Evangelicals Rejecting Jesus Teachings as Being Too Liberal

a reply to: CoyoteAngels

the advantage of the hate, is it creates the opposite reaction, the graffiti here has a strong christian theme as the flex out of and back into belief has happened before many times, as strong as the current ideologies seem they all offer virtually zero safe guards or moral grounding thus end up burning themselves out which we are seeing with the inch by inch reclamation of societal safeguards, for children, women, the infirm, poor and the most vulnerable of all, the dying..

the last time we went through this was the 1930s when the only thing standing in the way of the liberal establishment implementing mass eugenics policies that mirrored those of nazi germany where those deemed far right and christian.

we see a similar liberal approach today only this time instead of mirroring nazi germany it tries to mirror the CCP..

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

I wouldn't be too worried because it just seems to be more political division. Evangelism has many branches and it appears a very small percentage of some of those branches will reject Jesus' core messages, such as turning the other cheek. These political leaning branches are considered to have 'baggage' and are viewed negatively by others.

Again, very low numbers compared to the total religious population in the U.S. and atheism is on the rise year over year.

Many evangelicals can speculate the reasons behind the negative reputation. Evangelical identity in the United States became associated with additional political baggage in recent years, as more supporters of President Donald Trump took on the label.

Back in 2020, National Association of Evangelicals president Walter Kim raised concerns about politicized perceptions of the faith, stating, “We are in a season in which the evangelical faith is being narrowly defined and misunderstood by many, with long-term ramifications for our gospel witness.”

“Too many, especially young people and people of color, have been alienated by the evangelical Christianity they have seen presented in public in recent years,” he said.

Evangelical institutions have continued to reckon with racism, sexism, and abuse, past and present. Some leaders have spoken of “ministry from the margins” as some traditional, conservative Christian stances on issues around marriage, gender, and family are falling out of favor in mainstream society. Plus, Christianity is aging and declining in the US as more leave the church or don’t follow their parents’ faith to begin with.

www.christianitytoday.com...

Maybe some of those particular church leaders don't understand Jesus' true meaning.

www.dralisoncook.com...#:~:text=When%20Jesus%20says%20to%20turn,is%20a%20demonstration%20of%20strength.

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES

originally posted by: pthena

Now my suspicion is that many who think themselves Christian may also be role-players. As such, earthly-minded hypocrites, would gladly assume the role of world power broker, or at the least, foot soldiers of the worldly power brokers. Therefore they will gladly fight to the death to secure a Christian dominant society, or endorse those fighters.

I have had my share of spiritual battles with forces I cannot claim to understand, and I have been at the mercy of very sadistic entities over the years, I won't get into the specifics, but there is nothing worse than feeling abandoned by God for me.

I just want to understand and hopefully one day see peac eon earth for all peaceful peoples and cultures, and end to war and poverty and an end to suffering.

I will not deny that I desire very much the promise of Heaven on Earth and the Kingdom Restored, and I see signs of such a world every day, people of various faiths and backgrounds all living peacefully and working together for a common shared goal.

That to me is Heaven. One doesn't need to be Christian exclusively, because God created All of Us.

Sometimes I dissociate from the news online, the trial and struggle in the world, the violence the war, the suffering and poverty because I don't neccecarily experience it in my own world as severely as others.

I look after the homeless, but I'm living subpoverty on disability benefits and rarely have material gains to help or assist as I'm barely making ends meet myself, but I try to be nice and helpful whenever possible. There are a lot of other groups in the area with more resources who step in where I cannot.

I am also aware of a great wickedness in the world right now, and I'm powerless against it.

Would I like to see these abuses purged?

Of course.

I would love and America where everyone had food and shelter, healthcare and the right to life.

I'm fighting for it, and am frequently called a socialist because of it.

But I digress and that's neither here nor there.

I have friends who would fall under the category of "subversives" but they are still learning who they are, I have friends who are gay, bisexual, transgender, wiccan, pagan, satanists, but they are kind and community oriented and many of them have told me how there are members of the community who just walk up to them and tell them they are goign to hell for who they are, or how they look.

I want no part of that kind of heaven.

I just worry because a lot of people these days professing loudly about their Christian Values hold anything but, and do no good works, instead squander their good fortune and worldly blessings and excess on their own self indulgence who seem they'd be more inclined to "wipe out" and exterminate anyone who didn't fit their aesthetic or worldview, or whom was percieved to be a drain on resources.

Targeting easily identified weaker targets is called scapegoating.

I grew up in that world, and I know how closeminded and ruthless these folks can be when they decide they've had enough.

It just breaks my heart.

Truly, a true Christian cannot ever possibly cede the possibility its possible to enter heaven without Christ, for all other religions require good works and to be good enough to enter heaven. That is not Christianity, for why then did Christ die if even a single person could enter heaven without Him. He died because it is impossible, thus absolutely necessary He had to die to save us, to humble Himself to be fully man and enter into time and be humiliated and killed on our sakes, willingly and do so without ever knowing sin, therefore only He earned Heaven, and through Him, we may also have eternal life and resurrection with God.

You believe Christ was a sacrifice for us, who's us exactly, you mean every person on Earth?

a reply to: GENERAL EYES

The evangelical and Freemasonry have been linked for a while. Billy Grahm was a Mason and he was with presidents from Carter to Trump. Share the values of self improvement but lack the anchoring teachings of Jesus. They rely more on the Kybalion and Hermeticism. Those teaching have been snuck into the church for years and many seminaries are tainted with those teaching.

I’d be curious to see how many Evangelicals are also Masons.

Jesus is a problem for both sides. Jesus has no trees to climb or rituals to prove one self. But their GOD, the idea the pursuit and the process is more important. Right now everyone trying to cling to a side and prove their loyalty. It’s reminds me about the sifting of the wheat idea in the Bible.

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas
a reply to: TTU77

Gay people don't enter heaven because of their psychology, there's no truth in them.

If there is no truth in them, are they saved? Is that what you are implying?

I'm not disagreeing, but perhaps we are using different terminology. Nor would I say they don't enter heaven because they refuse to repent of their sin, for nowhere in the bible does it ever say repent from your sin and believe on Jesus. It does say repent and believe on Jesus, but repent does not mean turn from sin, but change one's mind.

Otherwise, could not turning from sin be viewed as a work, and how can one turn from sin, when the Law proved humans can't, so Jesus had to die to fulfill the law. It's like say, do something that is impossible for you to do, to accept the gift was given to you because it was impossible for you to do. Ya see.

But, perhaps the truth you mention could be, if one repents and believes on the name of Jesus, abides in him through the word and thus in the vine, and thus producing fruit or perhaps the gift of godly sorrow upon repentance of the sin of sexual immorality (gayness), so they now, having believed and being sanctified, now show the fruit of the believe by repenting of the sin and they do so willingly, out of a love of holiness and rightousness, claiming the gift of freedom from sin. At this place, can the work be the fruit of believe and not the means of salvation.

Perhaps, Im being a bit pedantic here.

A heterosexual man or woman can be refused entry to heaven if they live a carnal life, it's not the default nature of a heterosexual human to be carnal but we can lose our way, homosexuals are carnal by nature because truth evades them, heterosexuals stray from the truth.

There's a phycological trait with homosexuals that locks them into a state of self, they perceive the world wholly from their perspective and it's fuelled by self-centredness, a homosexual teacher will teach to children that homosexuality is a normal human state because that teachers perceptions only extend as far as that teachers sense of self, much like a selfish child with no perceptions outside that of it's own existence.
Abstaining from homosexual sex isn't enough.

We have homosexuals because of fate, the god of the old testament in his wisdom created fate because it's unstoppable, it eliminates foresight, not even God The Father can prevent the inevitable that homosexuals are fated here in this realm, there's no fate in heaven I can tell you that.

a reply to: pthena

I'm not a Christian and I'm not well studied but John 3:12 came to my mind.

I often agree with Raggedyman in threads like these which would be the complete opposite of "rejecting Jesus because he's too liberal" and given the choice I'd rather approach life and others with a hippy or Buddhist approach. I reckon if Jesus was real he'd have carried himself in similar ways.

Why do I think that? Snippets of the bible here and there. His 40 days in the desert, his various miracles, chucking about tables and reappearing severed ears etc etc.

Now my suspicion is that many who think themselves Christian may also be role-players. As such, earthly-minded hypocrites, would gladly assume the role of world power broker, or at the least, foot soldiers of the worldly power brokers. Therefore they will gladly fight to the death to secure a Christian dominant society, or endorse those fighters.

I have a habit of wanting to understand the motivation and inspiration for the way people act, that intent desires tend to mustur up... Some see a design to it. All I see is neglect and a reversing of the most basic yet wholesome roles that have always been around. The faithless and loveless using their time to preach is probably one of the fundamentally saddest things to encounter. To put it simply there's no hope in extremism because "hope" is the thing with feathers, badly quoting a poem there..

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES

originally posted by: pthena

Now my suspicion is that many who think themselves Christian may also be role-players. As such, earthly-minded hypocrites, would gladly assume the role of world power broker, or at the least, foot soldiers of the worldly power brokers. Therefore they will gladly fight to the death to secure a Christian dominant society, or endorse those fighters.

I have had my share of spiritual battles with forces I cannot claim to understand, and I have been at the mercy of very sadistic entities over the years, I won't get into the specifics, but there is nothing worse than feeling abandoned by God for me.

I just want to understand and hopefully one day see peac eon earth for all peaceful peoples and cultures, and end to war and poverty and an end to suffering.

I will not deny that I desire very much the promise of Heaven on Earth and the Kingdom Restored, and I see signs of such a world every day, people of various faiths and backgrounds all living peacefully and working together for a common shared goal.

That to me is Heaven. One doesn't need to be Christian exclusively, because God created All of Us.

Sometimes I dissociate from the news online, the trial and struggle in the world, the violence the war, the suffering and poverty because I don't neccecarily experience it in my own world as severely as others.

I look after the homeless, but I'm living subpoverty on disability benefits and rarely have material gains to help or assist as I'm barely making ends meet myself, but I try to be nice and helpful whenever possible. There are a lot of other groups in the area with more resources who step in where I cannot.

I am also aware of a great wickedness in the world right now, and I'm powerless against it.

Would I like to see these abuses purged?

Of course.

I would love and America where everyone had food and shelter, healthcare and the right to life.

I'm fighting for it, and am frequently called a socialist because of it.

But I digress and that's neither here nor there.

I have friends who would fall under the category of "subversives" but they are still learning who they are, I have friends who are gay, bisexual, transgender, wiccan, pagan, satanists, but they are kind and community oriented and many of them have told me how there are members of the community who just walk up to them and tell them they are goign to hell for who they are, or how they look.

I want no part of that kind of heaven.

I just worry because a lot of people these days professing loudly about their Christian Values hold anything but, and do no good works, instead squander their good fortune and worldly blessings and excess on their own self indulgence who seem they'd be more inclined to "wipe out" and exterminate anyone who didn't fit their aesthetic or worldview, or whom was percieved to be a drain on resources.

Targeting easily identified weaker targets is called scapegoating.

I grew up in that world, and I know how closeminded and ruthless these folks can be when they decide they've had enough.

It just breaks my heart.

Truly, a true Christian cannot ever possibly cede the possibility its possible to enter heaven without Christ, for all other religions require good works and to be good enough to enter heaven. That is not Christianity, for why then did Christ die if even a single person could enter heaven without Him. He died because it is impossible, thus absolutely necessary He had to die to save us, to humble Himself to be fully man and enter into time and be humiliated and killed on our sakes, willingly and do so without ever knowing sin, therefore only He earned Heaven, and through Him, we may also have eternal life and resurrection with God.

You believe Christ was a sacrifice for us, who's us exactly, you mean every person on Earth?

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

a reply to: Observationalist

if yuo come at it from that angel the entire upper echelons of the Anglican church are evangelical most notably they've been exporting the HTB* vision since welby was enthroned as the archbishop of canterbury..

HTB or Holy Trinity Brompton is the lead evangelical church in the uk its alpha program has been exported to 160 countries, the alpha program is key leg of build back better and the new normal.. probably more important than wef or even that klaus fellow..

in that vein given the leadership of the church king charlie3 is an evangelical king, thus any links to the other dodgy handshake groups would be in there.

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES

originally posted by: pthena

Now my suspicion is that many who think themselves Christian may also be role-players. As such, earthly-minded hypocrites, would gladly assume the role of world power broker, or at the least, foot soldiers of the worldly power brokers. Therefore they will gladly fight to the death to secure a Christian dominant society, or endorse those fighters.

I have had my share of spiritual battles with forces I cannot claim to understand, and I have been at the mercy of very sadistic entities over the years, I won't get into the specifics, but there is nothing worse than feeling abandoned by God for me.

I just want to understand and hopefully one day see peac eon earth for all peaceful peoples and cultures, and end to war and poverty and an end to suffering.

I will not deny that I desire very much the promise of Heaven on Earth and the Kingdom Restored, and I see signs of such a world every day, people of various faiths and backgrounds all living peacefully and working together for a common shared goal.

That to me is Heaven. One doesn't need to be Christian exclusively, because God created All of Us.

Sometimes I dissociate from the news online, the trial and struggle in the world, the violence the war, the suffering and poverty because I don't neccecarily experience it in my own world as severely as others.

I look after the homeless, but I'm living subpoverty on disability benefits and rarely have material gains to help or assist as I'm barely making ends meet myself, but I try to be nice and helpful whenever possible. There are a lot of other groups in the area with more resources who step in where I cannot.

I am also aware of a great wickedness in the world right now, and I'm powerless against it.

Would I like to see these abuses purged?

Of course.

I would love and America where everyone had food and shelter, healthcare and the right to life.

I'm fighting for it, and am frequently called a socialist because of it.

But I digress and that's neither here nor there.

I have friends who would fall under the category of "subversives" but they are still learning who they are, I have friends who are gay, bisexual, transgender, wiccan, pagan, satanists, but they are kind and community oriented and many of them have told me how there are members of the community who just walk up to them and tell them they are goign to hell for who they are, or how they look.

I want no part of that kind of heaven.

I just worry because a lot of people these days professing loudly about their Christian Values hold anything but, and do no good works, instead squander their good fortune and worldly blessings and excess on their own self indulgence who seem they'd be more inclined to "wipe out" and exterminate anyone who didn't fit their aesthetic or worldview, or whom was percieved to be a drain on resources.

Targeting easily identified weaker targets is called scapegoating.

I grew up in that world, and I know how closeminded and ruthless these folks can be when they decide they've had enough.

It just breaks my heart.

Truly, a true Christian cannot ever possibly cede the possibility its possible to enter heaven without Christ, for all other religions require good works and to be good enough to enter heaven. That is not Christianity, for why then did Christ die if even a single person could enter heaven without Him. He died because it is impossible, thus absolutely necessary He had to die to save us, to humble Himself to be fully man and enter into time and be humiliated and killed on our sakes, willingly and do so without ever knowing sin, therefore only He earned Heaven, and through Him, we may also have eternal life and resurrection with God.

You believe Christ was a sacrifice for us, who's us exactly, you mean every person on Earth?

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

So His sacrifice was only for those who believe in Him?

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES

originally posted by: pthena

Now my suspicion is that many who think themselves Christian may also be role-players. As such, earthly-minded hypocrites, would gladly assume the role of world power broker, or at the least, foot soldiers of the worldly power brokers. Therefore they will gladly fight to the death to secure a Christian dominant society, or endorse those fighters.

I have had my share of spiritual battles with forces I cannot claim to understand, and I have been at the mercy of very sadistic entities over the years, I won't get into the specifics, but there is nothing worse than feeling abandoned by God for me.

I just want to understand and hopefully one day see peac eon earth for all peaceful peoples and cultures, and end to war and poverty and an end to suffering.

I will not deny that I desire very much the promise of Heaven on Earth and the Kingdom Restored, and I see signs of such a world every day, people of various faiths and backgrounds all living peacefully and working together for a common shared goal.

That to me is Heaven. One doesn't need to be Christian exclusively, because God created All of Us.

Sometimes I dissociate from the news online, the trial and struggle in the world, the violence the war, the suffering and poverty because I don't neccecarily experience it in my own world as severely as others.

I look after the homeless, but I'm living subpoverty on disability benefits and rarely have material gains to help or assist as I'm barely making ends meet myself, but I try to be nice and helpful whenever possible. There are a lot of other groups in the area with more resources who step in where I cannot.

I am also aware of a great wickedness in the world right now, and I'm powerless against it.

Would I like to see these abuses purged?

Of course.

I would love and America where everyone had food and shelter, healthcare and the right to life.

I'm fighting for it, and am frequently called a socialist because of it.

But I digress and that's neither here nor there.

I have friends who would fall under the category of "subversives" but they are still learning who they are, I have friends who are gay, bisexual, transgender, wiccan, pagan, satanists, but they are kind and community oriented and many of them have told me how there are members of the community who just walk up to them and tell them they are goign to hell for who they are, or how they look.

I want no part of that kind of heaven.

I just worry because a lot of people these days professing loudly about their Christian Values hold anything but, and do no good works, instead squander their good fortune and worldly blessings and excess on their own self indulgence who seem they'd be more inclined to "wipe out" and exterminate anyone who didn't fit their aesthetic or worldview, or whom was percieved to be a drain on resources.

Targeting easily identified weaker targets is called scapegoating.

I grew up in that world, and I know how closeminded and ruthless these folks can be when they decide they've had enough.

It just breaks my heart.

Truly, a true Christian cannot ever possibly cede the possibility its possible to enter heaven without Christ, for all other religions require good works and to be good enough to enter heaven. That is not Christianity, for why then did Christ die if even a single person could enter heaven without Him. He died because it is impossible, thus absolutely necessary He had to die to save us, to humble Himself to be fully man and enter into time and be humiliated and killed on our sakes, willingly and do so without ever knowing sin, therefore only He earned Heaven, and through Him, we may also have eternal life and resurrection with God.

You believe Christ was a sacrifice for us, who's us exactly, you mean every person on Earth?

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

So His sacrifice was only for those who believe in Him?

What is the point of your question? If you have something to say then say it.

What Christian would say that the blood of Christ is worth less than the entire universe?

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES

originally posted by: pthena

Now my suspicion is that many who think themselves Christian may also be role-players. As such, earthly-minded hypocrites, would gladly assume the role of world power broker, or at the least, foot soldiers of the worldly power brokers. Therefore they will gladly fight to the death to secure a Christian dominant society, or endorse those fighters.

I have had my share of spiritual battles with forces I cannot claim to understand, and I have been at the mercy of very sadistic entities over the years, I won't get into the specifics, but there is nothing worse than feeling abandoned by God for me.

I just want to understand and hopefully one day see peac eon earth for all peaceful peoples and cultures, and end to war and poverty and an end to suffering.

I will not deny that I desire very much the promise of Heaven on Earth and the Kingdom Restored, and I see signs of such a world every day, people of various faiths and backgrounds all living peacefully and working together for a common shared goal.

That to me is Heaven. One doesn't need to be Christian exclusively, because God created All of Us.

Sometimes I dissociate from the news online, the trial and struggle in the world, the violence the war, the suffering and poverty because I don't neccecarily experience it in my own world as severely as others.

I look after the homeless, but I'm living subpoverty on disability benefits and rarely have material gains to help or assist as I'm barely making ends meet myself, but I try to be nice and helpful whenever possible. There are a lot of other groups in the area with more resources who step in where I cannot.

I am also aware of a great wickedness in the world right now, and I'm powerless against it.

Would I like to see these abuses purged?

Of course.

I would love and America where everyone had food and shelter, healthcare and the right to life.

I'm fighting for it, and am frequently called a socialist because of it.

But I digress and that's neither here nor there.

I have friends who would fall under the category of "subversives" but they are still learning who they are, I have friends who are gay, bisexual, transgender, wiccan, pagan, satanists, but they are kind and community oriented and many of them have told me how there are members of the community who just walk up to them and tell them they are goign to hell for who they are, or how they look.

I want no part of that kind of heaven.

I just worry because a lot of people these days professing loudly about their Christian Values hold anything but, and do no good works, instead squander their good fortune and worldly blessings and excess on their own self indulgence who seem they'd be more inclined to "wipe out" and exterminate anyone who didn't fit their aesthetic or worldview, or whom was percieved to be a drain on resources.

Targeting easily identified weaker targets is called scapegoating.

I grew up in that world, and I know how closeminded and ruthless these folks can be when they decide they've had enough.

It just breaks my heart.

Truly, a true Christian cannot ever possibly cede the possibility its possible to enter heaven without Christ, for all other religions require good works and to be good enough to enter heaven. That is not Christianity, for why then did Christ die if even a single person could enter heaven without Him. He died because it is impossible, thus absolutely necessary He had to die to save us, to humble Himself to be fully man and enter into time and be humiliated and killed on our sakes, willingly and do so without ever knowing sin, therefore only He earned Heaven, and through Him, we may also have eternal life and resurrection with God.

You believe Christ was a sacrifice for us, who's us exactly, you mean every person on Earth?

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

So His sacrifice was only for those who believe in Him?

What is the point of your question? If you have something to say then say it.

What Christian would say that the blood of Christ is worth less than the entire universe?

My point is Christ didn't die for all the evil that's born into this world, Christ isn't for everyone, it's why He spoke in parables, when He was in the flesh the good loved Him, evil hated Him and the child feared Him because of who He was and is.
Who Christ is, is the appeal not His sacrifice.

I think I see the point you are trying to make. If you'd like, please elaborate further if you can.

My point of view is this. Christ did die for all the evil born into the world, because we are all born sinful in sin due to the fall man in the garden. Christ certainly did not die for good people for there is none good, not one, only the Father is good. Christ spoke in parables perhaps for many reasons unknown to us, not because His offer isn't opened to everyone. He followed and obeyed the will of the Father according to His plan of redemption. Those who believed would get the message, those who don't, whose hearts are hardened would not. The result of this was the crucifixion and resurrection and the bringing in of the gentiles fulfilling God's plan and prophesy since the OT.

Who Christ is, is the appeal and not His sacrifice. I'm not sure I understand your point in its entirety, or why you felt the need to say this to me in response to my original reply. How does it relate?

The Gospel is about the sacrifice, for that is the power of God unto salvation. It's like you are asking or trying to make a distinction between what is more important, who Jesus is, or His sacrifice. Why?

We don't or shouldn't worship the bible, but God himself who wrote and created the bible. That's a good point to keep in mind but I'm not sure if its a salvific issue.

Christ is also what makes heaven, heaven, and not so much eternal life ever apart from Him. Again, wonderful to understand and appreciate, but pray tell more on the point you wish to make.

I'd like to refer you to hear

Precise theological thinking is a good thing. We are called to be students of the Word (2 Timothy 2:15). But on this point, it seems that most people follow a theological system to get to their answer, rather than the clear Word of God. If it were not for theological systems (namely, Calvinism and Arminianism), the question of whom Jesus died for would probably never come up—but it has come up! One side says that, if Christ did not die for all, then there can be no genuine offer of salvation. The other side says that, if Christ died for some who will never be saved, then His death in some sense fails to accomplish its purpose. Either way, there seems to be an attack upon God’s character or Christ’s work—either God’s love is limited or Jesus’ power is limited. This presents an unnecessary dilemma and creates a tension where none need exist. We know that God’s love is infinite (Psalm 107:1) and that Christ’s power is infinite (Colossians 1:16–17). The dilemma is a false one of our own making.

In short, the offer of salvation is universal—to all who will believe (Romans 10:11, 13). We also know that, regardless of how broad Christ’s atonement is, it is limited in some respect—it is effective only for those who believe (John 3:18).

John 10 provides more insight into the issue of whom Jesus died for. In that passage we see that Christ died for His sheep (John 10:11, 15). Also, all who are His sheep will come to Him (verses 4 and 27), and they are kept secure in Christ (verses 28–30). However, when we share the gospel, we don’t try to “pre-screen” the hearers of the message. We don’t delve into who are the elect or for whom Jesus may or may not have died. Those discussions would distract from the goal of evangelism. When presenting the gospel, we simply say, “Jesus died for your sin, and He rose again from the dead. His death is sufficient to pay for your sins if you will put your faith in Him.” This is a biblically accurate statement, and it avoids trying to get too specific. The preaching of the apostles in the New Testament doesn’t try to cut it more finely than that.

www.gotquestions.org...

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES

originally posted by: pthena

Now my suspicion is that many who think themselves Christian may also be role-players. As such, earthly-minded hypocrites, would gladly assume the role of world power broker, or at the least, foot soldiers of the worldly power brokers. Therefore they will gladly fight to the death to secure a Christian dominant society, or endorse those fighters.

I have had my share of spiritual battles with forces I cannot claim to understand, and I have been at the mercy of very sadistic entities over the years, I won't get into the specifics, but there is nothing worse than feeling abandoned by God for me.

I just want to understand and hopefully one day see peac eon earth for all peaceful peoples and cultures, and end to war and poverty and an end to suffering.

I will not deny that I desire very much the promise of Heaven on Earth and the Kingdom Restored, and I see signs of such a world every day, people of various faiths and backgrounds all living peacefully and working together for a common shared goal.

That to me is Heaven. One doesn't need to be Christian exclusively, because God created All of Us.

Sometimes I dissociate from the news online, the trial and struggle in the world, the violence the war, the suffering and poverty because I don't neccecarily experience it in my own world as severely as others.

I look after the homeless, but I'm living subpoverty on disability benefits and rarely have material gains to help or assist as I'm barely making ends meet myself, but I try to be nice and helpful whenever possible. There are a lot of other groups in the area with more resources who step in where I cannot.

I am also aware of a great wickedness in the world right now, and I'm powerless against it.

Would I like to see these abuses purged?

Of course.

I would love and America where everyone had food and shelter, healthcare and the right to life.

I'm fighting for it, and am frequently called a socialist because of it.

But I digress and that's neither here nor there.

I have friends who would fall under the category of "subversives" but they are still learning who they are, I have friends who are gay, bisexual, transgender, wiccan, pagan, satanists, but they are kind and community oriented and many of them have told me how there are members of the community who just walk up to them and tell them they are goign to hell for who they are, or how they look.

I want no part of that kind of heaven.

I just worry because a lot of people these days professing loudly about their Christian Values hold anything but, and do no good works, instead squander their good fortune and worldly blessings and excess on their own self indulgence who seem they'd be more inclined to "wipe out" and exterminate anyone who didn't fit their aesthetic or worldview, or whom was percieved to be a drain on resources.

Targeting easily identified weaker targets is called scapegoating.

I grew up in that world, and I know how closeminded and ruthless these folks can be when they decide they've had enough.

It just breaks my heart.

Truly, a true Christian cannot ever possibly cede the possibility its possible to enter heaven without Christ, for all other religions require good works and to be good enough to enter heaven. That is not Christianity, for why then did Christ die if even a single person could enter heaven without Him. He died because it is impossible, thus absolutely necessary He had to die to save us, to humble Himself to be fully man and enter into time and be humiliated and killed on our sakes, willingly and do so without ever knowing sin, therefore only He earned Heaven, and through Him, we may also have eternal life and resurrection with God.

You believe Christ was a sacrifice for us, who's us exactly, you mean every person on Earth?

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

So His sacrifice was only for those who believe in Him?

What is the point of your question? If you have something to say then say it.

What Christian would say that the blood of Christ is worth less than the entire universe?

My point is Christ didn't die for all the evil that's born into this world, Christ isn't for everyone, it's why He spoke in parables, when He was in the flesh the good loved Him, evil hated Him and the child feared Him because of who He was and is.
Who Christ is, is the appeal not His sacrifice.

I think I see the point you are trying to make. If you'd like, please elaborate further if you can.

My point of view is this. Christ did die for all the evil born into the world, because we are all born sinful in sin due to the fall man in the garden. Christ certainly did not die for good people for there is none good, not one, only the Father is good. Christ spoke in parables perhaps for many reasons unknown to us, not because His offer isn't opened to everyone. He followed and obeyed the will of the Father according to His plan of redemption. Those who believed would get the message, those who don't, whose hearts are hardened would not. The result of this was the crucifixion and resurrection and the bringing in of the gentiles fulfilling God's plan and prophesy since the OT.

Who Christ is, is the appeal and not His sacrifice. I'm not sure I understand this point, or why you felt the need to say this to me in response to my original reply.

We don't or shouldn't worship the bible, but God himself who wrote and created the bible. That's a good point to keep in mind but I'm not sure if its a salvific issue.

Christ is also what makes heaven, heaven, and not so much eternal life ever apart from Him. Again, wonderful to understand and appreciate, but pray tell more on the point you wish to make.

We are not born sinners we are born into sin, the same as if I threw you into the sea, you're going to get wet no matter what you do. Evil is evil and has no place with Christ, Christ is naturally hated by evil because He's the opposite of what evil is and evil is a part of this world. He could not have died for our sins for this reason. There is a truth to this place that most can't see and because of this most believe that God created this place as a school for our souls then sends His son to teach us to ignore and have nothing to do with it and that The Father will lead us from the temptation and evil He created?

Also Christs resurrection, He raised the dead when He lived so what more proof does anyone need that Christ is life, life eternal.

a reply to: RAY1990


That's Emily Dickinson's "Hope" is the thing with feathers.

I like that. Thank you.

too many layers to be peeled away...
Jesus welcomes the Martyr whose blood letting satisfies a 'Christian Warrior' epitaph...directly beneath the dead Prophets & Saints whom rank as 'Elects'

Your shedding-of-blood gets redemption-from-the=cross not no feeble declaration of devotion at the live-or-die moment... many of the 'Church Body' will find themselves as merely chopped up mixture of organic strands of life sustaining molecules and DNA or Protein strands which are from other 'believers' at their demise time...

'caught up in the cloud' : more exactly---- the body of faithful will do Gods work by becoming the organic molecules-of-life by being the PanSpermia mixture of proteins/acids which Jesus supernaturally separates from the human and transfers to the awesome Galaly wide clusters of Molecular gas clouds---- and continue creation with forever more unique lifeform on former 'dead' planets....

smile

Greetings GE,
Strange times we live. This is what I have heard and surmise:

1. The battle of light vs dark will continue until 2030.
2. As more light exposes the darkness/evil, the evil will viciously fight back.
3. The dark ones know their time is limited and they are trying to destroy all of Gods creation...literally flipping off God.
4. Most of our politicians probably need to go cuz seems none of them are fit for the battle...and that will become more apparent.
5. I believe a update to the Bible is called for, clarity and guidance on certain issues surely exist but we should also get some transparency on the whole Bible editing process.

Those of us left after 2030 will face extreme tests for about 3 years. After that, we will build back better, for real. We might be set back 100 years, but we will not be forsaken.

the article title is misleading. this is the opinion of a single disgruntled church official.

who presumably knows that criticizing President Trump is the best way to get the media to like him.

we ARE called to be 'Spiritual Warriors' but that does not mean we take up swords and fight physically, just the opposite.

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES

originally posted by: pthena

Now my suspicion is that many who think themselves Christian may also be role-players. As such, earthly-minded hypocrites, would gladly assume the role of world power broker, or at the least, foot soldiers of the worldly power brokers. Therefore they will gladly fight to the death to secure a Christian dominant society, or endorse those fighters.

I have had my share of spiritual battles with forces I cannot claim to understand, and I have been at the mercy of very sadistic entities over the years, I won't get into the specifics, but there is nothing worse than feeling abandoned by God for me.

I just want to understand and hopefully one day see peac eon earth for all peaceful peoples and cultures, and end to war and poverty and an end to suffering.

I will not deny that I desire very much the promise of Heaven on Earth and the Kingdom Restored, and I see signs of such a world every day, people of various faiths and backgrounds all living peacefully and working together for a common shared goal.

That to me is Heaven. One doesn't need to be Christian exclusively, because God created All of Us.

Sometimes I dissociate from the news online, the trial and struggle in the world, the violence the war, the suffering and poverty because I don't neccecarily experience it in my own world as severely as others.

I look after the homeless, but I'm living subpoverty on disability benefits and rarely have material gains to help or assist as I'm barely making ends meet myself, but I try to be nice and helpful whenever possible. There are a lot of other groups in the area with more resources who step in where I cannot.

I am also aware of a great wickedness in the world right now, and I'm powerless against it.

Would I like to see these abuses purged?

Of course.

I would love and America where everyone had food and shelter, healthcare and the right to life.

I'm fighting for it, and am frequently called a socialist because of it.

But I digress and that's neither here nor there.

I have friends who would fall under the category of "subversives" but they are still learning who they are, I have friends who are gay, bisexual, transgender, wiccan, pagan, satanists, but they are kind and community oriented and many of them have told me how there are members of the community who just walk up to them and tell them they are goign to hell for who they are, or how they look.

I want no part of that kind of heaven.

I just worry because a lot of people these days professing loudly about their Christian Values hold anything but, and do no good works, instead squander their good fortune and worldly blessings and excess on their own self indulgence who seem they'd be more inclined to "wipe out" and exterminate anyone who didn't fit their aesthetic or worldview, or whom was percieved to be a drain on resources.

Targeting easily identified weaker targets is called scapegoating.

I grew up in that world, and I know how closeminded and ruthless these folks can be when they decide they've had enough.

It just breaks my heart.

Truly, a true Christian cannot ever possibly cede the possibility its possible to enter heaven without Christ, for all other religions require good works and to be good enough to enter heaven. That is not Christianity, for why then did Christ die if even a single person could enter heaven without Him. He died because it is impossible, thus absolutely necessary He had to die to save us, to humble Himself to be fully man and enter into time and be humiliated and killed on our sakes, willingly and do so without ever knowing sin, therefore only He earned Heaven, and through Him, we may also have eternal life and resurrection with God.

You believe Christ was a sacrifice for us, who's us exactly, you mean every person on Earth?

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

So His sacrifice was only for those who believe in Him?

What is the point of your question? If you have something to say then say it.

What Christian would say that the blood of Christ is worth less than the entire universe?

My point is Christ didn't die for all the evil that's born into this world, Christ isn't for everyone, it's why He spoke in parables, when He was in the flesh the good loved Him, evil hated Him and the child feared Him because of who He was and is.
Who Christ is, is the appeal not His sacrifice.

Jesus did die for the evil, the broken, sick and poor, Jesus died for those religion rejected.
That’s why the religious and powerful executed Jesus, Jesus was not for the strong, good and powerful
The appeal is not the sacrifice, the appeal is the love that He extends from God, the Father, a paternal fatherly love, the love of caring father who puts his children in a position of growth and nurture

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: Cwantas

originally posted by: TTU77

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES

originally posted by: pthena

Now my suspicion is that many who think themselves Christian may also be role-players. As such, earthly-minded hypocrites, would gladly assume the role of world power broker, or at the least, foot soldiers of the worldly power brokers. Therefore they will gladly fight to the death to secure a Christian dominant society, or endorse those fighters.

I have had my share of spiritual battles with forces I cannot claim to understand, and I have been at the mercy of very sadistic entities over the years, I won't get into the specifics, but there is nothing worse than feeling abandoned by God for me.

I just want to understand and hopefully one day see peac eon earth for all peaceful peoples and cultures, and end to war and poverty and an end to suffering.

I will not deny that I desire very much the promise of Heaven on Earth and the Kingdom Restored, and I see signs of such a world every day, people of various faiths and backgrounds all living peacefully and working together for a common shared goal.

That to me is Heaven. One doesn't need to be Christian exclusively, because God created All of Us.

Sometimes I dissociate from the news online, the trial and struggle in the world, the violence the war, the suffering and poverty because I don't neccecarily experience it in my own world as severely as others.

I look after the homeless, but I'm living subpoverty on disability benefits and rarely have material gains to help or assist as I'm barely making ends meet myself, but I try to be nice and helpful whenever possible. There are a lot of other groups in the area with more resources who step in where I cannot.

I am also aware of a great wickedness in the world right now, and I'm powerless against it.

Would I like to see these abuses purged?

Of course.

I would love and America where everyone had food and shelter, healthcare and the right to life.

I'm fighting for it, and am frequently called a socialist because of it.

But I digress and that's neither here nor there.

I have friends who would fall under the category of "subversives" but they are still learning who they are, I have friends who are gay, bisexual, transgender, wiccan, pagan, satanists, but they are kind and community oriented and many of them have told me how there are members of the community who just walk up to them and tell them they are goign to hell for who they are, or how they look.

I want no part of that kind of heaven.

I just worry because a lot of people these days professing loudly about their Christian Values hold anything but, and do no good works, instead squander their good fortune and worldly blessings and excess on their own self indulgence who seem they'd be more inclined to "wipe out" and exterminate anyone who didn't fit their aesthetic or worldview, or whom was percieved to be a drain on resources.

Targeting easily identified weaker targets is called scapegoating.

I grew up in that world, and I know how closeminded and ruthless these folks can be when they decide they've had enough.

It just breaks my heart.

Truly, a true Christian cannot ever possibly cede the possibility its possible to enter heaven without Christ, for all other religions require good works and to be good enough to enter heaven. That is not Christianity, for why then did Christ die if even a single person could enter heaven without Him. He died because it is impossible, thus absolutely necessary He had to die to save us, to humble Himself to be fully man and enter into time and be humiliated and killed on our sakes, willingly and do so without ever knowing sin, therefore only He earned Heaven, and through Him, we may also have eternal life and resurrection with God.

You believe Christ was a sacrifice for us, who's us exactly, you mean every person on Earth?

John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

So His sacrifice was only for those who believe in Him?

What is the point of your question? If you have something to say then say it.

What Christian would say that the blood of Christ is worth less than the entire universe?

My point is Christ didn't die for all the evil that's born into this world, Christ isn't for everyone, it's why He spoke in parables, when He was in the flesh the good loved Him, evil hated Him and the child feared Him because of who He was and is.
Who Christ is, is the appeal not His sacrifice.

Jesus did die for the evil, the broken, sick and poor, Jesus died for those religion rejected.
That’s why the religious and powerful executed Jesus, Jesus was not for the strong, good and powerful
The appeal is not the sacrifice, the appeal is the love that He extends from God, the Father, a paternal fatherly love, the love of caring father who puts his children in a position of growth and nurture

Jesus died because He was foolishly murdered by the evil that's default unto this world. What Christ preached while He lived should be your focus not the superstition written into the bible after His death. The bible was written over three hundred years after His death, enough time for the essence of who Christ really was to be lost.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
Evangelicans are rejecting "Liberal" teachings of Jesus

Another sign of the End Times.

As a Christian myself, I'm confused.

I walk the Path of Peace and Charity, Tolerance and Love.

It is not my path to make myself The Hand of God or to carry out his Judgement.

Maybe it's not my calling to be a Fierce Warrior.

I'm a little worried, because if it is the End Times and Judgement Day coming to fruition, why are they only going after the groups they don't like and letting the strong and greedy have their way with the Nation?

I'm not saying we aren't seeing a rise in violence, bad behavior and perversions, but I don't think these people are going to eradicate the wicked, I just think they'r going to go after and target the people and groups they don't like, and that flies in the face of everything I was raised to believe and fight for.

Where is this leading us?

Is anyone else concerned?

Is this the work and subtle hand of the Antichrist stirringup dissent and creating chaos and strife?

Survival of the fittest?

Is this a good thing or a bad thing, or something that we are fated to endure as part of the plan?

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

You say you’re walking the path of tolerance, so why can’t you tolerate someone else’s belief? This seems more about politics than anything smh