Cal State LA offers segregated housing for black students

a reply to: ketsuko

All the special themed housing have their own needs. That's the whole point of the special housing. Some want a place where they can feel comfortable as gays and transgenders. Some want a place where they can sit around and talk about nerdy stuff like math and science. Some want a place were they can sit around and talk about their interest in black culture within Pan African studies.

The point is, none of these housing facilities are discriminative. Anyone who is allies with LGBT students can live in the gender neutral housing. Anyone who is an honors scholar can be in the honors scholars housing. Anyone who is in the Pan African studies program can be in the Halisi scholars housing. No blacks are forced in or out. No whites are forced in or out.

a reply to: kaylaluv

OK, so now you are saying that honors scholars housing is the safe space for nerds? Wow!

So you still fail to identify what it is about the Halisi scholars program specifically that demands it need a special housing program for its majors that honors housing would not address. If those scholars simply need to sit around be "nerdy" as you put, it, wouldn't honors housing be the place for them?

What is special about the Pan-African studies program that demands it need a special housing program for its majors while no other major does for its students?

a reply to: ketsuko

I never said anything about safe space. I said a place where the nerds can talk nerd stuff 24/7 if they want. Not because they feel unsafe anywhere else - because they all have something in common which makes it more fun for them to be together. You could look at the Halisi scholars the same way. They want to talk about the black experience with others who are also interested in talking about the black experience.

You haven't showed me where any other majors program has asked for special housing and been denied. Can you do that for this university?

a reply to: kaylaluv

All right, so if your argument is that it is of particular benefit for nerds to sit around being nerds together and for Halisi scholars to sit around being "black" together (in quotes because some of them may not be black in truth), then wouldn't it likewise be of benefit for music majors to sit around being musical together and for math majors to sit around doing equations together, etc.?

In other words, the school ought to be promoting the best interests of its students. So if it's good to segregate some groups by scholarly focus, they ought to all be segregated by scholarly focus, requested or not, because it is in their academic best interest.

If the school doesn't take this action, then what can we conclude from the segregation of Halisi scholar housing?

Apparently, nothing new. Other schools are playing the divisiveness game after years of integration. www.latimes.com... All the special people make demands and hope for some idiot to bite and there are many idiots in the administrative staff of our colleges and universities.

What is disturbing is that these schools are still pumping out people with degrees in "Black Studies," or some such, that are limited in application and provide few opportunities. What the community needs are more professionals with science, math, technology, and engineering degrees.

a reply to: ketsuko

Who said it was in their academic best interest? It's a personal interest. What you do and who you do it with when you are not in class is personal, so it's a personal interest. The university was catering to a personal interest, just like to the personal interest of the honors scholars and the personal interest of the LGBT students/allies. The key is, not to make it a specifically "blacks only" housing, which the university didn't do.

originally posted by: LifeMode
I spend 20 years in the military and graduated from a university in the deep south. Not once did I ever witness racism. What I did notice is that black people like to hang out together, especially in the military. I would often go sit with them because It bothered me to be honest. I also was stationed in SCAL and again no racism. Just black people wanting to hang out together. I think this has less to to with racism and them just wanting their own special club based off skin color. If there are incidents deal with the incidents. Going this route you just gave a big victory to those wanting to spew hatred. They got what they wanted, all the black people confined to one area.

It's not a black specific thing, people like hanging out in groups that they perceive to be like them and race is one that's visible. Asians and Mexicans like to hang out with Asians and Mexicans too. It's an easy way to form a common bond and get to know someone.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: SaturnFX


Its a public school. houses should not discriminate. I dont understand how this is even remotely legal at a public university.

But it doesn't discriminate. It is only allowing people of similar goals, interests and ideology (Pan-African Studies students) to commune together if they want to. I see nothing that says only black people are allowed to live in the black living and learning housing, nor do I see where it says that all black students living on campus have to live there. No one is forced in or forced out. So I can't see how it's illegal. The black student union proclaims that the university catered to their desire to have a black student housing, but the university positions it as housing for Halisi Scholars (Pan-African studies students).

Lets just try a hypothetical comparison that would involve white students. Let's say there is such a thing as Irish Culture Studies. Probably not too many black students in those classes, but that doesn't mean blacks are banned - just means they aren't interested. Now let's say the Irish Culture Studies students petition for housing just for them. Obviously there will probably be only whites signing up for living in this house. Are blacks banned? No. Is it segregation? In a way, but not in the way Jim Crow laws in the South did it. Is it discriminating against blacks? I just don't see how it is. It's not positioned as "whites only". Any black student who wanted to major in Irish Culture Studies is free to do so, and is therefore free to get into the house.

Its quite amazing how filled with bullpoop this post is.

Huffpo take on it
Even HuffPo sounds disingenious, and the article doesn't say anything like what you are saying, they are defending how black people need their safe space..its not many beds, etc.
a requirement for being considered for these spaces is 100% skintone.

I would suggest you scroll down a bit on that page and read the comments. it is a war, with the most ignorant demanding black people need their space because they dont want to basically be exposed to white peoples questions about hair, or smell white people food, etc...and that was actually the most coherent comment defending the decision. most are just shaking their head...in HuffPo...

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: ketsuko

Who said it was in their academic best interest? It's a personal interest. What you do and who you do it with when you are not in class is personal, so it's a personal interest. The university was catering to a personal interest, just like to the personal interest of the honors scholars and the personal interest of the LGBT students/allies. The key is, not to make it a specifically "blacks only" housing, which the university didn't do.

the KKK is a personal interest
Why hasn't the university created a "white living" space to keep away from the microaggressions of PoC? All they would need is about 97% of the beds to be free of "the blacks"..you know..for progress.
maybe their own drinking fountain...and places on the bus.

originally posted by: ketsukoSo if it's good to segregate some groups by scholarly focus, they ought to all be segregated by scholarly focus, requested or not, because it is in their academic best interest.

My school actually does this. All of the students who live on campus live in various dorm sections that are assigned by major. All the engineers are in the same section, the scientists in the same section, the mathematicians, political science, etc.

I can't speak for every program, but I know it has been beneficial in mine because students are always available to help each other with assignments, and it forms connections with people you may be working with in the future. It also helps with living arrangements because everyone is on a similar schedule, so you get concepts like everyone going to bed at the same time (no instances of one roommate staying up all night being noisy, while the other sleeps for a morning class), forming homework routines, and so on.

My only complaint about it, looking at it from someone who doesn't live on campus is it leads to various cliques forming, and commuter students tend to be left out and work on stuff individually, which puts them at a disadvantage.

a reply to: kaylaluv
And since when is it the university's business to accommodate the personal interests of some of its students?

Again, if this is the case, then you can throw out the scholars housing. They have an academic need to have their housing. It is in their academic best interests.

So now, we are segregating some students off by personal needs and not academic needs and yet we are justifying this one by an academic program? In what way does the Halisi scholar's program create a real and verifiable social need that must be accommodated by a special housing situation in order for the students in the Pan-African studies major to be successful that other majors at that university do not create for their students?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: ketsuko

I never said anything about safe space. I said a place where the nerds can talk nerd stuff 24/7 if they want. Not because they feel unsafe anywhere else - because they all have something in common which makes it more fun for them to be together. You could look at the Halisi scholars the same way. They want to talk about the black experience with others who are also interested in talking about the black experience.

You haven't showed me where any other majors program has asked for special housing and been denied. Can you do that for this university?

On their website, I seen 2 communities

the gender neutral..so people who identify as a female, male, Xim, Fer, attack helicopter, etc can all live together without worry and with one another..aka, the gender fluid tumblr crowd.

and now the blacks.

I disagree with both..sort of...but I would be more inclined to allow consessions on the first given that is mostly just a chosen lifestyle, not some biological reality. a person will choose to feel like a multigendered unicorn..but a person cant feel they are black/white/brown...they simply are.

If there was things like science dorms, art dorm, etc..thats fine..all based on choice.

race is not a choice.

Gender is not a choice either...at least how science determines gender.

a reply to: dragonridr

Well # eh, i really had you pegged wrong....my apologies.....

a reply to: SaturnFX

You are a regressive. You are making sure skintone is the most important factor, and black people are a protected class.

What utter rubbish.....

Here the problem you are focusing on skin color as an issue where as i do not......i am simply pointing out that there is a big issue with racism whether you choose to see it or not.....this is a very touchy subject and i can tell you now by using labels you are part of the problem and the sad part is you cannot even see it.......

Anyhow you have had you say and good luck to you....i wholeheartedly disagree and i think you are confused.....

a reply to: ketsuko

Really, the real danger here is that eventually at some point or other when we are busy separating ourselves out, one group blames another when things still aren't perfect and the slaughter ensues.

This is what i am afraid of, these groups have been forming for some time now and it appears some are sharpening weapons.......

For some reason we all see each other on the other side of the fence and for that reason fight among ourselves....

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I keep seeing statements like yours... and its funny how as a white guy that never dated a white girl till I was in my 30's the majority of the racism I saw growing up in the deep south came from the families of the girls I was dating... just because she was dating a white guy.

Racism is not restricted to just white people..

Absolutely it is not.....the reality however as a white person you are not exposed to how deep the racism has actually been ingrained....AS whites we are exposed to racism on a much lower level and can go through life without even experiencing it......

Meh, move to a non white majority country and you will experience racism as a white person. Minorities always have things a bit tougher in a majority country.
Difference is, white culture has always been linked to wealthy culture (West is wealthy, west is overall white), so when you go to say, asia or africa, your white skin will be seen as a payday target.

You are just playing the victim card.....and you are no better than those you denigrate

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneedi am simply pointing out that there is a big issue with racism whether you choose to see it or not.....

So what
Here is the thing about racism. it requires food.
If you are constantly screaming about racism, racism grows

Back before Obama, things were pretty mellow. racism was drifting away as a thing in the west. some issues still, but it was becoming basically forgotten. Obama came into office (no fault of his own the effects, not blaming him, blaming the groups) and suddenly you had these fringe militant organizations feeling threatened..I mean, if a black dude gets in the white house, how can they scream that black people are surpressed..so like many other dying entities, it makes a ton of noise and breaks stuff
And thats where we are now. the racist organizations, the blm types, the social justice warrior extremeists are on the warpath because they know their cause, their oppression olympics is pretty much over.

Less and less people daily identify as a victim due to skintone or gender. You are gonna have to work harder if you want to keep some angry, you're doing a lousy job lately.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: ketsuko

Who said it was in their academic best interest? It's a personal interest. What you do and who you do it with when you are not in class is personal, so it's a personal interest. The university was catering to a personal interest, just like to the personal interest of the honors scholars and the personal interest of the LGBT students/allies. The key is, not to make it a specifically "blacks only" housing, which the university didn't do.

If a white person (or Asian person or non-black person in general) had a personal interest in living in that special black-interest dorm, would they be welcome to do so by the other residents of that dorm?

Going by the tone of the Black Student Union's demand letter, it seems to me that the Black Student Union would NOT want white or other non-black people living there -- even white people who may express a personal interest in living among and interacting with the culture of the people in that black-interest dorm.

I see that the article goes on to say that the housing is technically open to anyone, but how does the Black Student Union feel about that?

a reply to: pteridine

You know what's real disturbing? Not Black Studies majors, which are a tiny fraction of even African American students, honestly, but -- Criminal Justice degrees.

The Campus in Downtown Denver has more CJ majors than just about any other, but there are literally ZERO jobs for CJ's with a BS. Ask them, and they will tell you that they want to be a police detective, or a forensics expert. No one wants to be a beat cop.

Guess what? The DPD doesn't hire CJ majors to be Detectives. You have to go through the academy, just like everyone else, and work your way up from beat cop.

And forensics analysis is done by qualified applicants with a degree in science -- typically Biology. Whoops.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: pteridine

You know what's real disturbing? Not Black Studies majors, which are a tiny fraction of even African American students, honestly, but -- Criminal Justice degrees.

The Campus in Downtown Denver has more CJ majors than just about any other, but there are literally ZERO jobs for CJ's with a BS. Ask them, and they will tell you that they want to be a police detective, or a forensics expert. No one wants to be a beat cop.

Guess what? The DPD doesn't hire CJ majors to be Detectives. You have to go through the academy, just like everyone else, and work your way up from beat cop.

And forensics analysis is done by qualified applicants with a degree in science -- typically Biology. Whoops.

Majors in CJ are apparently fairly common. Many young people pick a major, believing the school, without investigating the supply-demand situation. Then, when not employable, they can't pay off the loans they took to get the non-existent job. What I also note is that many graduates, regardless of major, expect to start at or near the top. They are shocked when they have to start as a worker bee instead of a VP spot.
Maybe the Denver campus should tell the CJ majors what that degree will get them, such as a better chance at getting in to the Academy, so they can be a beat cop and work their way up. When faced with the prospect of actually working at a dangerous job, they may just shift over to Marketing and Communications.