F-22 Update

"To qualify, the general completed more than 50 hours in aircraft systems and avionics academics, received stealth-tactics training emphasizing integrated avionics and super cruise technology, and completed five simulator sessions and three Raptor flights."

“Every air force in the world is trying to figure out how to beat our Air Force,” General Jumper said. One of the ways to do that is through advanced surface-to-air missile systems.

"The Russians have built next-generation surface-to-air missiles that many nations in the world are now adding to their inventory, General Jumper said."

"The Raptor has the ability to dominate that airspace. So, it is not too early to get the Raptor out there, The Raptor will also ensure the safety of U.S. pilots against advanced adversary aircraft, General Jumper said.
”

"The Russians never got out of the fighter-building business. They are delivering aircraft to nations around the world that outperform anything else we have -- except the Raptor,”

Source

Gen. John P. Jumper is Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. As Chief, he serves as the senior uniformed Air Force officer responsible for the organization, training and equipage of more than 700,000 active-duty, Guard, Reserve and civilian forces serving in the United States and overseas. As a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the general and other service chiefs function as military advisers to the Secretary of Defense, National Security Council and the President.

Well, I will be posting updates throughout the time, about updates that are important and some that have important facts. I think that the F-22 is a important factor is USA air dominance, their is budget cuts right now, but General Jumper is pushing for more to kill the threat.

What is your all opinions with the short amount of F-22's vs future threats.

Does F-22 Raptor do can keep M1.58 speed with its Max. Range? Could you give me some evidence to prove this point which manifest F-22 Raptor has quality of supercruise? Many people in China said that if supercruise just means to keep a supersonic speed for a longer period of time, well then MiG-31 also has the quality of supercruise.
So the problem is how long on earth a F-22 Raptor can keep supersonic on M. 1.5? Is it in whole range? I think that except with whole range, F-22 do can keep its supersonic on M1.5, we could think it is a suprcrise fighter, if not how do we explain Foxhound which can keep supersonic for 20 minutes. On this condition, flying without afterburner hasn't any meaning.
Now an evidence of materiel is the most important thing!

The Raptor, IMO, should be a tech testbed. Its not really that great or spangly.

It pioneers great new tech, yes, but I don't feel this tech is advanced enough on said plane yet. The tech is like a new way of getting what is already availible at this stage. It NEEDS more work.

The Raptors current release details, if true, make it a stunnigly average yet expensive craft. Its only REAL bonus in terms is the semi-stealth ability, which for the cash... just ain't worth it.

In real terms, its a slight advantage over the current stuff. Hopefully they'll update them soon!

The next big tech leap is yet to come, I feel. And there's alot that can shoot down a Raptor out there. But it all depends on the guy flying the plane.
Case in Question, 3 WW1 Biplanes fending off the Luftwaffe in WW2.

Average? The Raptor is an amazing aircraft, one that outperforms everything out there. It has no match. And what is with people calling it "amazingly expensive?" The F-15 was just as expensive when it first came out.

You do not create aircraft slightly improved over what your opponents have. You create something completely next-generation. When the Soviets had tanks that were better than the U.S. M60 tanks, the U.S. didn't make any tank that was a slightly improved version of the Soviet tank. It made the Abrams, which was lightyears ahead of anything the Soviets had.

Same goes for the F/A-22.

Broadsword,

I have to say I agree with the Gerbilmeister.

The F/A-22 whilst being a better aircraft than those that came before it does not offer a significant leap forward in capabilities for the USAF over the F-15. The semi-stealth and supercruise are nice to have but when it will be employing the same weaponry as the current F-15 fleet then it does seem to be a step forward rather than the leap that it is being sold as.

Cheers

BHR

Originally posted by Teh_Gerbil
The next big tech leap is yet to come, I feel. And there's alot that can shoot down a Raptor out there. But it all depends on the guy flying the plane.
Case in Question, 3 WW1 Biplanes fending off the Luftwaffe in WW2.

I would be interested in knowing what incident you are referring to.

Would this be the defense of Malta by 3 Gloucester Gladiators? (Faith, Hope and Charity)

If so then They are not WW1 fighers, they went into service with the RAF in the 1930's. Nevertheless you are absolutely correct about the qualitiy of the pilot being the major factor.

Insofar as the performce of the F-22 is concerned. It doesnt really matter. A high concentration of heavy calibre rapid fre AAA will always make low level ground attacks deadly. Smart weapons could probably be countered in this way to as in the Phalanx defence system. Thererfore operations against a well equipped and prepared enemy will always impinge upon communications. If the F-22 is able to penetrate, or assist in the penetration of, the enemy's defenses and destroy his com systems then it will have proved itself to be a useful aircarft. If not then it is a multi million piece of eye-candy.

Am i the only one interested in that they admitted that russian planes are better?

The Raptor might not be revolutinonary in every way, it IS beter than anything out there.

It's Stealthier than the F-15 and the F-16 will ever be, it has Thrust Vectoring, Supercruise, great radar etc.

The Russians are close in becoming in par with the Raptor and won't stop until they are, the chinese are trying it and probably India too now.

I do think the US still needs the raptor and MORE IMPORTANTLY the new upgraded AMRAAM!

Originally posted by tomcat ha
Am i the only one interested in that they admitted that russian planes are better?

Well that wasnt exactly news to me. It was good tosee that the guy was honest though.

There's a lot of misconceptions of the Raptor, its internal fuel load is only about 18300 lbs, consequently its range is quite modest by a heavy fighter standard, only 595 nm in a purely subsonic profile, granted that's pretty good with internal fuel, but compared to any Sukhoi Flanker series aircraft, quite poor, it will be as reliant on mid air refuelling as current jets.




This chart from an official USAF site shows the increase in range of the proposed FB model has over the basic fighter.

Here's another update on the F/A-22:

"Pentagon Contract Announcement
(Source: US Department of Defense; issued Feb. 18, 2005)
Lockheed Martin Corp., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $414,364,104 firm fixed price contract.

This effort supports F/A-22 Lot 6 Production Advanced Buy for twenty-four (24) Lot 6 aircraft and associated equipment.

Total funds have been obligated. This work will be complete by October 2005."

Originally posted by intelgurl
Here's another update on the F/A-22:

"Pentagon Contract Announcement
(Source: US Department of Defense; issued Feb. 18, 2005)
Lockheed Martin Corp., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $414,364,104 firm fixed price contract.

This effort supports F/A-22 Lot 6 Production Advanced Buy for twenty-four (24) Lot 6 aircraft and associated equipment.

Total funds have been obligated. This work will be complete by October 2005."

Am I missing something here? My math shows thats $17,265,171 per plane. This a special deal?

Originally posted by skippytjc

Originally posted by intelgurl
Here's another update on the F/A-22:

"Pentagon Contract Announcement
(Source: US Department of Defense; issued Feb. 18, 2005)
Lockheed Martin Corp., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $414,364,104 firm fixed price contract.

This effort supports F/A-22 Lot 6 Production Advanced Buy for twenty-four (24) Lot 6 aircraft and associated equipment.

Total funds have been obligated. This work will be complete by October 2005."

Am I missing something here? My math shows thats $17,265,171 per plane. This a special deal?

By the sound of it, its a completion of payment or extra payment for the total order value for a previous order.

From what I have read, the F/A-22 offers an enormous leap forward in capabilities over the F-15. The F/A-22 is not made solely just to dogfight other aircraf,t but to be able to penetrate enemy airspace undetected, which is becoming troublesome with all of these new anti-aircraft systems out there that are cheap to purchase.

The F/A-22 is designed to penetrate these. The F/A-22 is not semi -stealth, it is stealth period. It is an aircraft that is very, very difficult to detect. It gives off no heat signature so it would be very hard to target it with missiles, and it can outmaneuver virtually anything out there.

And no, the Russians are no where near to matching the Raptor in regards to an overall aircraft. In terms of maneuvers, aerobatics-wise, yes, Russian planes are very good and one even can perform maneuvers the Raptor cannot.

But in terms of an aircraft with the stealth capabilities and avionics alone that the F/A-22 has, nothing out there is even close. The F/A-22 is an enormous leap forward from the F-15 in maneuverability, speed, range, and avionics. It is a plane that could take out the enemy without their even knowing it is watching them, and then even if they spotted it, they'd have a hard time targeting it with missiles at all. It also has a very high altititude, which I believe right now is classified.

Lockheed didn't pull any punches in designing this aircraft. It was truly made to be the best of the best. It can fly completely in stealth with its weapons inside, or if need be, it can fly with extra weapons externally. But even then, it can still outrun virtually any other aircraft if need be, it can go to very high altitudes, and it gives off no heat signature, so even if you detected it, it would still be difficult to shoot it down.

The F/A-22 incorporates avionics into it that allows it to engage in electronic warfare with the enemy; it is an aircraft that could literally mess with the electronics in other aircraft to screw them up and thus it wouldn't even have to fire a missile. Russian planes are cheaper for a reason. They are great in aerobatics, but aisde from that, they're not much more advanced. They are getting close to the F-15 in regards to avionics, but in regards to the F/A-22, that aircraft is a quantum leap ahead in avionics and abilities. And by the time, if even, the Russians get an aircraft with avionics to match the Raptor, the Raptor will have an upgraded avionics package I am sure, same as how the F-15 and F-16 get upgraded versions.

The Raptor is truly a next-generation aircraft.

Russia is on par with the F15's avionics.

The Flanker series out manourver it. Also, Russia can detec it. Hell, they could detect the SR-71, they just had nothing that could shoot it down.

But it is not Stealth period. It shows up on Radar. Stealth and supercruise seem to be its main selling points here. I daresay the Russians ar working on a missile that will knock it out the sky right now. They tend to do this.

Russia is worknig towards catching up to it? Dare I say the Russians made the last tech leap with the Flanker? They are now working on the next plane, which will apparently be using tech from the S-47 as well. Namley with wings and canards. That thing is going to rock!

Im sorry, the Flanker doesn't seem like all its sold to be to me. Kind of like the Hummer H2, its old stuff with a few added features. Sure, its "Stealth" ability might be good in kicking backwards countries (The US's current policiy) but at the head to the feild, any Advanced country will know when a raptor is entering its airspace. Its not 100% invisible. Sorry.

Oh, and the S-300 will shoot it down according to resources.

Russian Avionics are dated? Excuse me, an SU-30 can shhot an F-15 before the F-15 relises there is an Su-30 there.

So, price wise. Someone buys as many Su-30's as they can for the price, and another country with the same budget buys the amount of F-22's for that price.

I know who would win.

The F-22 is one small step into the future. Now we must wait for the giant leap.

Originally posted by GrOuNd_ZeRo
The Russians are close in becoming in par with the Raptor and won't stop until they are, the chinese are trying it and probably India too now.

I do think the US still needs the raptor and MORE IMPORTANTLY the new upgraded AMRAAM!

Wrong about Russian, China, and India developing a "super-fighter" capable of challenging the F-22, they are years behind the US.

The AIM-120D is currently in development.

Originally posted by tomcat ha
Russia is on par with the F15's avionics.

Russia isn't even close, so don't compare.

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567

Originally posted by tomcat ha
Russia is on par with the F15's avionics.

Russia isn't even close, so don't compare.

Su-30 in US conducted trails beats the F-15.

Originally posted by Teh_Gerbil

Originally posted by Hockeyguy567

Originally posted by tomcat ha
Russia is on par with the F15's avionics.

Russia isn't even close, so don't compare.

Su-30 in US conducted trails beats the F-15.

How many times have we been through this? A dozen maybe? And apparently is still hasn't sunk through.

Everyone knows that the US pilots were handicapped by a signifigant margin, but in a real scenario the F-15's would dominate.