Jesus Christ could not have died for your sins .

Some of you keep touching on this with out naming it: en.wikipedia.org...


The more specific one that keep coming up is en.wikipedia.org... but that's not really surprising as it is the "classic" theory of atonement and generally serves as a launching point for other theological theories.

and if jesus was never married how could he ever understand or experience how could he experience or feel what married people feel?

it`s easy to condemn someone for committing adultery if you have NEVER been married.

how can he judge us and condemn us for a temptation he never faced?

a reply to: ClovenSky

I try to separate religion from belief, because all too often the politics/policies of the one collide headlong into the other...leading to crisis of faith.

Mine lasted, and still recurs from time to time, for almost 20 years--actually closer to thirty--after my mom died from cancer. How, I asked, can a God who loves us inflict such cruelty upon one undeserving of such. I still ask that question, late at night when things are always darkest, from time to time.

My only answer is this, and it's not an answer designed to win friends...

My belief is that there is a Supreme Being, a Godshead, if you prefer, where faith comes in is believing there is a reason for everything that happens, and that all will, one day, become clear. I've found it a tough road to follow, but mostly worthwhile.

a reply to: Nyiah

Blind faith isn't faith, it's dogma. Believe this way or you're doomed to the everlasting torment.

Faith questions. Faith asks why is this happening, faith relies on the belief that there is a reason for everything. Dogma is easy, faith is hard.

a reply to: randyvs

I don't think you're wrong, frankly.

Religion, no matter how "enlightened" is dogmatic...you follow a certain set of rules to achieve enlightenment--or the rewards of heaven, however you choose to describe it.

What you're describing, for yourself, is faith. MHO, of course...your mileage may vary.

One soul can teach another soul but it is up to each soul to restore the harm they have done. It is a matter of having a clean conscience and knowing whatever harm you create you take responsibility for it in the end. The free ride idea that some religions promote only enables the corruption to increase instead of limiting the insanity.

Being in a human body is being limited and disconnected. Even the brain was created flawed from birth. One example is how the amygdala need to be reconfigured to give of a low level bliss state. If a low level spiritual change increase make the human body feel blissful and make the body tactile responses increase and telepathic ability increase then think how the experience of being a blessed ONE can be.

A being who can understand total objective knowledge making no simplifications but using entanglement to measure and experience at any point in creation (no quantum pixels hidden/unknown). That kind of awareness gives insight into logic and understanding that a < 200 IQ awareness have a hard time to grasp.

I'm always impressed by people who speak of God as tho he's some ignorant air head.

a reply to: randyvs

I know right?!

a reply to: seagull

I can totally understand believing in a higher power. I just think that it isn't possible to have true knowledge of what that being is while we are still alive.

I also went through multiple crises of faith until I became free. Whether that freedom will get me past whatever possible hurdles lay in wait after I shed my mortal coil I have no idea. But until the rules of those hurdles becomes clear, I will continue to live my life to the best of my abilities. I will live by karma which I think has much stricter rules than religion.

But it just mystifies me at the hostile reactions from a simple question. Even when I was a practicing catholoic, I don't remember getting that upset at mere theories. But I was probably corrupt from the start.

If you could suspend faith for a second. Slip into an alternate belief. Consider that these questions are not an attempt of ill will or attack. Maybe these questions are an attempt at elevation, at wanting to bring peace and contentment. Say from the agnostic's point of view there is no knowledge possible of what comes after our time in this reality ends. Then the definitive proof of our creator isn't possible. Ultimate free will. Instead of building a life based on a certain set of deity creeds, you have to take full self accountability in determining how to live this life. How to treat others regardless of that person's beliefs. How to find joy and how to fully appreciate this reality.

With those view points, they are not trying to tear down others that follow material that claims to hold answers of afterlife, but instead they are trying to free them. If you live by the tenants that to help your fellow traveler is a priority because we all share this environment, how can you not try and ..... something .....

a reply to: ClovenSky

I can totally understand believing in a higher power. I just think that it isn't possible to have true knowledge of what that being is while we are still alive.

If you can't understand that a higher power would be capable
absolutely and infinitely, of getting a message to us that can be
easily referrenced? In regards to us knowing who he is and the
truth of his word while, "We are still alive"? Then you don't under
stand the first thing about belief in a higher power. GOD

Then the definitive proof of our creator isn't possible.

This is only true objectively speaking not subjectively.

With those view points, they are not trying to tear down others that follow material that claims to hold answers of afterlife, but instead they are trying to free them. If you live by the tenants that to help your fellow traveler is a priority because we all share this environment, how can you not try and ..... something .....

The truth will set you free.

I agree.. Gen 4:7 agree with you also.

a reply to: midnightstar

You reject Jesus blood and try to cause other's to lose there faith in his Grace.
Misery they say loves company.

Oh you are wrong as well just in case I missed that part.

Not everyone is saved the way is narrow and few will pass through the gate but the shepherd will come for his own even if they are stolen.

He is before life, he is of the one that created life and has the power and the authority to both lay down his life and to take it up again as he proved, if you are dead you can not get up but he can get you back up.

His blood took the place of the sacrifice for the atonement of sin's, he is our lamb who takes the place of our sacrifice and fulfills the law on our behalf, he did not die for everyone but for everyone that come's to him Truly but those whom do not, those whom reject him, whom deny his sacrifice, his testimony well they have NO salvation and there place is in the lake of fire with Satan and his follower's.

a reply to: midnightstar

God did not sacrifice his son .His son is with him right now and always will be no matter how many Mortal deaths he has . God nore Jesus have a clue what sacrifice truly is and neither can say they understand our short comings .

First off, I don't believe much of the Biblical stuff. Despite that, it's not logical to say God hasn't 'a clue' about sacrifice. The narrative and myth is clear in saying God is everything and everywhere - omnipotent and omniscient. The extension of this context would include awareness and understanding of temptation as well as resilience. The 'seven sins' would be likewise understood and experienced.

I don't particularly doubt that Jesus lived and it's not unheard of for people to make great sacrifices. Whilst some quibble over the existence of altruism, it exists as a practical concept. In that sense, Jesus as a normal human being could have made his sacrifice for what he believed was the greater good.

a reply to: midnightstar

Now lets take a look at your child god shell we Jesus was born to a women so he is half human ( but existed before he was born and continued to exist after he was Mortally killed . So born KNOWING he would never truly die just go home in effect a second out of his eternal life . Now how could this being ever understand what it is to Fear ?

I am not saying that I know the answers but what if you are mistaken? What if the purpose of Jesus was not as you understand? Was there forgiveness before Jesus? Was not Adam forgiven? Was not Noah Forgiven? Was not Abraham and his house of over 300 men forgiven? Then why the need for Jesus to become flesh just to forgive anyone? Was that the purpose of the Christ to become flesh when it clearly shows that forgiveness was already instituted?

Perhaps there was another purpose that you are not aware of. Have you ever considered that forgiveness is before Justification? All of the Adamic race that died were contained in the terrestrial realm called Sheol. Both justified and not justified were separated in Sheol in separate chambers according to their sins committed in the flesh. So how did they ever get to heaven from there and when did they get to heaven from Sheol? Could it have been that this was the purpose of the Christ Jesus' mission?

Jesus' mission was to introduce His kingdom in heaven. How did He do this? The first act would be to forgive and then justify those that He forgave. The second act would be to lead them out of this terrestrial realm and allow them to live in His kingdom in heaven. So in that respect He did come to forgive the righteous and offer them His kingdom. That is far different than just to forgive your sin and then stick you in the heart of this earth seemingly forever. There had to be more to this than simply forgive.

It was prophesied that the Messiah would one day come to set the captives free and that He would descend first in the heart of this earth for three days and three nights the same as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish. It is believed that this exact prophecy did come true and that those justified captives in Sheol were the very first of the Adamic seed to enter the celestial kingdom of heaven.

Was that the only purpose? No it was not but it was the central theme in this reasoning. What then was the second reasoning? He suffered the death of uncertainty and took the burden of uncertainty upon Himself to show people that they too can enter this kingdom without suffering in Sheol by belief in what He offers. Prior to His birth and death there was no god who ever lived that offered this celestial New Jerusalem of everlasting life.

Think on that portion for awhile and then you might understand that there is far more to this than to simply forgive someone a sin. Did not Jesus ever have a doubt? I believe He certainly did as his soul was dying on the tree of sin. A moment when He cried out to His Father in uncertainty and then perished. Was He always certain of a safe return home? I don't believe so as He always had the need to pray and be assured. As a man He was not God but as He returned home He then became one with His Father.

originally posted by: midnightstar
Jesus Christ could not have died for your sins .

It appears that you do not understand metaphor, and are thus confused.

originally posted by: midnightstar

Of the two Jesus and the devil the Devil alest knows what sin feels like and alest fears the ending of it he would be a much better candidate to die for sins having DONE the sins then a pure god who never know sin to begin with .

Oh Jesus could party all night long, had his libido, would lie too to make a good story, but never vicious, never evil, a good men, tried to keep the 10 Commandments as best as he could, a sympathetic guy, was good with women, never got sex out of them though

signed THE LAMB / APOLLYON

originally posted by: seagull
Faith questions. Faith asks why is this happening, faith relies on the belief that there is a reason for everything. Dogma is easy, faith is hard.

If you have faith you do not question - faith does not ask 'why is this happening?'.
If you have faith in God then you will trust that everything that is happening is fine and dandy because it is done by God.
The trouble with humans is that they have a mind that believes in other than there is. Jesus was said to have been teaching the blind to see and the deaf to hear - so they could see and hear what IS - not what should or could be - or reasons why.

originally posted by: randyvs
The truth will set you free.

The truth is there is no 'you' separate from what is happening! When this is found to be true - then 'you' are free.
Until the happening is realised there will be a belief that 'you' are doing life. Really 'you' are being done.

In truth 'you' cannot sin because there is no 'you' doing anything - all is done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

That makes sense! Where did you come up with that?

a reply to: midnightstar

many mystery's left unsaid about the Son of man.

Salvation isn't some philosophic nonsense. None of the Biblical narrative is.

If you were stuck in a Tijuana jail cell, circa 1974, you'd have to be broken out. Somone would have to retrieve the keys.

Christ retrieved the keys of hell. He paved a connection back to Source.

Can philosophy make current flow backwards through a diode? No. Manipulating waveforms to follow paths in complex circuitry, is not philosophy.

If people only knew... But they won't. They refuse.