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Originally posted by emile
2) Russia got some progress of plasma tech
Originally posted by Fenix F 308
intelgurl did you read the secret dockument, or what ?
[edit on 3-3-2005 by Fenix F 308]
Originally posted by BillHicksRules
Lets take a point by point look at the items you feel make the Raptor "a quantum leap forward"
Supercruise - You get where you need to go faster or you get to bug out quicker. Nice to have but hardly a "quantum leap". Concorde had supercruise in the 60's.
Thrust Vectoring - Technology has been around for 15-20 years and in that time many new aircraft have been created and only one using it. Makes me think that it is not all it is cracked up to be. Look at UAV and UCAV development. Less than half of them plan to include it.
Stealth - Great at BVR useless at visual range engagements. The US has always had a political problem with authorising large scale BVR engagements and quite rightly so given the errors it has made and the friendly fire incidents it has had.
Another point to consider is that the weapons deployed on the Raptor are those currently available to the existing USAF fleet so no "quantum leap" in capabilities there.
I see the raptor is more like a evolution of the F-15 and F-16 than a quantum leap forward.
AMM
Generally, stealth shapes do not mix well with fast shapes
Originally posted by Murcielago
AMM
Generally, stealth shapes do not mix well with fast shapes
- says who?
The F-117 was the first stealth aircraft, one of the bigger reasons it was subsonic was because of its (lack-of) aerodynamics, the reason all parts of it are flat and not curves is because computers wern't yet good enough.
The B-2 was subsonic because its a bomber and going subsonic gives you better range and no sonic boom to alert the enemy when your at their front door.
Speed had nothing to do with stealth.
Originally posted by BillHicksRules
AMM,
Good post in general but I have to pick you up on one glaring error.
"The Raptor represents THE LARGEST leap in technology ever in fighter aircraft"
Really? I can think of at least two LARGER leaps in fighter tech in the past, care to hazard a guess as to what I am referring?
Cheers
BHR
Originally posted by BillHicksRules
AMM,
Good post in general but I have to pick you up on one glaring error.
"The Raptor represents THE LARGEST leap in technology ever in fighter aircraft"
Really? I can think of at least two LARGER leaps in fighter tech in the past, care to hazard a guess as to what I am referring?
Cheers
BHR
Originally posted by BillHicksRules
AMM/Warlord,
I was thinking of the change from biplanes to monoplanes and the change from props to jets.
Cheers
BHR
Originally posted by BillHicksRules
AMM/Warlord,
I was thinking of the change from biplanes to monoplanes and the change from props to jets.
Cheers
BHR
Originally posted by waynos
Murcielago, AMM is absolutely spot on with this one. designing for stealth and designing for high speed have always been mutually exclusive until the demands of ATF focussed minds on how this problem could be solved, or rather circumnavigated.
ATB was never going to be supersonic for this very reason and it was figured that payload, range and low observability would be the critical factors in what became the B-2, going for supersonics too would have complicated matters out of all proportion and almost certainly have doomed the programme to failure, 21 B-2's are better than nothing.
The Raptor is indeed a huge technical leap forward in fighter design for the reasons that AMM has stated as it manages to incorporate stealth attributes that are maintained through most of the flight regime while still being a state of the art fighter, these are two separate disciplines that the Raptor brings together in one airframe. Supersonic design is about much more than highly swept wings and lots of power and in the F-117 generation it was totally incompatible with the requirements for stealth.
The technical term for the fact that it could not be done then but can be done now is 'progress'. Raptor is the mark of a new generation in fighter design because it achieves something that was previously impossible.
When you say that the reason the F-117 was subsonic was down to the computers of the time, it is akin to saying the reason the P-51 wasn't a jet fighter was because they didn't have jets then, a bit pointless don't you think?
[edit on 4-3-2005 by waynos]
Originally posted by BillHicksRules
Broadsword,
I have to say I agree with the Gerbilmeister.
The F/A-22 whilst being a better aircraft than those that came before it does not offer a significant leap forward in capabilities for the USAF over the F-15. The semi-stealth and supercruise are nice to have but when it will be employing the same weaponry as the current F-15 fleet then it does seem to be a step forward rather than the leap that it is being sold as.
BHR