Why do People See What They See?

a reply to: OutTheBox

Naw is slang for no.

As far as being attention-seeking:

No harm in that!

Most people do that.

Kev

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Wasn't sure where I should say this, as we don't have
a Gnosticism post, but I did look through your John
Lash inspired Gnosticism material.

We ran into each other and did not 'click' as they say.

Interesting fellow. I'd have loved to have learned
something from him, but I did not. He didn't learn
anything from me either.

In my view?

Gnosticism is a TWAP



but then, EVERYTHING is.

I did have a fascinating discussion with him
about 'Kundalini', yet another trap.

But of course, if everyone had god-like access
to the laws of physics, or beyond, like humans
yearn for..

You'd get one of those worlds, where everyone
lumbers around like Cthulu.

Not my thing.

I just wanted you to know, I had looked over
that material.

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

Wasn't sure where I should say this, as we don't have
a Gnosticism post, but I did look through your John
Lash inspired Gnosticism material.

Gnosticism is a TWAP

Not my thing.

I just wanted you to know, I had looked over
that material.

Kev

Not sure what post is being referenced that I would have mentioned anything about John Lash or his ideology..... perhaps your post was to someone else. I just looked up a John Lash and found the following.... definitely not a person I would associated or subscribe to. Not sure what material I would have offered in which he was focused. If I need refreshing, kindly do so.

Here is the link I just found describing him some what. Now do I have gnostic books in my small theology, religious, UFOology....library. That’s a 10-4 since I like to read outside the catholic bible I was weened on.

Mind you, I don’t have a Reddit account...

www.reddit.com...

a reply to: Ophiuchus1


This post you made:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I guess it's my bad. You still haven't read the document you got your profile
picture from?

My apologies.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Ophiuchus1


This post you made:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I guess it's my bad. You still haven't read the document you got your profile
picture from?

My apologies.

Ok.... got you....no not yet ..... it’s in the que to read hopefully before 2020 runs out 😉

a reply to: Ophiuchus1

I was making conversation ya know!

I make a point out of reading what my brothers in arms
are promoting, so that it can be discussed.

It's basic politeness, no?

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Ophiuchus1

I was making conversation ya know!

I make a point out of reading what my brothers in arms
are promoting, so that it can be discussed.

It's basic politeness, no?

That’s true, I will endeavor to bring up what I thought about it to you after it’s read ....👍🏼

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

There was that one case of a 'human mutilation'
like a cattle mutilation.

Don't want to sidetrack this thread but if you are referencing the case I think you are there has been some research that points to drug war related torture / murder.

As someone who continues to experience anomalous events I thought the thread might be about why that seems to be the case for certain individuals - as opposed to why different people either see or interpret the same event differently.

Along those lines I recently read Orfeo Angelucci's The Secret of the Saucers, thanks to Karl 12's Free UFO books thread. There are several references in it to incidents where planes seen flying in the sky weren't what they seemed and were witnessed by multiple people, who, by and large, described the same thing.

One anomalous event I experienced was a soundless purple light in the sky, rising in the distance and then coming straight towards me. I quickly popped inside to call other family members to witness, when re-emerging with 2 others behind me the light was morphing into the silhouette of a single prop engined plane and started to make a noise something like what it would sound like, if that is what it was.

That wasn't what it was, nothing ever flies in that area, especially at night with only a large purple light at the front, soundless for 60 seconds then finally very loud as disappearing over cabin roofs at fairly close range. I know what I saw, the other 2 just saw a plane and were strangely unwilling to even discuss any discrepancy.

One of many events, hopefully kind of relevant to this thread.

a reply to: chunder

Quite relevant, thanks.

On the human mutilation, I stopped researching that sort
of thing 2 years ago and didn't follow up. But of course,
it might have had a prosaic explanation.

It certainly SEEMS that humans aren't mutilated much
compared to other mammals.

Now of course people will bring up the 411 stuff, and
say that's not necessarily true.

I think that more of the 411 is due to human trafficking
not 'abduction', but I'm not researching that sort of
thing. I'm barely researching anything these days.

Now as to the morphing purple blob.. i love those sort
of stories. There are such stories going back to prehistory.

I know that many people would scream 'mental illness' and
'no proof' and of course that's an easy cop out to paint with
that brush wide in all cases.

To me, it's rather telling, that part of the USG and shadowy
organizations are pushing 'demons', 'archons', 'tulpas' etc
and 1/2 of those people are actively shoving fake physical
nut and bolts UFOs down our throats (including TTSA).

Seems quite the little conflict.

Sorta analog / digital you know..

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

That the phenomenon can exhibit physical "nuts and bolts" properties in the universe we perceive seems not to be in doubt - however in at least the majority of cases if not all that doesn't seem to translate to a vehicle capable of interplanetary travel (or how we expect it to operate anyway).

My own impression is that a relatively simple but fundamental message is being delivered, if I have interpreted it correctly, I'm just not sure whether the message is for the benefit of the individual in their lifetime or a longer timescale (if time matters anyway), akin to an evolutionary process.

a reply to: chunder

You are assuming that we are the ones intended
to benefit, and that we aren't just useful for
something else.

It would be pretty good stealth technology if your vehicles caused people to see/experience them as being other worldy.

Potentially give you a good idea of the belief systems of those being observed too depending on how they react to the experience.

a reply to: johnb

A mental-illness inducing machine is something DARPA
may have cooked up for the CIA. It goes well with some
phases of MKUltra. I wonder what phase of MKultra they
are up to now?

But in my case, i'm highly dubious that's what happened
for a long laundry list of reasons.

But i'm not going to debate it to death; I have no horse
in this race. I'm not a UFOlogist, or UFO researcher.

Unless a majority of them are man made and these are all experimental shapes?

a reply to: Bloodworth

if it's a mental illness inducing machine,
someone could see anything.

Unless it's something like that, all the shapes,
the real-time shape-changing, all the many
weird effects would have to be due to
something else.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Most people would concur, yes, the brain tends to fill
in.

In my own encounter, the thing that was most amazing was the
perception of rivets.

I saw rivets when the 'craft' seemed overhead.

And I saw rivets when the 'craft' was disappearing
over the horizon.

The rivets never changed in apparent size.

But, if they were real rivets, they would have changed in apparent size, right? So the way you wrote this suggests you're aware it's either not real or there's at least some kind of distortion going on with your perception.

Since the whole summoning thing was an experiment,
I remembered to follow my test protocol, and I closed
my eyes.

The image of the 'craft' disappeared when my eyes
were closed, of course that proved nothing..

I have no idea of the purpose of your experiment, but taking photos or video could have proved something. Jim Oberg made an interesting thread where we can compare descriptions of what people saw, to photos and videos of what they saw, and there's not always a good correlation. Some illusions are pretty well known by now even if not fully understood exactly why the illusions happen, like inability to judge distance accurately to the UFO.

...I was merely deluding myself could have done
the same.

but I would like to point out, that NONE and I
mean NONE of what I experience was even
remotely ANYTHING that I had wanted to occur.

I was reading about delusions by hospital patients, who were in for Covid-19 treatment but apparently the delusions are not unique to COVID and apparently their delusions were also of unwanted things, like demons or a woman who saw a nurse sawing off her arms and legs.

C oronavirus: COVID-19 patient describes seeing visions of demons

They knew he liked Pink Floyd, so put on their 1973 classic The Dark Side of the Moon.

"At first I thought, 'cool music,'" he told Yahoo. "But then I was just in this delirium... this dystopian world."...

I can see how that album could induce visions, especially if eyes are closed, it's got some interesting passages.

But I'm sure this woman had a vision she didn't want:

"I woke up to something that I would never have imagined," one woman told the paper. "A nurse was standing over her hospital bed with a saw, cutting off her arms and legs."

Another described dying and attending his own funeral.

So I don't know if you got the idea that delusions are always things people want to happen, maybe sometimes, but clearly that's not always the case.

Before the research in Jim Oberg's post was known, it's understandable how UFO researchers like Hynek would discuss mental illness as the only other option to how witnesses could report a close encounter which didn't really happen, but in light of the new research, it seems Hynek proposed a false dichotomy when he asks "Do we have a phenomenon in which several people suffer temporary insanity at a given instant, but at no other time before or after?" and he suggests it must be either that or the incident really happened as they describe. See this excerpt from page 116 of his book "The UFO Experience"

Those two choices Hynek presents are not the only two options, that's why it's a false dichotomy. What the research in Oberg's pdf shows is that the capacity for misperceptions far exceeds what Hynek or other UFO researchers could have imagined. That people do describe close encounters (maybe within 500 feet) of things they see which in actuality are hundreds of kilometers away. I think it would blow Hynek's mind if he was still alive to learn that, because he obviously has no clue that's possible if you read that passage from his book above. And there's no suggestion that any temporary insanity or mentall illness or madness is involved in these perceptions, they are quite common, as you may see if you have the patience to wade though all 219 pages of Jim Oberg's pdf. There even people denying the UFO is what they are being told it is by scientists, saying the scientists must be lying. I suppose one might debate if that's mental illness but I think it's more like people on the low end of the Dunning Kruger scale who tend to deny the very science upon which the technology they use to make their internet posts is based.

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Good feedback Arby.

In particular I enjoyed your use of pointing out
false dichotomy's.

People often use false dichotomy as a prong in
a strawman attack.

Also I must say, that most of the self-delusion
I've looked into in the field of 'mysticism' primarily
was of the fantasy wish-fulfillment variety.

Iv'e known a lot of Jesuses in my life, and even
more self-appointed archangel Michaels and
1/2 Djinn and Watchers.

I've met MANY people who were absolutely convinced
that they were the same 'legendary being'.

What's especially said is when that 'legendary being'
never existed at all, not even in seed form.

As to your point on people deluding themselves
about things they SAY they didn't believe in..
that's an interesting topic.

I will have to look into it.

However I'd say, that at a primal level, most people
in western culture at least, (even you) 'believe
in demons'. That there are no 'demons' is rather
irrelevant.

You can deny this all you want. I've seen people
much like MM for example, suddenly freak out
when anomalous things started following them
along.. and as they were not ready for such things,
their mental health suffered. It's not hard to
'bennewitz' someone, unfortunately.

Kev

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Arby,

yes, the rivets made it all quite fascinating.

Well, so many things were fascinating.

The static electricity effects.

The paralysis.

If my imagination alone, had the power to
do all those effects (and I've not reported
on everything),

then I'm some sort of demigod or something
(i'm not).

That it happened 2 days later, after I had
given up the experiment as failed, also
is quite fascinating to me.

(there is an 'occult' explanation for that,
but that's irrelevant.. still quite
fascinating).

Last night something extraordinary happened – extraordinary in it’s own right but in the context of my recent posts on this thread perhaps even more so – you be the judge.

I will recount with as much detail as I can and then offer my opinion but would welcome any questions and thoughts.

Yesterday I returned home to a small Oxfordshire village from work at 7.05pm BST, entering the house where my partner was watching TV and my son, who works with me, disappeared upstairs to his pc. It was night but with a bright half moon in a generally clear sky but with wisps of cloud. I took some rubbish out the back door to the bin round the side and on the way back stopped for a smoke on the rear porch.

Through the branches of a tree opposite that had lost it’s leaves I saw two bright white lights slowly rise in tandem, as if they were attached to the wings of a small plane. However they were solid bright lights, not blinking, with no red or green light visible which is what secured my attention. As they rose in height / started to get closer (it seemed as if it was travelling straight towards me) I heard a sound similar to a single engine prop driven plane. I say similar in that I imagine if I recorded it the majority of people would recognise it as just that, however there was something not right about it and I believe, if investigated, the sound would not have been able to be replicated by a conventional plane.

Note that I live under a London trans-Atlantic flight path so seeing fairly high-altitude jets is commonplace. There is also a small airfield some 5 miles away and the area seems popular for light aircraft flying lower but I have never seen one at night.

The lights were now clear of the tree (some 10 seconds in to the sighting) and were still rising and getting closer, at about the same speed as a light aircraft as the faux noise increased. I considered going in the house to alert the others but decided against it (see my earlier post about a sighting 15 years earlier) as I didn’t want to lose sight. I had two phones in my pocket and considered videoing but again decided not to, partially for the same reason but also I thought what would it matter, thinking of the likely response here to a couple of lights in the sky.

I could now determine it’s course (20 seconds in) and it was heading slightly to my East towards a patch of cloud nicely back lit by the moon. I shifted position so that I would get a good view of it against the cloud and could determine it’s outline. However as it exited from behind the cedar in the corner of my garden (I kept sight of it through the branches during this transition) I could see I was mistaken and it would be above that point. It was still moving at light aircraft speed and sounding similar and close to passing overhead (not directly, would estimate it was 200-300m distant and no more than 500m high – size between lights would be about 40mm at arms length).

I noticed it’s path would take it in front of a large bright star so I watched intently to again gain an idea of it’s outline as the star was blacked out. I was already convinced I was seeing something unusual but as it passed the star, it’s closest point to me, there were now 3 lights in a triangle as if it had two on each front wing and 1 on the back tail. Strangely I could see all 3, even though the front ones obviously projected, all 3 were just as bright and as it approached the star it was almost as if it had banked and presented a perfect triangle to me.

It then went past the star which was almost perfectly in the middle of the triangle and that star went straight through the triangle without dimming. I was concentrating hard and did not make a mistake, there was nothing solid behind the lights, the star was visible for the couple of seconds the triangle flew in front of it.

It then appeared to bank back to the level, the front two lights disappeared and I watched the single rear light recede, as did the noise, until it was blocked by a garage which was close to the viewable horizon anyway. Total sighting time maybe a minute and as a guess it would have travelled 2 – 3 miles in view. I went back inside, didn’t mention it (it isn’t a subject my partner is particularly interested in) and nothing else out of the ordinary occurred since.

So I either imagined this object and the conscious decisions it provoked during the imagining (either self-imagined or projected into my consciousness), someone is flying something around the like of which has never been seen elsewhere or the sighting was of something that doesn’t exist as our science knows it.

Coincidence considering my recent posts / thinking on the subject ?

I don’t believe so. The phenomenon (which is a term I use simply as a catch all to a myriad of subjects which may or may not be connected) has shown itself to exhibit practically omnipotent powers and a deep understanding of human nature. It seems to actually have, or to purposefully show, human properties in its actions – call it humour, mischievousness or something darker but as with this sighting it is sublime in it’s subtlety. I mean there I am questioning the nuts and bolts craft theory whilst relaying a sighting of a plane that wasn’t – and here I see straight through another plane that wasn’t.

So was that the purpose behind it – or the only one – to reinforce my personal opinion ? It seems a lot of effort to go through although it may take only an infinitesimal amount of that which is available to exert. It may be an automatic function of the process that causes it to be with no conscious thought involved, although I would like to think otherwise. And as always even if guessing purpose correctly – why ?

a reply to: chunder

Thank you for sharing your perception.

Frankly, for this particular set of perceptions, there's
not enough meat there, for me to get excited about it.

Someone like Arby or Jim or Bonez, or whomever
would say probably, that these discussions have
excited your imagination and that your mind
filled in a triangular shape that didn't exist.

I'd give that explanation a 75% chance of being
the correct one, as you didn't mention ANY of
the signatures of 'high strangeness'.

Do you feel this was a high strangeness event?

Fuzzy lights in the sky have never excited me.

I personally have seen 1 unusual thing in the
sky ever, and never before that, and never
after that.

Kev