Physicist Michio Kaku says digital immortality is 'within reach'

a reply to: StoutBroux

It's like the scientists think others would be interested in our measly lives.

It's our individuality that's of interest, everybody is different if still somewhat a product of society.

Put it this way if the universe turns out to be holographic, or to be more precise, if the holographic principle turns out to hold any weight.

Then somebody, or something, is interested in our measly lives, even if it's just some future iteration of ourselves in another reality.

a reply to: olaru12

Digital Soul...interesting concept!

Surely we are not that boolean?

There is some speculation that our soul, or essence, emanates from the quantum realm.

And that our brains are nothing more than analog computers of sorts, that run the software(poor comparison) that amounts to our consciousness.

Again if the universe does turn out to have a holographic component to existence that may very well make a modicum of sense.

originally posted by: schuyler
But if you are willing to entertain the idea that consciousness expresses itself through the brain and body, but does not come from the brain or body itself, a whole lot of things can be explained with some clarity. This does not mean God or Jesus, but it does admit to another realm that is not easily found with scientific instruments. It may be possible to construct a machine that could imitate the brain well enough to accept consciousness. But that does not imply that the brain IS consciousness. Scientists cannot admit this possibility, and this leads to them altogether missing the point.

Actually, the current trend of idealism(idealism being the metaphysical claim that everything is mental, or consciousness) suggests that my brain and more generally my body is what my consciousness looks like when seen from outside of it. In other words, my brain doesn't create consciousness, it isn't either some type of tv set like in your anecdote that receives or hosts some form of mental processes, but it is itself consciousness, it is the image of it, its appearance.

So the universe in which we live would in reality be 100% made of mental stuff, of consciousness. Everything would be a mental process, whether it's me or you or a mountain or dust.

I like this quote from a physicist, Andrei Linde:

Let us remember that our knowledge of the world begins not with matter but with perceptions. I know for sure that my pain exists, my ‘green’ exists, and my ‘sweet’ exists … everything else is a theory. Later we find out that our perceptions obey some laws, which can be most conveniently formulated if we assume that there is some underlying reality beyond our perceptions. This model of material world obeying laws of physics is so successful that soon we forget about our starting point and say that matter is the only reality, and perceptions are only helpful for its description.

So actually what is called matter would just be an idea, a useful clutch that we use to formulate and categorize the world.

Here is a series of courses on the subject:
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: gosseyn

Maybe we are all the likes of Boltzmann's brains, i mean statistically and all that jazz.



en.wikipedia.org...

"Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.”-Acts 17:31.

There is no need of science to find everlasting life. Jehovah God has guaranteed it to all who exercise faith in the ransom sacrifice of his son.

Here is something to think about. God has always existed. But what was the first creation by God? The Bible says it was his son, known to us since the gospel times as Jesus Christ. He is the only-begotten, and the first-born of all creation. He was the very first creation, and the only direct creation by Jehovah God. All other things have been created through him (that is Jesus) and for him (that is Jesus.)

Now knowing this, that Jesus is the first creation, how old is he? Of course God is beyond measuring in years, as he never had a beginning, and is called the King of Eternity. But Jesus Christ, being Jehovah's firstborn and only-begotten son, has to be older than our universe. And scientists say our universe is 13.8 billion years old. So Jesus, if scientists are to be believed, is at least that old.

If Jehovah God could raise Jesus Christ from the grave, from his sleep in death, and return to him all his memories of that existence he had prior to dying, then it is a very easy thing to do the same for any human sleeping in death. Thus the resurrection is an assured hope. The assurance was given when he rose Jesus Christ from the dead. No matter how many humans may be lying asleep in death, in the "memorial tombs" of Jehovah God's memory, it is a very simple task for him to make a body new for them and return the life force of that person with all of its original personality and memory, and experiences.

This is a reality, and truth. It will happen:

"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me."-John 5:28-30.

Resurrection of the dead is an assured hope.

a reply to: randomuser

There is no need of science to find everlasting life. Jehovah God has guaranteed it to all who exercise faith in the ransom sacrifice of his son.

So what about the countless millions that came before?

What happens to their immortal souls?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: randomuser

There is no need of science to find everlasting life. Jehovah God has guaranteed it to all who exercise faith in the ransom sacrifice of his son.

So what about the countless millions that came before?

What happens to their immortal souls?

Millions who came before Jesus came to earth? They have the same hope. Many have never known about the true God Jehovah, and many more have never been able to exercise faith in Jesus Christ, as they never knew he existed, either because they lived before he came to earth, were not told the promises given to the nation of Israel at that time, or have lived in darkness before the spreading of the good news that is now being done in the entire inhabited earth. If you notice that last scripture I quoted from has Jesus saying there are two resurrections. The righteous to a resurrection of life, and the unrighteous to a resurrection of judgement. But that is not a bad thing. That simply means that they will be resurrected, taught the truth, and then judged on how they react to the truth. Everyone who has died has been acquitted of sin, and the wages of sin is death. So that is not talking about them being raised from the dead to answer for crimes in their previous life. Rather they will get life anew, and an opportunity to get their names written in the book of life, with an eternal future as the reward of righteousness.

As for immortality and what it really is and who really receive it as a gift for their faithfulness see this thread:

Immortality - Deathlessness

a reply to: randomuser

Millions who came before Jesus came to earth?

Possibly billions given that recorded history in not all that is to be desired.

As to the rest I'm on the fence myself.

But i envy you the obvious peace of mind you have where faith is concerned.

As to immortality, well we are not really equipped to deal with eternity.

Which is why our preconceived ideologies fall apart when presented with the totality and grand scheme of it all and the universe in general.

Think it might be my bedtime all the same it being 4+am here in the UK and the kids up in a couple of hours.

Goodnight randomuser, and everybody else.

originally posted by: randomuser
"Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.”-Acts 17:31.

There is no need of science to find everlasting life. Jehovah God has guaranteed it to all who exercise faith in the ransom sacrifice of his son.

Here is something to think about. God has always existed. But what was the first creation by God? The Bible says it was his son, known to us since the gospel times as Jesus Christ. He is the only-begotten, and the first-born of all creation. He was the very first creation, and the only direct creation by Jehovah God. All other things have been created through him (that is Jesus) and for him (that is Jesus.)

Now knowing this, that Jesus is the first creation, how old is he? Of course God is beyond measuring in years, as he never had a beginning, and is called the King of Eternity. But Jesus Christ, being Jehovah's firstborn and only-begotten son, has to be older than our universe. And scientists say our universe is 13.8 billion years old. So Jesus, if scientists are to be believed, is at least that old.

If Jehovah God could raise Jesus Christ from the grave, from his sleep in death, and return to him all his memories of that existence he had prior to dying, then it is a very easy thing to do the same for any human sleeping in death. Thus the resurrection is an assured hope. The assurance was given when he rose Jesus Christ from the dead. No matter how many humans may be lying asleep in death, in the "memorial tombs" of Jehovah God's memory, it is a very simple task for him to make a body new for them and return the life force of that person with all of its original personality and memory, and experiences.

This is a reality, and truth. It will happen:

"Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me."-John 5:28-30.

Resurrection of the dead is an assured hope.

Thanks for sharing, brother. This is so true.

I don't want to digress too much, but are you sure Jesus was created?

Jesus was the only person to be born of a mortal mother, Mary, and an immortal father, God the Father. That is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten Son of God.

Jesus’ disciples were equally clear in their belief in Jesus’ deity and uncreated nature. John tells us that “in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word [Jesus] was God” (John 1:1). After having encountered the risen Jesus, the apostle Thomas exclaimed to Him, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28). The apostle Paul referred to Christ as “God over all” (Romans 9:5) and stated that “in [Christ] the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily” (Colossians 2:9). In the early days of the church, Jesus was both the object of prayer (Acts 7:59) and the One in whose name the forgiveness of sins was proclaimed (Acts 2:38; 10:43). After having interrogated Christians under the threat of death, the Roman administrator Pliny the Younger wrote in his letter to the Emperor Trajan (c. AD 110) that “[the Christians] were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light when they sang in alternative verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god” (Letters 10.96).

Jesus, God the Son, was not created. He has always existed; He has no beginning or end. The Son took on human flesh at a particular point in human history (John 1:14). Christians refer to this event as the Incarnation (“the act of being made flesh”). This act was integral to our salvation (Galatians 4:4–5; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 9:22). From the Incarnation onward, the eternal, uncreated Son is both truly God and truly man. But there was never a time when the Son did not exist. He was never created. Jesus always was and will forever remain “our great God and Savior” (Titus 2:13).

The Bible teaches that Jesus was not created but was rather the Creator. “In [Jesus Christ] all things were created: . . . all things have been created through him and for him” (Colossians 1:16). The doctrine of the eternality of Christ is one of the distinguishing marks of biblical Christianity.

More here www.gotquestions.org...

originally posted by: olaru12
I respect Michio Kaku as a theoretical physicist, I didn't know he was a theologian as well.

He doesn't get into anything theological.

a reply to: TTU77

TTU77,

I enjoyed reading your previous comment. It was spot on. And appreciate your faith as well. I was actually thinking of the very same scripture you quoted when stating that Jesus Christ was the first creation by God.

I understand that many believe that Jesus is God. And I respect that. And never would want to do anything that offends or stumbles anyone. And definitely would never want to argue scriptures with anyone. That would be wrong and unproductive.

I will leave you with my understanding in this regard. That is what the scripture states:

"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him."-Colossians 1:15-16.

Here we are told that Jesus was the first-born of all creation. And all other things no matter what they were were created through him and for him. That is actually almost verbatim what I posted in my comment you replied to. Here is a question to ponder. If all things were created through Jesus, who used him?

In John 3:16 Jesus is called the "only-begotten" son of God. The word begot implies created. A begotten being is a created being. No where is God called begotten or the son of anyone, or born. Jehovah was never born, he has never had a beginning and will never have an end. Scripture tells us that it is impossible for God to die:

"Are you not from everlasting, O Jehovah?
O my God, my Holy One, you do not die."
-Habakkuk 1:12.

The whole of the Christian faith is based on the fact that Jesus Christ died for our sins. When Jesus returned to heaven, his beloved apostle John wrote in his gospel that no one had ever seen God:

"No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him."-John 1:18.

And in John 14:28 Jesus himself states that God is greater than he is:

"You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am."-John 14:28.

Jesus humbly acknowledged that his Father, Jehovah is greater than he.

In fact on the night before Jesus was put to death he prayed fervently to his Father in heaven. And then even showed that he thought different from his Father, when he pleaded for the "cup" to be removed from him. Showing that he did not desire to die a criminal's death, as a blasphemer of God. That broke his heart. But although he told his Father in prayer how he felt about the matter, he then added, "not as I will, but as you will." That is he was willing to forgo his own will in the matter, and do what his Father had willed for him. You can clearly see these are two separate persons. A Father, and a son:

"Father, if you want to, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place."

Jesus matter-of-factually stated that he came not do do his own will, but the one of Him that sent him, many times. And when accused of blasphemy by the Jewish religious leaders, he reasoned with them, that their own scriptures called their judges "gods." So why did they accuse him of blasphemy for claiming to be God's son:

"Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?"-John 10:34-36.

Here are 4 points in my study of scripture that clearly show that Jesus is indeed the firstborn of creation, God's only-begotten, and that he did not lie when he said that God is greater than he is, and that John did not lie when he said that no man has ever seen God (after Jesus returned to heaven).

1. God cannot die. (Habakkuk 1:12). Jesus died for our sins. (John 3:16).

2. God cannot be temped. ("When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."-James 1:13) Jesus was temped by Satan, the ruler of the world. -Matthew 4:4-10.

3. God cannot be taught anything from anyone, let alone obedience. Yet Jesus learned obedience from the things he suffered:

"Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. "-Hebrews 5:8.

4. Jesus subjects himself to his Father and his Father's will. God does not subject himself to anyone.

Remember how Jesus wished that God remove the cup from him. But he was willing to do what his Father willed, and not as he himself willed? Yes, Jehovah God, his Father, was teaching him obedience by the things he suffered. And then he was made perfect and is responsible for the everlasting salvation of everyone putting faith in him.

When Jesus was baptized, who spoke from the heaven saying that this was God's son? When the holy spirit descended upon as a dove, what was it if it was God and Jesus is God? Who did Jesus pray to often? Who raised Jesus Christ from the dead?

The scriptures, Jehovah God (who says that he is "ONE JEHOVAH") and Jesus Christ himself are very clear that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation, the only-begotten son of God. That God is greater than Jesus.

And at the end, after the thousand year reign of Christ, Jesus Christ will subject himself, and return the kingdom to his God and Father. God does not subject himself to anyone:

For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.-1 Corinthians 15:27-28.

originally posted by: gosseyn

I can simulate my liver on my computer down to the molecular level, it doesn't mean my computer will start to pee on my desk. It is the same for consciousness.

The metaphor is actually "I can simulate kidney function on my computer" and not "liver" but I am sure it was obvious enough.
That metaphor comes from a philosopher, Bernardo Kastrup.

originally posted by: Baddogma
So... they can model human consciousness and build so close an approximation that one cannot tell a copy from an original! Yay! Digital immortality!

The thing about this mode of 'immortality' (until entropy- like rust, a solar flare or errant black hole, anyway) is that your personal narrative still ends. Your story fades to black (or heavenly choirs, whatevs), but it ENDS.

So what if another "you" blinks into existence in some hellish cloud, splendorous heaven or pong game? The original you perspective stops ... is dead, dead, dead.

How is this any different, personally, than littering the world with your careless half-gene spawn? No "immortality" there... just endless dittos of the same sad point of ego with no continuity of perspective.

I think you have to ask this question to the mom and dad whose little boy just died from cancer or hell, ask me what I think about this wicked nonsense on the day that I lose my mother or father, a day I can’t even imagine surviving…maybe it will mean something then…

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

Well, I've lost the majority of people I've known and loved... enough to populate a few apt complexes or sports teams.

Having their approximation-no matter how accurate the facsimile- would be personally horrifying. What if they suffer? What if there is some essence that is missing and it haunts them? What if some sociopath downloads a copy into their own personal Hell Matrix for kicks?

Imagine a version of you waking up to a digital approximation of "life" with no mystery or hope of evolution or transcendence? Again, could be pretty "hellish."

It really isn't glad tidings when one uses their imagination.

a reply to: randomuser

I'll put some more thought into this and perhaps in time make a more detailed reply covering a few of the issues you brought up that indeed seem to be perplexing at first glance, deserving a little more study on my own to recheck my current thoughts and believes.

1. Much might be explained by Jesus, being God himself as the Son, a third of the tripartate being of the trinity, along with God the Father and the Holy Spirit, being 3 distinct persons into one being -- He gave up his divine perogative, and went out from Heaven into time and upon Earth, where Here, being fully God still, grew up in time just as a normal person, according to God's plan of redemption, that he live fully as man, learning and growing in knowledge and in time, he learned obedience by experiencing it, hardship and temptation (that God cannot be tempted, perhaps, without giving up diving perogative). Also, now, since giving up DP, would not the Father be greater than He in this state of incarnation? I'm not entirely sure about this assertion. I'll consider it further.
2. I am under the impression that it is super important for a number of reasons why Jesus must be God, and not a creation of God, to cover the sins of humanity, and to be the perfect judge, and the high priest in heaven, and many problem arise if this were not so, for the trinity has been a consensus for many for quite some time.
3. Who did Jesus pray to? Perhaps to God the father from the fully human aspect of his being. He also mentioned sometimes, I know you always hear me, but I pray outloud so they may hear - so His prayers are a demonstration to us how to pray and behave. Furthermore, perhaps His entire prayer life was for our benefit indeed knowing that after His death, the Holy Spirit would recount all things unto the apostles.

The main issue seems to be about the doctrine of the trinity. I'm not of the opinion this is crucial to salvation. I need to learn more as both sides have good points. I have read many things that could explain away these points that are based on biblical sound doctrine. All I can do is share what I've learned and keep an open mind and hope wisdom will come to me through the holy spirit.

May both our meditations be blessed and pleasing to God.

Cheers

a reply to: FlyersFan2

at least it will be easy to prove when they've succeeded. do it to someone still alive then ask them and the ai a question. give it a couple centuries still

a reply to: TTU77

Thank you for your sincere and mild reply. I have no doubt in your words. And have no doubt God's holy spirit will lead you into the way of all the truth!

With the mastery of satori it's just being stuck at the: "Please ask a question" prompt

So already there since forever ago lol

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: olaru12

Digital Soul...interesting concept!

Surely we are not that boolean?

There is some speculation that our soul, or essence, emanates from the quantum realm.

And that our brains are nothing more than analog computers of sorts, that run the software(poor comparison) that amounts to our consciousness.

Again if the universe does turn out to have a holographic component to existence that may very well make a modicum of sense.

imo...it makes a lot of sense when you consider the cosmos is mainly dark matter where the quantums don't exactly work according Kaku, Higgs or Sabrina Gonzalez.

a reply to: ancientlight I was going to say almost the same thing. Life is so miserable now why would you want to be here forever?