Warning to the World: This is the New America

Originally posted by esdad71Why the hell would we go to war with China.

We are in direct competition with China over oil supply. They don't like the fact that we've basically been surrounding them, either.

This would create a superpower with unlimited resources and cheap labor.

Seeing the not-so-friendly writing on the wall, Russia and China are firming up a new strategic alliance. To think that the USA is the world's sole remaining superpower is naive. But what can we expect when today's academians push that fallacy?

Originally posted by estate

I do this with the knowledge that I will not hear car bombs and random gunfire all night from insurgents. I kiss my child and thank (insert your god or pagan here) each night that I live in America. What happened to all you patriots and your flags after 9/11? Where are you? Did you blame Bush 3 days after 9/11. No, you were scared, we all were, but we came together for the greater good of our nation. There was no Republican, Or Democrat, red or blue state, we were all Americans.

You know is places in the US that people live in fear of random shootings while sleeping in their American neighbors.

They are no insurgents of terrorist they are you fellow Americans.

My mother in PR is scare of sitting in her porch at night because drive by shootings in a neighborhood where houses are value in the hundreds of thousands of dollar's.

That is the way is has become in some places in our nation.

For some reason that part of your post kind of got to me.

Some places in the USA are ridiculously dangerous. Take South Phoenix, for example, there are burnt out crack houses everywhere, bars on every window and door, vicious dogs in many yards and thugs and druggies all over the place. Ya betta not be caught der when da sun go down.. I don't miss those streets at all.

Las Vegas's ghetto is even worse. The criminal element in places like these is insane. In L.A. during the riots (early 90's), the cops wouldn't go anywhere near the action. It was every man for himself.

The violence in many U.S. cities and towns is out of control. You know what the most sickening aspect of this is? I truly believe the powers that be like it that way. You know.. give 'em guns and let 'em kill each other.. it's easier for us that way..

Hey EastCoastKid, I think that article you posted made some valid points, but I think that guy is a little paranoid with some of the things he says.

For example, he says the videos he downloaded of the WTC collapsing showed explosions going off in perfect sequence; if explosions really went off in sequence, people would have seen it and said so. And I myself watched the buildings collapse on television. There were no explosions. The buildings collapsed due to fire.

He acts like this country has turned into Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany. You go to the average college campus, and you find more anti-Americanism than patriotism. You look at all the protests going on and so forth. This country is very free.

And I do not believe the media is controlled by any small group of people due to its sheer size. The American media is too large, and too opinionated. Some of it loves bush, some of it hates Bush, yada yada yada there are LOTS of opinions. It is simply too HUGE.

America is the most free country in the world right now; this guy says he was punched by a cop, he was probably punched because he was probably one of those extreme anti-government fanatics who tries to start riots and a cop probably punched him in some demonstration or something. You watch television, you'd think the police simply restrict the "rights" of these "protesters;" a good deal of them are America-hating, borderline rioters when you read about them, which makes thep olice respond aggressively to keep things in order.

The point is, yes, freedoms in this country are being slowly erroded, but we are still far free-er than any other nation, and we as a people must fight to ensure our freedoms remain.

Hell, look at the groups in the midwest, who are armed and do not pay taxes to the gov't; they've even had stand-offs with the F.B.I. These people are watched by the gov't, but it does not overrun them because in actuality, those people are right for what they're doing, pretty much. And the gov't knows it.

Then this guy talks about a secret police to get rid of anti-gov't folk (Homeland Security). Like I said, hit any college campus or hell, go look at a newspaper, and you see plenty of anti-government writers and folk. Not liking the U.S. gov't is nothing new.

We as a people must be aware of our gov't and do our best to keep our freedoms and fight for them, but there is no reason to get paranoid.

And yes, I am proud to like George Bush as our President. People act like he is so evil for supporting the Patriot Act (I am against the Patriot Act), HOWEVER, people seem to forget about how Bill Clinton tried to hand over forms of U.S. national sovereignty MULTIPLE times to the United Nations. And how he slashed our military down so much.

It is one thing if you lose control to the gov't; you can always fight the gov't in the end. It may be difficult, but you can do so. But if your very sovereignty is handed over to other nations, then you can be in real trouble.

Bush acts in what he thinks are the best interests of the United States. What he thinks isn't always right, but it isn't always wrong either, and he is a far better person than Clinton was or Gore would've been.

Always fight for your freedom; remember, a true patriot defends his country from outsiders AND from its own gov't, but keep it real as well. Don't go getting paranoid.

If you want to see a truly state-controlled media, go to North Korea, try to find a copy of the U.S. constitution or state publicly how much you despise Kim Jong II. See if you are ever even heard from again. That is true tyranny and oppression.

And EastCoastKid, yes, America is, at the moment, the world's only true remaining superpower. We have the most powerful military, the most powerful economy, the most political influence, and the only military with true global power projection.

That is a superpower. China is not this (it will probably become it in the future, but it is not so yet) and Russia is far off from becoming a superpower again.

[edit on 12-2-2005 by Broadsword20068]

Always fight for your freedom; remember, a true patriot defends his country from outsiders AND from its own gov't, but keep it real as well. Don't go getting paranoid.

Broadsword, I am curious: At what point would you recommend getting concerned? You contrast America with North Korea, but isn't that a bit extreme?

Personally, the word paranoia irritates me. It's more of an insult these days, and totally unfounded if one has actually done any research. 'Paranoid' was surely an adjective tossed at those who wanted a "Bill of Rights" included in the US Constitution as well. "Come on now, why would we need to list people's rights?! Aren't they obvious? Y'all are just being paranoid!"

As an American, how do you feel about being associated with torture, the killing of unarmed people and the economic looting of the third world? Is that the way the country who represents "The Free World" should be doing its business?

Are you the type who thinks we need to go into the mid-east and simply 'kick-a**'? Are you 'cool' with the development of an American internal spy agency? Speaking theoretically, what would indicate a fundamental change in the American way of life, in your view?




[edit on 13-2-2005 by smallpeeps]

Actually, I think the Bill of Rights is very logical, as the human rights are NOT always obvious. It depends on the people. The Bill of Rights lets people think. If you go to a country like North Korea, the idea of human rights may not even exist in a good deal of their people's heads.

And no, I didn't mean the word "paranoia" as an insult. I just mean people get way too worked up over stuff (like those people who say the U.S. gov't planted bombs or something at the bottom of the ocean to cause the tsunami(!?!)).

You should keep alert and aware and educated, but don't go crazy.

As an American, I do not like torture, though I mean $#*! happens. The U.S. gov't needs to prevent it as best they can, but no country has an entirely perfectly good population.

As for the killing of innocent folk, it is a war zone over there. It happens. they do not mean for it to happen, but that is what happens when a country goes into battle in an area.

As for "kicking @$$" in the middle-east, I am not for that, and the United States does not do that; if it did, you'd see Baghdad in rubble right now. The U.S. went in there over the belief of WMDs and to rid the area of a dictator who was causing a lot of instability to the region (and if he himself didn't, his sons surely would've in the future). Now he is gone and the U.S. is putting into a place a democratic gov't.

As for "hogging resources," yes, the U.S. is a country about freedom, however it is not our job to go around freeing everyone. We are a freedom-loving people. But one thing people need to learn also is a country has to think for itself, to keep itself secure as well. It cannot simply try to be a "citizen of the world," as if it is such, the rest of the countries around the world will simply manipulate it and use it. That is the cold truth.

Thus the United States must think about the United States in the end always.

In terms of a fundamental change in American life, well, if the freedom of speech was resticted is one (i.e. you say you hate the President and you disappear), the gov't tells you what to study, etc....in the United States, if you say you want to be a computer engineer (a difficult engineering discipline) but you are an average student in physics and mathematics, but it is what you want to do, you can still do it. There have been "average" folks in this very field who were told by professors they wouldn't succeed, to eventually surpass those very people later on.

In a non-free country, you have no choice. You'd do what the gov't tells you to. If you are good at labor, you'd be a laborer. You'd have no choice really.

The above are some examples of what, to me, would constitute a fundamental change in American society.

My point about the Bill of Rights is that it would not have been included in the Constitution if some people hadn't been 'paranoid'. You know the hjistory of its inclusion, right? How many fought it, including the handsome fellow on your ten-dollar US note?

So-called 'paranoia' serves the public quite well.

The U.S. went in there over the belief of WMDs and to rid the area of a dictator who was causing a lot of instability to the region (and if he himself didn't, his sons surely would've in the future). Now he is gone and the U.S. is putting into a place a democratic gov't.

What are your thoughts on the years prior to Iraq War II? Did the U.S. make an error in chumming up to Saddam back then? Do you feel that your leaders should be held accountable for their screw-ups? Clearly thousands of Americans would still have their arms, legs, life, etc if we had handled the situation right from the start, don't you agree?

From Wikipedia:

"Much of what Saddam received from the West however was not arms per se, but so-called dual-use technology -- ultra sophisticated computers, armored ambulances, helicopters, chemicals, and the like, with potential civilian uses as well as military applications. It is now known that a vast network of companies, based in the US and abroad, eagerly fed the Iraqi war machine right up until August 1990, when Saddam invaded Kuwait.[1 (www.cjr.org.../93/2/iraqgate.asp)]

The Iraq-gate scandal revealed that an Atlanta branch of Italy's largest bank, Banca Nazionale del Lavoro, relying partially on US taxpayer-guaranteed loans, funneled $5 billion to Iraq from 1985 to 1989. In August 1989, when FBI agents finally raided the Atlanta branch of BNL, the branch manager, Christopher Drogoul, was charged with making unauthorized, clandestine, and illegal loans to Iraq -- some of which, according to his indictment, were used to purchase arms and weapons technology."

Were you aware of your governments actions back then? If someone had stood up and said, "There's got to be a better way to handle the Islamic-Iranian state than to arm a dictator like Saddam." would you have called them 'paranoid'? What if someone had suggested, in 1980, that your tax dollars were going to allow equipment purchases that would be used against our own troops ten years later? 'Paranoia' at the time?

As for "hogging resources," yes, the U.S. is a country about freedom, however it is not our job to go around freeing everyone.

Then what are we doing in Iraq if not "freeing" people? Or do you mean the the U.S. is only comfortable "freeing" people with weapons?

Economics is the warfare of our age. Check out Confessions of an Economic Hit Man for more details. This book was written only recently and is one of the most powerful revelations of what our country has been doing to the world's poorest citizens. It is nothing short of economic assassination on a national scale.

Thus the United States must think about the United States in the end always.

As an American, I agree. If we do not wake up as to who's driving our nation, we will seriously wreck our country. These administrators who run our government now have made one error after another. Don't you care about what your government does to the rest of the world? Do you think it'll never end up on your doorstep?

In terms of a fundamental change in American life, well, if the freedom of speech was resticted is one (i.e. you say you hate the President and you disappear)

Don't you think that if people criticizing the President were 'disappeared', that would blow the illusion wide-open, even for folks like you who are not 'paranoid'? Isn't it obvious that evil people want to keep their evil hidden? Are you saying that when 'disappearings' begin happening, THEN it will be the time to get 'paranoid'? Won't it be too late by that time?

the gov't tells you what to study, etc

So we shouldn't dig deeply into the actions of our government until they step across this line and start telling people what jobs to take? Wouldn't your government have slipped out of your grasp by that point?




[edit on 13-2-2005 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I've been saying for some time now

Tell me about it

that the USA is no longer the great nation we all believed it was growing up.

I just got here last year and I think it's bitchin'!

Something insidious has transpired and the forces of darkness now reign supreme.

I believe you make reality into whatever you want it to be.

I prefer my rose colored glasses and everything is fine and dandy, especially since there hasn't been anymore attacks on us soil or around world with the embassy bombings and train bombings ya know?!

Awesome awesome...

Outwardly, things look/seem normal.. that is, until you disagree w/the powers that be and raise your voice.

How devious of them!

why are you trying to instill fear?!

Isn't that what you bitch about them for doing?!

Originally posted by TrueLies

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Something insidious has transpired and the forces of darkness now reign supreme.

I believe you make reality into whatever you want it to be.

I prefer my rose colored glasses and everything is fine and dandy,

Outwardly, things look/seem normal.. that is, until you disagree w/the powers that be and raise your voice.

why are you trying to instill fear?!

It's called a reality check, TruLies.

Thanks for the thread EastCoastKid - awesome.

Originally posted by soficrow
It's called a reality check, TruLies.
Thanks for the thread EastCoastKid - awesome.

No I wanna stay in my bubble thank you.. I was in yours once and had many anxiety attacks because you guys got me scared.

Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by ferretman
Some of you are really disgusting with the way you talk about your country America. For all your bitching and complaining and 'threats' about leaving........why haven't you left...if Canada is so much better then go live there.

The USA is the most desired country to live in, here one can accomplish almost anything.......very unlike anywhere else. So if your so miserable and can stand living in America then leave.

Hey hows the free health care oh yah and whats it like paying 50% tax rate to pay. Like it up there do ya. So are you like alot of these Canuk whiners. Cry about the US and then spend 8 hours a day ripping off our poor and old telemarketing here.

I did. American by birth, I bailed in November 2001 - cuz I saw the writing on the wall. I love America - and I love Canada too - well, I love the world I do. ...But I am very concerned about what I see happening.


.

I am wondering if the Pentagon would allow Americans to take control of their Congress again.

The Pentegon has no control of the Congress. The only way for the people to take the congress back is to have these clowns aply term limits to themselfs, which they wont. You would want to give up a job like represenitive or Senator. Where else in the world can John Kerry blow off 76% of his work days and still be paid and keep his job. Where else would a drunk degenerate like teddy kennedy find work.

Originally posted by thehamsamiam
Where else in the world can John Kerry blow off 76% of his work days and still be paid and keep his job. Where else would a drunk degenerate like teddy kennedy find work.

Only in America where a bunch of liberal(naive, emotionally based) lemmings live.


Good point!

The Pentegon has no control of the Congress.

Yes, but if the American people took Congress back and decided to throttle-back the march toward Hegemony and Empire, the Pentagon would surely 'distract' them.

So who's in control? Not the electorate.



[edit on 13-2-2005 by smallpeeps]

Originally posted by smallpeeps

The Pentegon has no control of the Congress.

Yes, but if the American people took Congress back and decided to throttle-back the march toward Hegemony and Empire, the Pentagon would surely 'distract' them.

So who's in control? Not the electorate.



[edit on 13-2-2005 by smallpeeps]

So now we are under military mashal law here. I missed that one.

Las Vegas's ghetto is even worse. The criminal element in places like these

I live in Las Vegas, the hood here is a joke. I will show places in NY that Satan wouldn't even go.

Originally posted by thehamsamiam
I live in Las Vegas, the hood here is a joke. I will show places in NY that Satan wouldn't even go.

Really. A joke, eh? That's very interesting. I wonder what the many, many victims of violent crime there would say to that?

I'll see ya NY, and raise ya one: 14th Street, District of Columbia.

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
For example, he says the videos he downloaded of the WTC collapsing showed explosions going off in perfect sequence; if explosions really went off in sequence, people would have seen it and said so.

The majority of today's American citizens are TV-programmed sheep. They will parrot whatever line the corporate media tells them to. Forget about what they actually saw. If people speak truth to power, they are marginalized, labled paranoid or worse, belittled and smeared. And in some cases, those who speak out wind up suicided.

He acts like this country has turned into Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany.

It's not a stretch to assume such. George W. Bush has assumed powers no other American president has ever held. (Abe Lincoln comes to mind. The difference is Lincoln had a clear objective in mind when he altered certain laws and they reverted back when his objective was met.)
This pResident thinks God put him here to be everyone's judge and jury. I find that logic to be quite insane.

You go to the average college campus, and you find more anti-Americanism than patriotism.

Many professors have been fired, harassed and put on watch/black lists for teaching the truth as they see it. Of course, they are all progressive to liberal.

This country is very free.

In this country, we are as free as our bank accounts are big.

And I do not believe the media is controlled by any small group of people due to its sheer size.

The U.S. media is owned by by about 7 companies. The big newspapers all have corporate parents who watch content very closely - at ground level. J-school graduates are as indoctrinated as cherry soldiers.

You watch television, you'd think the police simply restrict the "rights" of these "protesters;" a good deal of them are America-hating, borderline rioters when you read about them, which makes thep olice respond aggressively to keep things in order.

What you see on tv is often not what is actually happening. For example, the protests are barely covered at all. And unless its white cops clubbing some black guy, you will not see the police brutality. Why don't those tv "news" dummies ever talk about the strangely named free-speech zones? The Bush administration prefers the ol' blackout. Outta sight, outta mind.

Hell, look at the groups in the midwest, who are armed and do not pay taxes to the gov't; they've even had stand-offs with the F.B.I. These people are watched by the gov't, but it does not overrun them because in actuality, those people are right for what they're doing, pretty much. And the gov't knows it.

If that is the case, there is some benefit to the government. That's the only reason this would go on. WACO, RUBY RIDGE, anyone?

Then this guy talks about a secret police to get rid of anti-gov't folk (Homeland Security). Like I said, hit any college campus or hell, go look at a newspaper, and you see plenty of anti-government writers and folk. Not liking the U.S. gov't is nothing new.

Some are more visible than others. Some are more white than others. Some are mere tokens of opposition. I have seen op/eds KILLED (with my own eyes) that had already gone through the entire copy editing/design process. Why? Because they were just a tad bit too real.

Those who have most felt the hand of US government oppression post-9-11 are predominantly Arab/Muslim, as well as those individuals who have tried to defend them. Today its Muslims. Tomorrow maybe it'll be Christians.

And yes, I am proud to like George Bush as our President.

Bush (voted for once) and Clinton (voted for NEVER) are both world class liars.

Bush acts in what he thinks are the best interests of the United States.

I don't mean to offend you; but, that is a very naive belief.

its all good...
free your mind

ya know..man was just dated to be here 195000 yrs ago..thats the latest..the us was not here..nor christ..
i think it would be great if we all blw up or the mountains rose and 300 ft tall tsunamis slammed the lands and the ground churned to sulfer..

those left can start over living simple life again...

i live in the forest and do not miss society or our goverments or any of the religions..it s all fked

George W. Bush has assumed powers no other American president has ever held.

Yeah, and isn't it interesting that in a supposed democracy where "anyone can be president", the guy who gets the job just HAPPENS to be the son of the guy who had it four years ago?! Duh, I guess it just sorta 'happened' that way. Out of 250 million Americans, many of whom are better thinkers, communicators, leaders, etc. it just sorta 'happened' that the President's KID ends up in the Oval Office. Wow. What are the odds?

Cognitive dissonance is a sad thing.