, the gravitational wave detectors currently on Earth are tuned for very specific frequencies like black hole mergers and may not pick up the signals generated by a warp drive.

Also, gravitational waves carry energy, for example our planet is producing gravitational waves as it moves through space, and as a result Earth is slowly losing speed, but it's a very small amount. That means the most efficient warp drive would probably need to reduce the amount of gravitational waves being radiated into the surrounding environment. Doing so would also help make the craft more stealthy by reducing any detectable signals. It's also not clear what a warp drive signal would look like since we haven't seen one before.

Even if it is possible to build a working warp drive, there are still many challenges we'll need to overcome. Like how do we avoid objects while moving at near the speed of light? We might try using some sort of force field or the warp field itself to repel small objects, but large objects still present a problem and it's difficult to detect everything at such fast speeds. Any signal we send out is limited to the speed of light, so if using a system like radar, we might reach the object before the signal even has time to return to us.

This problem made me lose hope in the idea of warp drives for a while, but something occurred to me the other day when I was watching one of those military UFO videos where the craft suddenly dives into the ocean as if the water wasn't even there. It's actually quite a common occurrence, some people even think they have underwater bases. It would seem they have found a way to travel right through solid matter, and it's the perfect solution to the problem. I truly hope it is possible, just imagine the possibilities for exploration.

It may sound fairly outlandish, but it might actually be possible with sufficiently advanced technology. Atoms are more than 99.99% empty space and there might be ways to manipulate the state of matter to achieve things that seem like magic to us. It's also worth noting that many abductees report floating through walls, which suggests they have mastered this technology. If I were speculate, it could have something to do with the vibrational state of matter, altering it might allow solid objects to "phase" through each other unimpeded by atomic forces.

Maybe the people who call aliens higher vibrational beings were onto something after all lol. Personally I don't really believe there are any extra dimensions hidden from us because the evidence seems to go against such theories. However, I have to wonder if UFO's are some sort of inter-dimensional craft capable of phasing in and out of our reality. I think the fact they usually appear as glowing orbs of energy also gives us a hint about how they work, it could be related to how the warp field bends light or related to how they move through solid objects.

Another problem with warp drives which may be hard to overcome is the requirement for "exotic" energy. You've probably heard physicists use that term when talking about warp drives, but what are they really talking about? Exotic energy in this case refers to negative energy, which most scientists don't believe can exist because it would have strange properties like negative mass. In recent times some have tried to design warp drives without a need for negative energy, but from what I understand those designs were later proven to be flawed.

Interestingly enough, for the last few years I've been developing a theory to explain dark matter and dark energy which hinges on the existence of negative energy/mass. I wasn't thinking about warp drives when I started working on it, and I still think it's one of the strongest explanations for dark matter and dark energy. At this point it's extremely clear both the WIMP and MOND models have problems and can't explain all the observational data. So I think there's still a decent chance that negative energy does naturally exist or can be created.

Admittedly, our chances of ever building a working warp drive seems low, a lot of physics needs to work just the right way to make it possible. Our Milky Way galaxy is estimated to be about 100,000 light years in diameter, meaning it takes about 100,000 years to travel from one side to the other even moving at the speed of light. The only realistic way for us to reach other star systems in a reasonable amount of time, and the only way for distant civilizations to reach us in a reasonable time, is by traveling at a decent fraction of light speed.

As a programmer I often seen how clever people can exploit the tiniest loophole or weakness in a system to achieve things that shouldn't be possible. I have no doubt we'll exploit the loopholes in the laws of physics the same way. We'll continue to reduce the energy requirements by improving the warp bubble topology, finding better ways to generate or pulse the field, minimizing the gravitational wave radiation, etc. I have faith that one day we will reach the level of understanding required to tame the fabric of space-time.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
The apparent ability UFO's have to move faster than any conventional aircraft and then suddenly change trajectory without making any sound tells us something about their propulsion systems.

I have heard claims like these for years, but nobody ever has any evidence of such behavior, until, finally along comes Chad Underwood, who says he finally made a video of a UFO defying the laws of physics. Have you ever seen any other evidence of these extraordinary claims?

However, Underwood's video only shows a misinterpretation, which is a reasonable assumption of what all the other such claims also involve, until we see evidence to the contrary. So I am not seeing any scientifically supportable evidence of any apparent ability of UFOs to suddenly change trajectory. In fact, while Chad Underwood's video does appear to show that, a careful analysis shows that it actually doesn't make any sudden moves; the unexpected movement is a result of loss of target lock combined with change in zoom. The human perception system has even more ways it can misinterpret things than the limited elements of Underwood's camera system.

One possible exception might be Fravor's sighting which some have speculated might have been an experimental "ghost craft" made of plasma with no mass, so sudden changes in position or trajectory are nearly effortless, and don't require any warp drive. Possibly something like a military version of this could do what Fravor described:


I don't know if you consider that exploiting any loopholes in the laws of physics but some people will claim no objects can move that way, but those projections are not objects, though they could be made to appear to be objects. I expect the military's secret programs have even more impressive things than that unclassified public demo.

We know the military has been working on projecting false fleets and swarms to fool enemies, on various types of sensors:

The Navy’s Secretive And Revolutionary Program To Project False Fleets From Drone Swarms

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Well I've certainly heard a lot of witness testimony describing them move in very erratic ways without making any sound and I've certainly seen several videos showing them move like that.

What you're saying is, it's more likely that UFO's are made from plasma projections? That seems pretty unlikely to me considering these objects have been seen for hundreds of years.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

You have no understanding of theoretical space travel technology.

The easiest way to keep a biological being alive in the observed menouvers is simply full the cabin with water. All animal life is almost exactly the same average density as water. The operator would not even notice the menouvers affect except within orgins similar to our inner ears.

Now, in science fiction, this is handled by an inertia dampening field. It does the same thing without the water.

The warp drive cannot be used close to a planet because the magnetic field of the planet would interfere with the warp drive field. Also, if someone tried it in an atmosphere, it would most likely destroy said planet by ignoring that atmosphere from compression alone. Look up dieseling.

The warp drive in itself just changes certain properties if the space around the ship in a way to make the speed of light not be a limit.

What you describe is a dark matter drive from 'Futurama'. That drive system uses dark matter to move the universe while the ship stays still.

All of this is not needed with a gravity drive. The gravity drive utilizes grevity fields to let the ship just fall in any desired direction. So the ship itself never experiences any inertia because the gravity within and around the ship is always normal to the planet of origin for comfort of the beings on board.

I hope you learned something from this. If you would like to know more, please click here.

this might sound a bit out there but i remember reading a story around the time of the concord crash that they were developing or had possibly developed an attachment that sat in the nose cone of the plane that separated positive and negative ions thus creating zero drag maybe that could also negate g force perhaps. another story was scientists working with scalar waves to design something like a laser scalpel was one example that could literally cut between atoms lowering blood loss but imagine that as a personal sheild on a human , non human they could literally walk through walls or into the ocean and not get wet .

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I've never seen it necessary to make a big fuss of how the UFOs operate, and how some hypotheses get wound up in lengthily explanations that clearly ignore practical experiences reported by the thousands exactly as long as UFOs have been apparent to our senses. Many of modern "theorists" tend to by like Orville and Wilber's critics: "Oh, you/we can't do that! Man can't fly," but we do it nicely if not up to the virtual max of real physics and the perceived limits by some folks.

The UFO folk, and we should allow this to include various creatures around the galaxy, have solved the basic problem of physics as to make it a non-problem.

UFOs can be seen as enveloping themselves in a field that shields themselves from the effects of gravity, mass inertia and probably time. Many, many times over the years I've tried to explain on ATS under this name and others that it is a simple process given that you have the means to generate that field. The craft can move virtually instantaneously in air, space and water.

In the atmosphere, we accept and understand, in a way, how they do that as it is somewhat related our practices of air flow. In water, it is the same but harder to envision. The field around the ship negates the physics of the air/water around the ship to some small distance. That air/water is also without mass and swiftly moves aside and around the body of the craft with zero resistance. In the air, we cannot see it, but in water, we want to see some disturbance around the medium at the prow and at the stern. But we don't see and from our understanding we expect a wake to be left behind from the water having been thrust aside. When actually, the area field neutralizes the natural mass of the water and it simply flows around the entire ship smoothly without a ripple...exactly as seen by the F-18 pilots.

In effect, I've used Occom's Razor here on the topic. Other simple, practical explanations may apply. I'm not a rocket scientist

a reply to: beyondknowledge2

The easiest way to keep a biological being alive in the observed menouvers is simply full the cabin with water.

Adding extra mass doesn't seem like a great solution, the craft itself is still going to experience massive forces, and the craft will be torn apart well before you reach light speed even if it's made of the strongest and lightest materials we have.

Now, in science fiction, this is handled by an inertia dampening field. It does the same thing without the water.

And how exactly would an inertia dampening field work? If an object has kinetic energy then that energy has to go somewhere. A warp drive avoids the problem all together by warping space around the craft without affecting the interior.

The warp drive cannot be used close to a planet because the magnetic field of the planet would interfere with the warp drive field.

How would a magnetic field interfere with a gravitational field? Is there any science to support that claim because I doubt it. Having said that, it could certainly be very dangerous to operate some types of warp drives inside an atmosphere.

What you describe is a dark matter drive from 'Futurama'. That drive system uses dark matter to move the universe while the ship stays still.

Dark matter is not the same as exotic matter / negative matter. Dark matter is used by many sci-fi shows as a hand wavy explanation for how something works. We don't even know what dark matter really is at this point, we just know there's something there.

All of this is not needed with a gravity drive. The gravity drive utilizes grevity fields to let the ship just fall in any desired direction.

A gravity drive is a type of warp drive. A gravitational field is a result of curved space-time. For example, you feel the gravity of Earth because space-time is being curved by the mass of Earth. That's why a warp drive would give off gravitational waves, they warp space-time.

An anti-gravity drive would also be a type of warp drive because you would need to cancel out the gravity field of Earth, which would require it to be warped in some way. It almost seems like anti-gravity is a necessary precursor for a warp drive.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

You haven't had enough time to even scan over the Project Rho web site. It is the biggest repository off science fiction knowledge available. It was made for authors and fans of science fiction.

Gravity has nothing to do with warp drive, much like radio waves have nothing to do with gravity. A warp field bends the local sub space around the ship in such a way that it is not traveling faster than light but the field around the ship is traveling faster than light.

Inertial dampening fields have been used in many theoretical works of fiction. Much like the transporter, it solves a problem with handwavium technology.

If you can push a craft to the unbelievable speeds claimed to be observed, the extra mass of the water is irrelevant. You also need it for radiation shielding. Metal shielding just increases the radiation on board the faster you go.

The field of electrogravitics is one to check out when trying to make a warp drive. I cannot prove the following, but for some pieces to start making it work:

When the leading edge of a jet wing is charged to +100K volts not only does it reduce friction from the energetic bubble it creates, but also helps pull the plane through the air.

When a liquid mercury drive gets up to +25K RPM it creates its own inertial bubble allowing for anti gravity travel. It does get tricky trying to control this vortex, but if achieved is a start at controlling gravitational waves.

One technique to better control gravitational waves is to have 3 drives per ship. It is how these 3 drives relate to each other that determines the direction and speed of travel.

There are other ways to create gravity waves other than liquid mercury, they do take a lot of energy to power.

As for moving through solid matter, some kind of atomic phase adjustment like in the Philadelphia Experiment is one approach. It is a lot more finely tuned from the UFO reports with people not getting embedded in walls or suffering significant psychological trauma. As a general principle of how it is done it is one theory to start with.

a reply to: beyondknowledge2

I'm not trying to write a science fiction book so... not sure why I should care about that website. And I just explained exactly why gravity is related to warp drives. I feel like I'm talking to an AI or something lol.

a reply to: kwakakev

I have heard electrogravitics discussed in the context of anti-gravity, but I guess it might also be useful for a warp drive. I'm not sure if it would negate the need for exotic energy, I don't think so, but it's an interesting idea.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder
Some of the UFO maneuvers like dropping from 50-80k to sea level in a second go beyond exotic propulsion systems alone. Even a solid steel sphere would have a dent or other deformity at those acceleration/deceleration rates. Somehow the UFOs are avoiding interaction with the atoms of our atmosphere and the mass/gravity of our planet. I suspect that if you can figure out how to do that, propulsion and travel at any speed you want will be remarkably low-energy and easy.

I think that they are interested in our nuclear reactions, and our weapons that are essentially stored potential nuclear reactions. Due to the distances and the speed of light restrictions, the only way they could be here right now if nuclear reactions are what caught their attention is if:
1. They were already in our solar system probably for some time and monitored our scientific nuclear progression.
2. They are from only a few light years away at max and they were able to travel here at near light speed.
3. They were already on their way to Earth for a crash recovery mission and have discovered we reverse-engineered quite a bit out of that thing.
4. They've lived with us on earth the whole time hidden in the deep ocean or something.
5. The nuclear reaction creates ripples in a dimension that allows for faster than light travel, and they were able to travel here from very far away to the source of the nuclear ripples with a faster than light vehicle to investigate what is going on. (my leading guess)

originally posted by: Observer19
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

UFOs can be seen as enveloping themselves in a field that shields themselves from the effects of gravity, mass inertia and probably time.

If you can "shield" yourself from the "effects" of time,

You really needn't be the least bit concerned about speed (of light) or space (distance).


Speed is the time it takes to cover a certain amount of space (distance). If you "ignore" time (or, at least the linear perception of time), distance becomes irrelevant, regardless of whether in space, in the atmosphere, or under water.

How this "ignorance of time" might be achieved is a question I'd desperately like to ask a visiting NHI!

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I'm not sure if it would negate the need for exotic energy

Maybe it is just an exotic understanding from classical physics. While manufacturing a stable isotope of element 115 will have some energy gains, to get started we just need a deeper understanding of how things work.



With a low RPM some anti gravity effect is starting. What happens with this experiment as we speed up the RPM's? How fast do we need to go until the support wire is no longer needed to suspend the spinning wheel? Does the weight on the wire decrease as wheel speeds up? Without the aerodynamics forcing very fast cars down, they do fly. It is a challenge in material science to make something that can withstand such forces for a practical anti gravity drive, Perhaps why liquid mercury is one used as it just bends and flows with it. Containing and pushing the mercury up to speed is an issue.

If you are looking for something that does travel faster than light, then we do have to negate the mass somehow. With the Higgs Boson leading the race in defining mass, mass is caused by matter dragging through the fabric of space. So the faster we go, the heavier we get. It takes infinite energy to push an infinite mass to reach light speed with our classical approach.

To get exotic about it, can we isolate an area outside the fabric of space? Can we find a source of infinite energy? Could finding a temperature below absolute 0 crack open a rift with the quantum world? One tip when dealing with the mathematical challenges of infinity is to introduced another infinity to cancel it out.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Another thread with a reference to the glowing orbs

I've had years of contact and communication with such orbs. From this, I can give some very specific answers to your questions, based off what I understand

The principle you are visualising, is to my understanding, basically correct. It is only your perspective that is a little off, in that you are visualising things far too linearly

"Warp" suggest that space is overcome and bent. This is technically impossible. Or at least, would require technology and power, that is pointless, compared to much simpler methods

As far as I understanding it, to move with immediate acceleration, maneuvering and braking, you do not need to "warp" space. You just create a type of slipstream, referred to as "vector exchange"

The interior of the atmosphere, or any torus, is layers of equilibrium between internal and external forces

One that is subject to the higher/lower spectrum "dimensions" which brought it into being

When you push on this equilibrium, as one who exists within it ...

You are essentially creating an equal negative balance, pulling back on yourself, within the constants of the equilibrium. Likewise, when you pull on it, you create an equal negative balance, pushing against yourself within the constants of the equilibrium




This is the nature of a torus, everything is cyclical. Not linear. Meaning all positive and negative effects are balanced in both directions, exponentially, across the distribution of the sphere constant

The reason it gets harder and more power consuming the more you move towards theoretical limits, is because you are very literally pushing against yourself pushing ... Within the cyclical constant of the sphere and its dimensional spectrum

To push outside the physical constants of a planetary torus you were very literally created within, is a little like trying to push outside the sphere of your body, to look upon yourself

For the most part, science is oblivious to the cyclical nature of forces. Looking at things linearly, subject to the effects of the mechanism. Not the cause

To create a slipstream within a torus, you need to create a microcosm within the torus, which is harmonious to the parent sphere

This is why all the "orbs" are spherical

It is the only shape which ensures exact balance of all positive and negative forces, pressures, acceleration, braking, etc, in all directions

Any other shape, would be subject to directional (face) limitation, and things such as decay in optimal efficiency

To create a harmonious torus, the easiest way is using centrifugal displacement of a centrally rotating disk, with a 5/8 centripetal coefficient. Which gives a 1/2 return on all forces, positive and negative, in all directions, exponentially

This manifests as a positive/negative pulsing within the disk that equalises everything internal and external. Naturally and harmonically

The more you accelerate the disk, the greater the "potential" within it, which can be then be turned into instant acceleration, direction and braking, across the axis

Like creating a pocket of free space in the parent torus, that you move along within, without effecting the physics of said parent

Within the "bubble" of this sphere, forces such as as inertia are committed across the sphere as part of the vector exchange, so technically, there is no such effect. Meaning you would barely feel any movement

You also do not need any type of engine to power it

If you design it centrally distributed on the internal axis on top, and externally distributed on the bottom, across and axis with very particular weight and ratios, the rotation of the disk would run off the "gravity" of the parent sphere

This is much easier than we think, to the point where a simple version of it could be used on ships, trains, aircraft and even cars, that would make them capable of winding up to incredible speeds

Speeds, theoretically, as fast as the design of the rest of their framework could handle

There would be no "top gear". It would just keep winding up, getting as fast as the rest of its design would allow, to the atmospheric limit

The main consideration is within the ratios and distribution of weight

A very simple mechanical version of this, which is no more than a spinning disk of a particular weight, with free-spinning orbs inserted around the disk, could be used to cancel out inertia in directional facing vehicles, such as fighter jets

A few more bits of knowledge I can offer you?

Firstly, as far as I am aware, there is no such thing as "Gravity waves". This is a misunderstanding of the effect, being the cause

Gravity is the effect of a distortion in relative fields, cause by centrally distributed mass. The "waves" we see are a type of phase in directional physics, similar to what we perceive as time

What you are seeing is technically, more "time" waves, than they are "gravity 'waves

They are the cause of what makes them visible, within mass. Not the other way around



Lastly ...

When you look up at the universe, you are essentially looking at a super-massive physical body

What is described as "dark matter" is simply outside of ability to see and perceive, within the dimensions or our physical spectrum

Within the forest, you see the space between the trees. From outside the forest, you see only the mass of trees

If we were physically able to see what many describe as "dark matter", it would look like flesh and entrails in the sky

---

"I look above and see entrails in the sky"
~ Megadeth- Diadems

a reply to: Compendium

To creation a harmonious torus, the easiest way is using centrifugal displacement of a centrally rotating disk, with a 5/8 centripetal coefficient.

Does this mean that the center of mass of the rotating force is at 5/8 of its radius?

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: Compendium

To creation a harmonious torus, the easiest way is using centrifugal displacement of a centrally rotating disk, with a 5/8 centripetal coefficient.

Does this mean that the center of mass of the rotating force is at 5/8 of its radius?

Displaced at 5/8 the radius, yes

It creates a pulse, shifting between core, and outside radius, balanced in phase, to a 1/2 (alternating) return across the diameter

This creates a natural balance within the sphere, harmonic to the macrocosm (atmospheric) sphere

It will literal throb/pulse as it harmonises to the atmosphere, as the external counter-phase

After this, even the smallest bit of applied acceleration within the internal phase of the disk, acts as compression, which translates exponentially across to the external phase

Essentially, you gear the smaller sphere, using harmonious phase to the larger sphere. In this case the planet

So that small adjustments to the internal sphere, translate massively within the larger sphere

Easiest way to do it mechanically, is to have independently free-spinning orbs inset into the disk, like orbiting bodies

As long as the weight of the spinning disk, and the sum of the orbiting inset orbs set 5/8 from centre are identical, it will work

If the disk without the orbs weighs 50Kg exactly. The inset disks need collectively weigh 50Kg

There is a little more to getting optimal efficiency. Such as spacing and number of orbs, arc degrees of the inset holes (to carry optimal weight distribution), etc ...

But even the crudest version should work, as long as the design is perfectly balanced and weighted

a reply to: babalon1971

Sounds like a similar device to Peter Brock's Polarizer... which didnt work by most accounts.

Well according to Lazar, there's a gravity vaccuum in an ellipsoid shape around the outside of the craft, and a strong, directional gravitational force that is pointed in the direction it wants to go. This keeps a constant stream of forward inertia. The craft creates a gravity bubble and could basically be thought of as existing in its own bubble universe.
There wouldn't BE any g forces INSIDE the bubble while they are airborne.

I think anything that comes toward the craft is just gonna be whipped around the gravity displacement bubble and pop out the other end without being able to get near the actual craft.

But, gravity can hold in gasses and air, so they could maybe use that force to hold in a high voltage plasma field if they wanted to. Maybe the right kind of plasma burns super hot but doesn't emit light or color.

Hell, what if there's a gas that creates a cloaking effect when in plasma state? Wouldn't that be nifty?


a reply to: SouthernForkway26

Of course you can warp spacetime. That's exactly what planets do.
They push everything towards themselves because of their gravitational force.
Mass naturally does this. Hell, your body is warping spacetime as we speak, and moreso if you're a thicc boi.
Nice ouroboros though.

a reply to: Compendium