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originally posted by: [post=26664916]All Seeing Eye
originally posted by: DragonsDemesne
As cool as it would be for there to be some ancient civilization, I'm not aware of any evidence of such. I think it's quite possible that civilization could have arisen somewhat earlier than conventional history thinks, but certainly not by orders of magnitude like millions of years.
originally posted by: Hanslune
originally posted by: [post=26664916]All Seeing Eye
All Seeing Eye may I recommend you take a moment to read your comments and then think? Who is acting like a nut? Me or you?
The topic of this thread, 'Could Earth Have Once Harbored a Pre-Human Industrial Civilization?" Not a forum for your whacky paranoid delusions.
Then why don't you reply to the response you received, about your "Science" being proven wrong.
Atlantis has been discovered?!
You calling me "Crazy"? LOL LOL
Not a forum for your whacky paranoid delusions.
originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
All Seeing Eye may I recommend you take a moment to read your comments and then think? Who is acting like a nut? Me or you?
Then why don't you reply to the response you received, about your "Science" being proven wrong.
I do not claim to be a "Scientist", at least not in the traditional mainstream manner. All I have done is the first step in science. OBSERVATION!
Your unscientific opinions are not evidence or even a coherent theory.
? More like ignorant forces, wishing to remain, ignorant.
evil forces
originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
a reply to: Hanslune
I do not claim to be a "Scientist", at least not in the traditional mainstream manner
Well you'll have to wait until then and hope the dates are right and excavations finds the city you think exists there in accordance with Plato.
The latter contain well-preserved freshwater fossils. Numerous concordant radiocarbon dates indicate that the bulk of these sediments accumulated between 15,000 and 8,000 BP during the African humid period. These deposits lie directly upon deeply eroded and weathered bedrock.[16]
originally posted by: All Seeing Eye
a reply to: Hanslune
Well you'll have to wait until then and hope the dates are right and excavations finds the city you think exists there in accordance with Plato.
The latter contain well-preserved freshwater fossils. Numerous concordant radiocarbon dates indicate that the bulk of these sediments accumulated between 15,000 and 8,000 BP during the African humid period. These deposits lie directly upon deeply eroded and weathered bedrock.[16]
en.wikipedia.org...
How long do you think that "wait" is going to be?
originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
Bipedal dinosaurs were incredibly common. I mean: considering that their last surviving descendants: birds, are also bipedal.
But most of the dinosaurs we see in the record had smaller fore limbs that were used for something other than flying. Usually with claws on them. It's not too big a stretch to imagine a short lived species emerging that has fingers and an opposable thumb on the end of those appendages. And then using tools.
www.nhm.ac.uk...
We have a hard time even finding early humans from a million years back. Nevermind trying to find remnants of a human-ish dinosaur from 55 million years ago. Just isn't going to happen.
The only reason we find dinosaur bones at all is because they existed for many millions of years before they died out, giving them many millions of opportunities to leave fossils for us. Probably the odds of any dinosaur's skeleton surviving to the present were similar to the odds of winning the Power Ball Jackpot, but many, many, many dinosaurs lived and died.
If the human-like dinos were industrial for just a couple thousand years............. that's just plain too small a time period for there to be enough lottery winners.
originally posted by: Hanslune
originally posted by: DragonsDemesne
As cool as it would be for there to be some ancient civilization, I'm not aware of any evidence of such. I think it's quite possible that civilization could have arisen somewhat earlier than conventional history thinks, but certainly not by orders of magnitude like millions of years.
Yes it would VERY cool if such civilizations could be found. I have been looking for such evidence for many decades. That search brought me into Archaeology. So far not a thing points to any lost civilization BUT we are pushing back the beginning of human 'cultured life' beginning with Catalhuyuck, Gobekli Tepe and now Karahan Tepe. I suspect we''ll go back even father. I have and am still looking for evidence of a 'flowering' of human culture in the Eemian the previous warming period after the previous ice age (circa 130,000 years ago). No luck so far.
originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
Bipedal dinosaurs were incredibly common. I mean: considering that their last surviving descendants: birds, are also bipedal.
But most of the dinosaurs we see in the record had smaller fore limbs that were used for something other than flying. Usually with claws on them. It's not too big a stretch to imagine a short lived species emerging that has fingers and an opposable thumb on the end of those appendages. And then using tools.
www.nhm.ac.uk...
We have a hard time even finding early humans from a million years back. Nevermind trying to find remnants of a human-ish dinosaur from 55 million years ago. Just isn't going to happen.
The only reason we find dinosaur bones at all is because they existed for many millions of years before they died out, giving them many millions of opportunities to leave fossils for us. Probably the odds of any dinosaur's skeleton surviving to the present were similar to the odds of winning the Power Ball Jackpot, but many, many, many dinosaurs lived and died.
If the human-like dinos were industrial for just a couple thousand years............. that's just plain too small a time period for there to be enough lottery winners.
originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
Clearly evidence of a short lived advanced civilization from millions of years ago would be unlikely to survive ON EARTH.
originally posted by: Fowlerstoad
a reply to: tamusan
I would think the best evidence of an earlier industrial civilization on Earth, and maybe the only evidence that would 'survive' for the eons, would be cut diamonds.
Our civilization has studded the surface with hundreds of millions of the things, both industrial, and aesthetic in purpose.
If we could find cut diamonds in strata of the Earth from an earlier age, that would be good evidence of a prior industrial civilization.
I believe our cut diamonds will survive, for whatever future civilization that may look back eons from now, and wonder about the 'holocene hypothesis' haha, or whatever they might call our age in the future.
originally posted by: Harte
originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
Clearly evidence of a short lived advanced civilization from millions of years ago would be unlikely to survive ON EARTH.
How can a civilization be short-lived and yet become advanced?
That is, you gotta start somewhere and there's all these rocks laying around...
Harte
originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
originally posted by: Fowlerstoad
a reply to: tamusan
I would think the best evidence of an earlier industrial civilization on Earth, and maybe the only evidence that would 'survive' for the eons, would be cut diamonds.
Our civilization has studded the surface with hundreds of millions of the things, both industrial, and aesthetic in purpose.
If we could find cut diamonds in strata of the Earth from an earlier age, that would be good evidence of a prior industrial civilization.
I believe our cut diamonds will survive, for whatever future civilization that may look back eons from now, and wonder about the 'holocene hypothesis' haha, or whatever they might call our age in the future.
I wonder what kinds of explanations would be attempted, to try to explain it away?
originally posted by: Harte
originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
Clearly evidence of a short lived advanced civilization from millions of years ago would be unlikely to survive ON EARTH.
How can a civilization be short-lived and yet become advanced?
That is, you gotta start somewhere and there's all these rocks laying around...
Harte
On the scale of the age of Dinosaurs, 20,000 years would be "short lived" .
Even if they had, like we do, about 2 or 3 million years of history, but it mirrored ours, then most of the three million years you'd be seeing artifacts that you can barely call "tool using". Stuff like a sharpened rock that may, or may not, have been used to hit stuff with?
The really advanced tools would only run about 10,000 years, if that. Even if they reached the space age.
originally posted by: Fowlerstoad
a reply to: tamusanI believe our cut diamonds will survive, for whatever future civilization that may look back eons from now, and wonder about the 'holocene hypothesis' haha, or whatever they might call our age in the future.
originally posted by: Harte
My point was there's no sign of such a culture, much less an advanced one. Like I said, you have to start somewhere, and advanced doesn't happen for a VERY long time.
There would be evidence in stone if anyone had been around to use stone.
If this ancient culture existed too long ago for us to be able to detect it, then the entire point is moot, isn't it.
The Silurian Hypothesis does not assert that there may have been an advanced civilization 300 million (or whatever) years ago. It's more about the question of, IF such a civilization existed, what means could we use to detect it?
It's really an exercise in detecting ancient extinct civilizations, with an eye toward extraterrestrial cultures (eventually.)
Harte