Let's call this what it is.

a reply to: muzzleflash
First of all, if you're going to quote an external source it helps to actually link to it so I can look at it myself.

Second, there are many researchers/scientists/health experts making estimates right now -- many of them with vastly different conclusions. Sure there may well be many more infected that we haven't accounted for -- but to state it's 11x times more, or 100x times more -- is purely guess work -- and there's a massive difference between those two. Even if the death rate goes down to only marginally higher than that of the flu (though you'll find the vast majority of experts estimating it to be quite a bit higher) -- you have to consider the other characteristics of this virus which makes it much more infectious (the R0), the much longer incubation times, it's ability to spread from those who have it but are asymptomatic, it's ability to survive on surfaces for up to 17 days, etc.

All this means that even if it has the same death rate as the flu (likely higher), it has the potential to infect way more people then the flu does every year... and there will be WAY more deaths.

On top of that you also seem to be not factoring in the enormous strain it would place on top of the medical system, hospitals, ICU beds, ventilators, nurses & doctors... as we've clearly seen in Italy, once this happens the death rate grows exponentially higher.

The point is, even if we use the most conservative/unrealistic estimates -- it's still far worse than the flu -- and with the potential to be far worse on top of that.

a reply to: Navieko

I will just exact copy paste another post:



Hey Zombie! The "Common Cold" kills tons of ppl every year! I'm not downplaying anything! Y'all definitely lost your freaking minds.

Want to learn the basics?
National Institutes of Health

On average, adults get 4 to 6 colds per year, while children get 6 to 8 of them. Colds cause about 500 FP visits per 1000 patients per year.1 Because colds occur all year round, the total burden of illness caused by them is greater than the burden caused by seasonal influenza. Colds account for 40% of all time lost from jobs and 30% of all absenteeism from school.2 

There are more than 200 viruses, continuously changing, that are associated with the common cold; coronaviruses are generally associated with more severe symptoms than are rhinoviruses.

A British study of people older than 60 years of age who had colds was able to isolate a causative virus in only 43% of patients,3 and Finnish researchers were able to isolate viruses from 138 of 200 university students with colds.4 Colds occur all year round but are more common in the winter months.2,5

About Influenza from the NIH:

The “flu” has become a popular catch-all term to describe anything from a bad cold to stomach distress. But the real flu, influenza, is a defined illness that many public health officials dread most.

There are like 5 million cases of flu worldwide - but if we all get colds multiple times a year that means there are over 20 billion cases of cold yearly covering all sorts of viruses.

7 billion multiplied by several cases per person equals tens of billions of cases.

This virus is not special, it fits somewhere in the middle of the rest.

You know how many deaths the "Cold" causes yearly? No one does because it's too hard to classify or track adequately, but with over 20 billion cases ++ a year, it's definitely a lot more than the Flu!

20 billion++ cases of the cold per year!!

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: Navieko
I will just exact copy paste another post:

Yes well that does make it simple for you to ignore/gloss over my points I guess? Are you even capable of rebutting my points on your own or just copy paste the same generic rubbish?

a reply to: muzzleflash

The favor has been done for me so many times it's my pleasure to return it when it matters.

Which is the main factor in Denying Ignorance .

a reply to: Navieko

The people still in denial will end up being the biggest spreaders of this disease, they will do it with impunity and then lay blame where than can when reality eventually reaches them.

It's going to be one scary road ahead of us all...

originally posted by: Navieko

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: Navieko
I will just exact copy paste another post:

Yes well that does make it simple for you to ignore/gloss over my points I guess? Are you even capable of rebutting my points on your own or just copy paste the same generic rubbish?

Yes well that does make it simple for you to ignore/gloss over my points

One cannot ignore/gloss over what does not yet exist.

Are you even capable of rebutting my points on your own or just copy paste the same generic rubbish?

You are doing an excellent job of self-rebuttal , why should one put forth effort in that case.

originally posted by: Gothmog
You are doing an excellent job of self-rebuttal , why should one put forth effort in that case.

If you think so, please elaborate? Point by point -- in this case I'd absolutely love to be proven wrong... I won't hold my breath while I wait though.

Let's call this what it is.

Bullsh__ is sh__ that comes from a bull
This is a virus (cold) that came from China.

Get it ?
Got it ?
Good

originally posted by: Navieko

originally posted by: Gothmog
You are doing an excellent job of self-rebuttal , why should one put forth effort in that case.

If you think so, please elaborate? Point by point -- in this case I'd absolutely love to be proven wrong... I won't hold my breath while I wait though.

Easy . Go back and read your posts...
I did .
You didn't ?

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Navieko

The people still in denial will end up being the biggest spreaders of this disease, they will do it with impunity and then lay blame where than can when reality eventually reaches them.

It's going to be one scary road ahead of us all...

So you want to destroy the Constitution and Liberty to save a few lives?

We've sacrificed millions upon millions of our children for Liberty's sake and you're ready to sacrifice Liberty this easily over a cold?

You're acting like HIV went airborne.
Calm the # down.
This has gone too far.

a reply to: Navieko

If there were 20 billion cases of the flu every year you'd see a huge death toll.

Way way bigger than this.

It is officially a cold virus.
The media lied to you about it's severity.
It's many many times less than they are presenting it - and I've proven that succinctly.

You have no points other than you're scared and unwilling to consider the MSM lied.

a reply to: Gothmog
Yeah what I thought... you've got nothing to contribute but the continued drunken ramblings/trolling.

a reply to: muzzleflash
Not sure what you're on about with the "MSM" ... I don't watch TV and any stats/data I refer to is collected directly from published studies by medical experts who actually know what they're talking about. I think I'll believe them before some random guy on the internet who is clearly pulling numbers out of his ass.

originally posted by: Navieko
a reply to: Gothmog
Yeah what I thought... you've got nothing to contribute but the continued drunken ramblings/trolling.

I'm completely sober unlike most people. I don't even take meds.

Just because I disagreed strongly with your beliefs AND actually supplied excellent reasoning with sources does not make me trolling.

You are dismissive when in reality you're failing to actually follow up on a debate.

a reply to: muzzleflash
Might want to double check who I replied to...

originally posted by: Navieko
a reply to: muzzleflash
Not sure what you're on about with the "MSM" ... I don't watch TV and any stats/data I refer to is collected directly from published studies by medical experts who actually know what they're talking about. I think I'll believe them before some random guy on the internet who is clearly pulling numbers out of his ass.

I didn't pull that number out of nowhere.

The National Institutes of Health is the most respected source of medical info in the world.

So you're saying they're wrong?
That a lowly cold virus is worth destroying society over? It's soooooo deadly!?

Please think.

a reply to: FyreByrd
Nicknames happen. Syphilis was originally known in England as "the French pox". I believe it was known in France as "the Italian pox". For that matter, how "Spanish" was the influenza?
Specialists in any field tend to object to popular nicknames replacing official names, but never make much headway.
In any case, it is convenient for communication that two separate events (SARS and this one) should have different labels, even if they are so nearly the same thing.

P.S. However, I believe modern medicine has succeeded in renaming the disease which I caught (twice!) under the name "German Measles".

a reply to: muzzleflash

Here maybe this neat and tidy diagram/picture will help you see the reality:

As you've already pointed out, the flu we already know causes enough problems as it is, for which we have vaccinations (flu shots) for and a healthcare system geared up and ready to take on the more or less predicted amount of people that'll need to be hospitalized because of it... now throw on top of that this novel virus, for which there is no vaccination, and which clearly has deadlier characteristics compared to the flu we know, as illustrated in the picture above...

now what do you think happens when the ICU's run out of beds, ventilators, masks, medical staff, etc, to be able to treat/handle the massive influx of patients requiring ICU care (whether it be for the coronavirus or anything else)? I'll give you a hint... look at Italy.

And btw, there are medical sources that indicate some of those stats for coronavirus in the picture above are the optimistic estimates.

a reply to: Navieko

I already linked you to the so called experts saying, based on science, that the infection rate is 10 to 100x higher than "confirmed cases".

Most ppl are not tested, and even more didn't even have symptoms to begin with to know they had it.

Therefore your 1 to 3% death rate numbers are grossly inaccurate. Whoever is pushing this abuse of statistics to spread fear is misleading everyone.

The real death rate is less than .1% almost certainly based on these estimates and possibly as low as .03%.

The flu still is more deadly.

a reply to: Navieko

The hospitalization rates are probably out of context and misleading too.

The doctors are so scared due to MSM fear hysteria that they're hospitalizing cases that are mild just out of caution when normally they are far more dismissive of stuff like this.

I also believe far more are put on ventilation than actually need it.

It's due to overreacting not severity.

Soon everyone will see this is true when all this blows over....