The Latest: The new alternative facts: ‘Truth isn’t truth’

originally posted by: neo96

Truth isn’t truth.”

The best example of this is the $1,000,000 falsfied dossier used to instigate the last two years of Neo McCarthyism.

Heh. Do you remember who McCarthy's lawyer was?
Trump's mentor, Roy Cohn.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
Giuliani's involvement in this whole thing is very curious. At his age with his prestige and his history, he doesn't need this at all. Why would he even tarnish his name with Trump? I don't know what I smell but I smell something.

Two words...Lolita Express.
Both Trump and Giuliani were on board on Lolita Express at same time.
It must be it. Believe me.

a reply to: Phage

Ask me if I care.

After all Clinton LOSING was Russia's 'fault'.

It didn't have ANYTHING to do with her being a snip candidate.

a reply to: neo96

I disagree.

a reply to: network dude

We have members of the US Government who are current employees, plotting for the removal of the elected President, and they do this, without enough evidence to remove him by the proper channels. The fact that you and all other opposition don't see any fault there, scares me a good bit.

Please explain - plotting? How so? Were people plotting to get rid of Nixon?

What would be the proper channels?

Evidence? Do you claim to know what evidence there is or isn't?

Humor me

I fully get you don't like Trump, but do you like the system that has protected the UNITED STATES since it's inception?

Our system is imperfect, but we do have checks and balances to counter the likes of Nunes, who by all accounts is plotting to protect a criminal

:-)

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Kharron
I realize, however, that I'm preaching to the choir. Most members on ATS have come out and said that they agreed the President was a liar, but that they are ok with it -- for what reason I don't know. But at least most people agree he is a liar.

The only thing I still don't understand is why they choose to listen to a liar. If you know someone lies to you, why do you still cheer that behavior on? Why do you fall for it and repeat it?

what exactly do you mean here? What is it that "they" do, that makes you think they buy Trump's lies?

How about re-tweet his tweets, how about repeat his words and statements as if they were true. How about take his word on anything.

'They' who do this are the they I was talking about. A lot of people on here do actually realize that once you admit to someone being a liar you should no longer quote that person or believe anything that person says. Some people do not get that concept yet -- they say, yes he is a liar and then stick to every word he says.

That to me is insane.

so after "this plan will save you money, and if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", the entire US should have ignored everything Obama said after that?

Is this a "but, but Obama" thing?

Did I say or act somewhere like Obama was the messiah, like the majority of ATS posters are acting about this politician?

Please show me where.

you didn't, but if you read the post YOU made that I quoted, you were on a high horse, explaining to me all about how when you are lied to, you should disregard anything the "liar" tells you. I don't agree, and wanted to make sure you know why. Have you ever lied to anyone?

I'm not on a high horse, you've just dug a very deep hole for yourself, but I've explained this in a previous thread.

Do people really not understand the implications of admitting to someone being a liar?

From that point on you have the option of retracting your support or continuing it, but at the risk of appearing to be a liar as well, or appearing insane.

Only an insane person would follow who they admit to be a liar, right? And only a liar would lie about saying someone is a liar, when they don't think so.

I fully expect everyone on these forums who has over the past few months admitted to Trump being a liar to withdraw their support. Should they not, it either tells the rest of us a lot about their own integrity or about their state of mind. How else do you rationally explain someone willingly believing a person they know to be a liar?


Edit to add: Must run, family beckons. But I will be back to reply more in a few hours hopefully. Thank you all for reading.

a reply to: Kharron

I see you standing there admiring this tree of lies. Do you recognize or realize that your are surrounded by a forest of lies that contains that one insignificant tree among a multitude of others? Others that are much bigger and drip with black sap of despair. Is it comforting to just concentrate on the one lone tree at the exclusion of others.

Maybe that tree was specifically put there to draw your attention away from all of the other putrid rot that you are surrounded by and you're swallowing it, hook, line and sinker.

Kind of sad.

a reply to: angeldoll

Translation : The truth is whatever confirms my Anti Trump prejudice.

Thanks for playing. Your parting gift is a years subscription to MSNBC online.


.......oh...you already have that?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: neo96

I disagree.

Why ?

She rigged her primary, and marched out foreign nationals at her convention.

Guess we'll chalk that up to inconvenient TRUTHS.

a reply to: neo96

Why ?

Because the fact that she was a crappy candidate had a lot to do with her losing the election.

You said:

It didn't have ANYTHING to do with her being a snip candidate

I disagreed.

a reply to: DAVID64

Translation : The truth is whatever confirms my Anti Trump prejudice.

Nail on the head!

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Kharron
I realize, however, that I'm preaching to the choir. Most members on ATS have come out and said that they agreed the President was a liar, but that they are ok with it -- for what reason I don't know. But at least most people agree he is a liar.

The only thing I still don't understand is why they choose to listen to a liar. If you know someone lies to you, why do you still cheer that behavior on? Why do you fall for it and repeat it?

what exactly do you mean here? What is it that "they" do, that makes you think they buy Trump's lies?

How about re-tweet his tweets, how about repeat his words and statements as if they were true. How about take his word on anything.

'They' who do this are the they I was talking about. A lot of people on here do actually realize that once you admit to someone being a liar you should no longer quote that person or believe anything that person says. Some people do not get that concept yet -- they say, yes he is a liar and then stick to every word he says.

That to me is insane.

so after "this plan will save you money, and if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", the entire US should have ignored everything Obama said after that?

Is this a "but, but Obama" thing?

Did I say or act somewhere like Obama was the messiah, like the majority of ATS posters are acting about this politician?

Please show me where.

you didn't, but if you read the post YOU made that I quoted, you were on a high horse, explaining to me all about how when you are lied to, you should disregard anything the "liar" tells you. I don't agree, and wanted to make sure you know why. Have you ever lied to anyone?

I'm not on a high horse, you've just dug a very deep hole for yourself, but I've explained this in a previous thread.

Do people really not understand the implications of admitting to someone being a liar?

From that point on you have the option of retracting your support or continuing it, but at the risk of appearing to be a liar as well, or appearing insane.

Only an insane person would follow who they admit to be a liar, right? And only a liar would lie about saying someone is a liar, when they don't think so.

I fully expect everyone on these forums who has over the past few months admitted to Trump being a liar to withdraw their support. Should they not, it either tells the rest of us a lot about their own integrity or about their state of mind. How else do you rationally explain someone willingly believing a person they know to be a liar?

Trump was elected for a 4 year term. he has served 2 of them. (almost) So far, even with his lying, with the special council that seems to have been made from a lie(dossier) and all the other distractions the opposition has created, Trump has managed to get some things done that I agree with and like. He has done some things I don't like as well. But overall, my expectations were quite low, only that he not start any new wars. He has exceeded my wishes at this point. I don't have to believe a word he says to like Gorsuch as a SCOTUS pick and like Kavanaugh.

If your position is that once you are lied to, you retract support, please explain who in the US government you do support. Who has never lied.

I say this from the edge of the deep hole I have dug.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Ok,

True: Trump said Mexico is sending rapists and drug dealers as illegal immigrants.
False: media narrative picked up by willing fools that Trump said all Mexican immigrants are rapists.

You see if you butcher the whole truth and take a snippet of what someone said you can make up any 'truth' you want.

It's fairly obvious Gulliani was talking about things Trump might say in an interview that would be taken out of context or skewed to get him in trouble... and yet it may still be true that he said the actual words that got him in trouble.

Not really difficult to understand.

Get it, sport? Or are you a little dense?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

are you familiar with Bruce Ohr? Do you believe that the IC is not largely anti-Trump even though they are "apolitical"?
All I know is what has come out this far, so I know what you and others know. Difference is, I don't like the parts where active government employees are working to remove an elected President BEFORE they have any proof of wrongdoing.

And I base the idea that proof of wrongdoing likely would be brought to light if it existed, based on the leaks thus far, and the fact that time is ticking each day, and Trump is still president. If you have proof he is guilty of something, show it, and we can all get behind Trump's removal. "I don't like the guy", isn't an impeachable offence.

And Nunes has to follow the same rules that exist and have existed for a while now. If he breaks the rules, there are quite a few eyes on him, and I fully believe he will be smacked down, if he was to fracture one.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Kharron

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Kharron
I realize, however, that I'm preaching to the choir. Most members on ATS have come out and said that they agreed the President was a liar, but that they are ok with it -- for what reason I don't know. But at least most people agree he is a liar.

The only thing I still don't understand is why they choose to listen to a liar. If you know someone lies to you, why do you still cheer that behavior on? Why do you fall for it and repeat it?

what exactly do you mean here? What is it that "they" do, that makes you think they buy Trump's lies?

How about re-tweet his tweets, how about repeat his words and statements as if they were true. How about take his word on anything.

'They' who do this are the they I was talking about. A lot of people on here do actually realize that once you admit to someone being a liar you should no longer quote that person or believe anything that person says. Some people do not get that concept yet -- they say, yes he is a liar and then stick to every word he says.

That to me is insane.

so after "this plan will save you money, and if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor", the entire US should have ignored everything Obama said after that?

Is this a "but, but Obama" thing?

Did I say or act somewhere like Obama was the messiah, like the majority of ATS posters are acting about this politician?

Please show me where.

you didn't, but if you read the post YOU made that I quoted, you were on a high horse, explaining to me all about how when you are lied to, you should disregard anything the "liar" tells you. I don't agree, and wanted to make sure you know why. Have you ever lied to anyone?

I'm not on a high horse, you've just dug a very deep hole for yourself, but I've explained this in a previous thread.

Do people really not understand the implications of admitting to someone being a liar?

From that point on you have the option of retracting your support or continuing it, but at the risk of appearing to be a liar as well, or appearing insane.

Only an insane person would follow who they admit to be a liar, right? And only a liar would lie about saying someone is a liar, when they don't think so.

I fully expect everyone on these forums who has over the past few months admitted to Trump being a liar to withdraw their support. Should they not, it either tells the rest of us a lot about their own integrity or about their state of mind. How else do you rationally explain someone willingly believing a person they know to be a liar?

Trump was elected for a 4 year term. he has served 2 of them. (almost) So far, even with his lying, with the special council that seems to have been made from a lie(dossier) and all the other distractions the opposition has created, Trump has managed to get some things done that I agree with and like. He has done some things I don't like as well. But overall, my expectations were quite low, only that he not start any new wars. He has exceeded my wishes at this point. I don't have to believe a word he says to like Gorsuch as a SCOTUS pick and like Kavanaugh.

If your position is that once you are lied to, you retract support, please explain who in the US government you do support. Who has never lied.

I say this from the edge of the deep hole I have dug.

I'll reply to you and then I really have to run. Thanks for reading and replying.

I see what you said as an issue, n.dude. The issue is the low standards we hold and then being ok with that. This has to change. We're not going to get anywhere as long as people have such low standards as to be ok with liars and then making excuses for it or making it appear ok, or having no other choice.

This applies to those who would vote for Hillary -- that shows equally low standards.

We can do better than both of these two past choices, and we're not going to get any better choices if we keep making excuses and supporting these two obvious and documented liars. Trump and Hillary both. Or anyone like them.

Btw, anyone who quotes Pink Floyd can't be all that bad. I know we disagree about politics, but I hope you don't take anything personally. Be back later.

a reply to: UKTruth

True: Trump said Mexico is sending rapists and drug dealers as illegal immigrants.

The findings in the second report (GAO-05-646R) are even more disturbing. This report looked at the criminal histories of 55,322 aliens that “entered the country illegally and were still illegally in the country at the time of their incarceration in federal or state prison or local jail during fiscal year 2003.” Those 55,322 illegal aliens had been arrested 459,614 times, an average of 8.3 arrests per illegal alien, and had committed almost 700,000 criminal offenses, an average of roughly 12.7 offenses per illegal alien

Out of all of the arrests, 12 percent were for violent crimes such as murder, robbery, assault and sex-related crimes; 15 percent were for burglary, larceny, theft and property damage; 24 percent were for drug offenses; and the remaining offenses were for DUI, fraud, forgery, counterfeiting, weapons, immigration, and obstruction of justice.

www.heritage.org...

12% of 700,000=84,000

a reply to: Kharron

there is only one guy here who I despise, everyone else, is like family. I don't take it personal, and hope you don't either. But until some better options are given, I don't feel guilty for making the choices I made. After two years, I still think we dodged a 15KT nuclear bullet. Be safe in whatever you are doing.

a reply to: UKTruth

Get it, sport? Or are you a little dense?

I get what you're trying to explain - but I don't think you're right

Giuliani is feeding the base and trying to push the crowd into believing Trump is being railroaded

He would have us believe that the media is leading Mueller's investigation. That the truth is being distorted and that there's more than one version of the truth - Trumps truth, and then everything else

Giuliani is trying rather desperately to make it look like nobody can be trusted, and that no matter what Trump says it will be perceived as a lie

Funny Giuliani. The media can't get enough of this story - true. But in order to say that they're reporting dishonestly someone would need to come up with verifiable evidence to the contrary

QAnon? ;-)

But perjury is just plain old perjury when you're sitting in that chair. Or, would you like to claim that you know the truth?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Trump is being railroaded.

Considering private servers, classified material, Weiners Laptop,illegal immigrants electioneering, and democratic primary's being rigged.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: UKTruth
Do you seriously not understand Giuliani's point?
It's not that difficult.

There is not truth, only the narrative. It's all subjective these days.

I do not object to this statement at all Ket. I think that this is a step forward for all of us, to understand what you are pointing out above. Left or right, this may be a step we all need to go through in coming to grasp the fullness of the challenges that face humanity. The need for individuals to rely upon our own courses rather than the established courses set down in stone for in some cases thousands of years.

And the bit about it being subjective,I think that we all need to realize that thinking that ''we'' are on to the ''truth'' while all those others are only dealing in subjective fantasy needs to be understood to be a universal mental log-jam.