Definitive 9.11 Pentagon EVIDENCE.

a reply to: stu119

The problem is that most of you that think you've "done your research" never found out basic undeniable facts, like that the approach to hit the Pentagon where it was hit goes right past several major roadways. At 9:37am, hundreds of cars would've been on those roads. Tons of eyewitnesses.

IF it was a conspiracy and they actually used a missile, so many people would've seen it that "they" couldn't possibly get to and pay off or threaten all the witnesses in time. Word would've immediately gotten out that it was a missile.

Instead, the eyewitness reports clearly, not vaguely, say it was a plane. Why would you lie about that?

That's the thing with you guys. You run around crying about it being so obvious it was a conspiracy. If it was so obvious, you wouldn't have to post blatant, shameless lies.

a reply to: YourFaceAgain

Don't think I've posted any lies or conspiracy, I'm raising questions.

Where are these statements of a low flying plane which by all accounts could have upturned cars at a certain elevation?

a reply to: YourFaceAgain

" Instead, the eyewitness reports clearly, not vaguely, say it was a plane. Why would you lie about that? "


If their very Lives were " Threatened " by an " Unknown Authority " to Confess in a Sworn Statement as a Witness to the Event that it was Nothing other than a 757 Identified as American airlines Flight 77 from Dulles International Airport in Northern Virginia to Los Angeles International Airport in California would Anyone say Otherwise ?

originally posted by: stu119
a reply to: YourFaceAgain

Don't think I've posted any lies or conspiracy

You did. You said the eyewitness statements are vague. They're not. Stop lying please. I won't discuss this with someone who just blatantly lies because it's a waste of my time.

Respond like an adult. One chance. I usually give 3 chances but I'm busy today.

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: stu119

One side of the pentagon is something like 900 feet wide. And the building takes up 26 acres. And the plane almost crashed in front on the lawn.

But it DIDN'T nearly crash on the lawn, though.

Numerous people said they THOUGHT it was going to crash on the ground.
But then they saw it pick up / lift up, as it crossed the road.

Frank Probst, walking along the footpath near the helipad, famously said he dropped flat on the ground because he thought the plane was going to hit him.
In a later video interview, he explains how he saw all the 757 windows flying past him, from left to right - which means the plane was to his north, and perpendicular to the wall, and at least as far north as the helipad, and going much slower than 550 mph.
He demonstrates with his hand how the plane lifted up.
From that angle, no way could the plane have hit the first floor, on a 52° angle, behind him !!!

Darius Prather, working in the Arlington National Cemetery, saw the plane fly overhead, across its parking lot, far north of the official flightpath.
He then drew the flightpath on an overhead photo, and explained that the plane "pivoted up" as it crossed the highway at the Columbia Pike Exit road.
Again, this was nowhere near the official flightpath.

Robert Turcios, working at the Citgo gas station, said the tip of the right wing of the plane passed north of the northern end of the station.
He had seen it "swoop down" after it crossed the Navy Annex, and he believed it was going to crash on the road.
But then he saw it "pick up a little bit" to clear the overhead traffic sign on Route 27, hundreds of feet north of the bridge.
Obviously the plane could not have hit any of those poles on the bridge!
And if it cleared the traffic signs, then it could not have "swooped down again" to hit the first floor, within less than 1 second from the highway.

Motorists on the highway described how the plane crossed their cars, far north of the bridge, about over the helipad.
Vin Narayanan, Father Stephen McGraw, Christine Peterson, Cheryl Ryefield, Steven McHale, etc etc were all on that section of highway near the 2 trees between the heliport and the road. They all described the plane flying over them.
If the plane had flown across the bridge, then it would have been hundreds of feet behind them.

Mary Ann Owens was next to the tree opposite the south corner of the helipad, as we know from a photo she took. She said that the plane was directly overhead, about 50 to 80 feet above her car. She said it "hit" between the 2nd and 3rd floors, not at ground level.

Aziz elHallou estimated the plane was 80 YARDS above his car! And he was a pilot!

Penny Elgas calculated that, according to the height of her house, the plane would have been 50 feet above her car.

Captain Lincoln Liebner, near the southwestern corner of the building, stated that the plane hit the building much higher than the official claim, at the 2nd and 3rd floors.
He demonstrated on a photo how the plane approached perpendicular to the wall, and across the helipad.
He dud not see the plane come from behind him, across the bridge.

Sean Boger, ATC working inside the heliport, described seeing the plane approach from over the Navy Annex, north of the Citgo, towards the cemetery, then banking right towards the Pentagon.
Therefore, far from the bridge and the downed poles.
He also believed the plane hit much higher than the official story, between the second and third floors.

Sergeant William Lagasse was adamant that the plane flew north of the Citgo station, above the cemetery's stone fence, and that Lloyde England's taxi was beside the cemetery, north of the heliport, when it was hit by a pole.
This is 1,200 feet north of downed pole #1 on top of the bridge.

"Tim" Timmerman was the first person to call a TV station and report what he saw, from his high rise apartment far south of the Pentagon. He believed the plane hit the lawn first, then "bounced up" into the building, and said its wings flew "forward and up".
Obviously the plane never touched the lawn at all.
And if it had "bounced up" as many people claimed, then it would have been much higher than the first floor hole.

Maria de la Cerda was playing in a military band at a funeral high up on the cemetery, where she could only see the roof of the Pentagon, at the height of the trees. She stated that she believed the plane had hit "on the other side," or "on top" of the roof, as that is where she saw the plane, when the fireball erupted.

NOBODY who was on the bridge, saw it fly overhead.
NOBODY saw the plane fly on that 52° angle to the wall.
NOBODY saw that plume of smoke across the lawn.
NOBODY saw the plane fly that 270° loop southwest of the Pentagon.

originally posted by: Faberge


But it DIDN'T nearly crash on the lawn, though.

And yet it crashed in the pentagon leaving debris, the crew, and passengers.

Nobody?

Shrugs…

Steve Anderson

I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11.
From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River...
Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye.
It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke.
James Madison University Alumni, October 1 2001

911myths.com...

First rule of conspiracies. Don’t post in absolutes like never and nobody.

Makes you look brainwashed.

originally posted by: Faberge


Maria de la Cerda was playing in a military band at a funeral high up on the cemetery, where she could only see the roof of the Pentagon, at the height of the trees. She stated that she believed the plane had hit "on the other side," or "on top" of the roof, as that is where she saw the plane, when the fireball erupted.

And yet you have a person seeing the jet hit the pentagon?

Are you a flyover person. When nobody ever saw the plane fly away?

I am originally from Hitchin, Herts, UK. I work in Washington DC area, and was on my way to work, in my car, sitting on a bridge, and saw the plane hit the Pentagon. I am in a complete state of shock.
Pam Bradley, USA

news.bbc.co.uk...

Hemphill, Albert
[A Ballistic Missile Defense Organization staff member watched from the Navy Annex.]
This office, with two nice windows and a great view of the monuments, the Capitol and the Pentagon was "good digs" by any Pentagon standard. . . . I walked in the office and stood peering out of the window looking at the Pentagon. . . . As I stood there, I instinctively ducked at the extremely loud roar and whine of a jet engine spooling up. Immediately, the large silver cylinder of an aircraft appeared in my window, coming over my right shoulder as I faced the Westside of the Pentagon directly towards the heliport. The aircraft, looking to be either a 757 or Airbus, seemed to come directly over the annex, as if it had been following Columbia Pike -- an Arlington road leading to Pentagon. The aircraft was moving fast, at what I could only be estimate [sic] as between 250 to 300 knots. All in all, I probably only had the aircraft in my field of view for approximately 3 seconds.
The aircraft was at a sharp downward angle of attack, on a direct course for the Pentagon. It was "clean", in as much as, there were no flaps applied and no apparent landing gear deployed. He was slightly left wing down as he appeared in my line of sight, as if he'd just "jinked" to avoid something. As he crossed Route 110 he appeared to level his wings, making a slight right wing slow adjustment as he impacted low on the Westside of the building to the right of the helo, tower and fire vehicle around corridor 5. What instantly followed was a large yellow fireball accompanied by an extremely bass sounding, deep thunderous boom. The yellow fireball rose quickly as black smoke engulfed the entire Westside of the Pentagon, obscuring the whole of the heliport. I could feel the concussion and felt the shockwave of the blast impact the window of the Annex, knocking me against the desk.
"RE: The flag was still there - Pentagon Eye-Witness account," e-mail by Albert Hemphill, TML September 2001 archive, lists.travellerrpg.com, 9/12/01

ratical.org...

No evidence nor any reliable witnesses the jet missed the pentagon. All evidence points to a large passenger jet hitting the pentagon with crew and passengers. From witnesses, radar data, to the debris trail to the Pentagon.

a reply to: Lazy88

Did you View the Video from the Pentagon Parking Lot that was Released in Slow Motion ? You can Clearly see this..........

Commence to Debunk !

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Lazy88

Did you View the Video from the Pentagon Parking Lot that was Released in Slow Motion ? You can Clearly see this..........

Commence to Debunk !

Other than eyewitnesses saw a jet with large wings and engines on the wings?

Stephens, Levi
Levi Stephens 23, courier Armed Forces Information Service -- According to one witness, "what looked like a 747" plowed into the south side of the Pentagon, possibly skipping through a heliport before it hit the building. Personnel working in the Navy Annex, over which the airliner flew, said they heard the distinct whine of jet engines as the airliner approached. "I was driving away from the Pentagon in the South Pentagon lot when I hear this huge rumble, the ground started shaking . . . I saw this [plane] come flying over the Navy Annex. It flew over the van and I looked back and I saw this huge explosion, black smoke everywhere."
Dead link: www.pstripes.com...

ratical.org...

Other than where one jet engine hit a concrete wall?

The entrance hole into the pentagon was too small for a cruise missile.


therightbloggerbastard.blogspot.com...


With as mentioned debris from a passenger jet. And the remains of the crew. And the remains of the passengers.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Lazy88

Did you View the Video from the Pentagon Parking Lot that was Released in Slow Motion ? You can Clearly see this..........

This blinked image pair shows the motion of the plane between the two camera views using the corrected images. The images have been positioned so the background features on the horizon align. Based on the dimensions of the plane and motion relative to background markers, the plane moved about 115 ft between the two exposures. Using the FDR speed measurement of 556 mi/hr, we can compute that the two cameras were out of sync by about 0.14 sec. (I don't believe this time offset has been measured before.)



Note that when barrel distortion is eliminated, the image compression near the edge of the field is eliminated, so the plane appears longer, with proportions resembling a 757. (Remember, the plane is also moving toward us at about a 45 degree angle.)

One feature of the plane image helps us identify it as an American Airlines plane. Note the purple stripe along the side of the plane. American Airlines planes have parallel red and blue stripes. At the small scale of the original image it is quite likely that this purple stripe is a merger of the color information from a red and a blue stripe.

**********

NEW: Wayne Coste's analysis of the security camera videos extends what I have shown on this page. The blink comparator images below establish that a large plane approached the Pentagon. Wayne's analysis supports the authenticity of the videos and provides an independent assessment of the speed of the plane based on the security camera footage.

911speakout.org...

a reply to: Lazy88

" Other than eyewitnesses saw a jet with large wings and engines on the wings? "


Has any of that Eyewitness Testimony been Corroborate buy Independent " Fact Checkers " ? If Not , what you seem to Believe could be Considered " Hearsay " .

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Lazy88

" Other than eyewitnesses saw a jet with large wings and engines on the wings? "


Has any of that Eyewitness Testimony been Corroborate buy Independent " Fact Checkers " ? If Not , what you seem to Believe could be Considered " Hearsay " .

Do you have any Independent " Fact Checkers " of witnesses the jet missed? Or you just have biased truth movement talking heads playing to confirmation bias?

People gave their official accounts and statements. If you think they are lying, then prove it.


Where my “evidence” doesn’t at all depend on eyewitness accounts.

But the eye witness accounts is confirmed by the physical evidence.

The jet clipped trees, one engine hit a low concrete wall. The jet pushed and clipped trailers in a lay down yard outside the Pentagon. Where the items pushed towards the Pentagon.





Then made a large entrance hole pushing in the outer wall of the Pentagon. A hole consistent with a large jet. With a large wingspan. Leaving wrecked in its wake. The remains of passengers and crew.

Sad you refer to an obvious fake photo of a cruise missile.

a reply to: Zanti Misfit

Was trying to be somewhat nice. I thought you were just joking about the photo.

You realize that is a photoshop version of a real photo? Where the original photo is known.

Debunked: Cruise Missile painted like American Airlines
Thread starter Mick West Start date Jun 25, 2012

www.metabunk.org...

Mick West
Post 3
The fake (AA) images are smaller and lower resolution than the originals. They also have the black bars added over the eyes.

There's also evidence of poor photoshopping in the fakes, where the straps are left with a grey border, and the yellow line has been blended in with the AA livery.

www.metabunk.org...-11005

Why I never liked the truth movement, it’s always been filled with cons. Thanks for highlighting that.

originally posted by: Lazy88
And yet it crashed in the pentagon leaving debris, the crew, and passengers.

That is a controversial statement, not a proven fact.

originally posted by: Lazy88
Steve Anderson
From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River ...
Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building.

Steve Anderson gave his testimony once only, and not until one month later.
His office was 3 miles northwest of the Pentagon.
How much detail could he actually see from there?
We know that it was far in the distance, because TV footage was taken from that building with the Pentagon looking tiny in the background.

If you are going to quote Anderson as an impact witness, then you need to explain exactly HOW he heard the engines of AA77 passing his building, several minutes before the fireball!!

originally posted by: Lazy88
I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball.

Well NO, the plane did NOT drag its left wing along the ground.
It did NOT bank left.

Many eyewitnesses testified that the plane banked RIGHT as it approached the Pentagon.
Most notably ATC Sean Boger, working in the Heliport Tower with years of experience, and a full frontal view.

The plane was already beyond the wall for about 3 seconds before the fireball erupted.
Again, many witnesses describe there being a short delay between the plane "just disappearing," and the explosion.
Several remarked that they did not hear anything at the moment that the plane vanished.

But several people describe anomalous details, such as

* the left wing hitting the helipad
* the plane hitting the ground first then "bouncing UP" into (the ground floor of) the building
* the "nose crumpling"
* the wings breaking off then flying "forward and up"

Obviously, none of these things happened.
There were no impact marks on the ground or helipad.

These people obviously saw something, so what was it that tricked their eyes?

It was two white construction trailers parked behind the helipad, being totally blown apart, with undamaged white metal cladding sheets being blown forward towards the helipad, and up into the air, to land on the roof.

Many high resolution photos show these metal sheets, not crushed by the impact of a jumbo jet wing, but undeformed, after being exploded outwards by internal force, laying against the chain link fence, on top of the roofs, and down in the wells between the rings.

a reply to: Lazy88

There is a sizeable list of testimony from people who witnessed a flyover, or saw the plane after it had flown beyond the Pentagon.
Your incredulous denial is not evidence that it never happened.

originally posted by: Faberge

originally posted by: Lazy88
And yet it crashed in the pentagon leaving debris, the crew, and passengers.

That is a controversial statement, not a proven fact.

How is it not proven.

What caused this.


What flew across the lawn.

This blinked image pair shows the motion of the plane between the two camera views using the corrected images. The images have been positioned so the background features on the horizon align. Based on the dimensions of the plane and motion relative to background markers, the plane moved about 115 ft between the two exposures. Using the FDR speed measurement of 556 mi/hr, we can compute that the two cameras were out of sync by about 0.14 sec. (I don't believe this time offset has been measured before.)



Note that when barrel distortion is eliminated, the image compression near the edge of the field is eliminated, so the plane appears longer, with proportions resembling a 757. (Remember, the plane is also moving toward us at about a 45 degree angle.)

One feature of the plane image helps us identify it as an American Airlines plane. Note the purple stripe along the side of the plane. American Airlines planes have parallel red and blue stripes. At the small scale of the original image it is quite likely that this purple stripe is a merger of the color information from a red and a blue stripe.

**********

NEW: Wayne Coste's analysis of the security camera videos extends what I have shown on this page. The blink comparator images below establish that a large plane approached the Pentagon. Wayne's analysis supports the authenticity of the videos and provides an independent assessment of the speed of the plane based on the security camera footage.

911speakout.org...

originally posted by: Faberge

originally posted by: Lazy88
And yet it crashed in the pentagon leaving debris, the crew, and passengers.

That is a controversial statement, not a proven fact.

How is it not proven.

What caused this.


What flew across the lawn into the pentagon.

This blinked image pair shows the motion of the plane between the two camera views using the corrected images. The images have been positioned so the background features on the horizon align. Based on the dimensions of the plane and motion relative to background markers, the plane moved about 115 ft between the two exposures. Using the FDR speed measurement of 556 mi/hr, we can compute that the two cameras were out of sync by about 0.14 sec. (I don't believe this time offset has been measured before.)



Note that when barrel distortion is eliminated, the image compression near the edge of the field is eliminated, so the plane appears longer, with proportions resembling a 757. (Remember, the plane is also moving toward us at about a 45 degree angle.)

One feature of the plane image helps us identify it as an American Airlines plane. Note the purple stripe along the side of the plane. American Airlines planes have parallel red and blue stripes. At the small scale of the original image it is quite likely that this purple stripe is a merger of the color information from a red and a blue stripe.

**********

NEW: Wayne Coste's analysis of the security camera videos extends what I have shown on this page. The blink comparator images below establish that a large plane approached the Pentagon. Wayne's analysis supports the authenticity of the videos and provides an independent assessment of the speed of the plane based on the security camera footage.

911speakout.org...

originally posted by: Faberge
a reply to: Lazy88

There is a sizeable list of testimony from people who witnessed a flyover,

Who is quoted as seeing the jet fly away?