If not for the serpent we would all be living happy materialistic lives with God

Genesis says:

- God create man in his image and likeness (male and female he created them).

- God allowed humans to run around naked and free in the garden (nature), no rent or taxes or money.

- God told them that they can eat as much as they like (except the forbidden fruit of knowledge of good and evil which brings death into the world).

- God told them that sex is ok, nothing to be seen as bad or shameful ("be fruitful and multiply").


Many religious people seem to be against the God of Eden. They believe sex and nudity should be hidden and embarassing and that focusing on living free with nature eating fruits and living for free is "wrong", "animal like", "being a bum", etc.

But it was after they talked to the serpent and ate the fruit that they became ashamed of their bodies and covered up, and in human societies no one could live for free anymore (taxes, rent, etc.)

Religious people still judge sex and nudity and not wanting to work for money as "bad", even today.

If the serpent caused people to eat this fruit of good and evil, made them judgmental and judge even their own naked body as shameful, then are the religious under the spell of the serpent still?

Genesis seems to tell a different story of what God really wanted for the human race (which many religious people would disagree with).

a reply to: arpgme

Adam and Eve were clothed in light before the fall, they had no idea they were naked before that.

Lol, nowadays we know we are naked. Besides that, I don't want to see most people naked, that would be profoundly disturbing.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

So they were expected to be fruitful and multiply while wearing clothes [of light]?

You make a great point OP

However, we people are stubborn and prideful, so the serpent is a necessary part of the game: who knows how sweet waters are who hasn't been thirsty?

The serpent is god's guard dog: wagging its tail at familiar faces and scaring or scarring the timid stranger.

We'd be living perfect lives, and with no basis for comparison, wouldn't appreciate that perfect life as much as we now can.

a reply to: arpgme

Two questions for you:
1. Why did God create the forbidden fruit tree?
2. Why did God create the serpent?

ETA: A part of me believes that God, or more likely an impostor coming across as the divine source of creation, wanted us to eat from the "forbidden" tree of knowledge.

originally posted by: wisvol
You make a great point OP

However, we people are stubborn and prideful, so the serpent is a necessary part of the game: who knows how sweet waters are who hasn't been thirsty?

The serpent is god's guard dog: wagging its tail at familiar faces and scaring or scarring the timid stranger.

We'd be living perfect lives, and with no basis for comparison, wouldn't appreciate that perfect life as much as we now can.

Hmm, surely an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being could create us with the innate ability to understand pain, suffering and negativity without making us actually undergo these things?

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Experiencing them makes us stronger, mentally, emotionally. Gold is purified by fire. Diamonds are made by a crushing force. Trials and pain protect and mold us.

I think it's a necessary illustration on the flawed nature of humans. Even within a perfect situation our tendency is to sin.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Hmm, surely an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being could create us with the innate ability to understand pain, suffering and negativity without making us actually undergo these things?

Yes, absolutely

We also can see that since our understanding these concepts stems from experiencing them, this isn't the way the being you describe chose to play that game, and I'm sure glad it isn't, because what's going on now is a lot more fun.

Free will is the only way to make sense out of our experiences, otherwise it's just all "mektub" and in that case let's just watch television and obey just enough to get pizza.

We have a choice, and the perfect life the OP describes wouldn't be appreciated as perfect without a taste of imperfection, like finally reaching that mountain cabin in a snowstorm and finding a cozy lit fireplace you'd only heard about.
So much better than living in a temperature controlled safe bubble.

Cool thoughts.

I'm not a believer, but I've often thought that if I've been wrong about christianity, then the "god" described in most of their book is clearly the devil in disguise.

Also, if I've been wrong about christianity, then Michael Jackson was clearly the second coming of christ, and we all missed it.

I've settled on Gnostic theories myself. Specifically the "Craftsman" gods that are "lesser gods" that the "real God" has allowed. For me, it helps settle my own issues as an Evangelical Christian and the huge inconsistencies and problems with God being angry, surprised, etc. The true "God" in my mind will be perfect and free from all human flaws, the one in the bible ain't that guy and I don't accept the premise that he is and it's all an elaborate necessity for "salvation" any longer.

I also feel that Buddhists "Wheel of suffering" and reincarnation play a role in that some have to come back and some don't with the goal being to escape this realm and bypass re-entering "The wheel".

Perhaps Jesus and a few others reached a level of understanding and enlightenment that we all hope to achieve some day.

I'm not trying to bash anyone's beliefs, this is just my humble view at the moment. I'm not "lost" or "fooled" anymore than others are in their surety. No matter what we believe, we can't change the truth.

PS: Can't wait to see all you self righteous pricks in heaven!

a reply to: Paschar0

I take offense to being called a prick before noon.

a reply to: In4ormant

Tick tock ;-)

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: NOTurTypical

So they were expected to be fruitful and multiply while wearing clothes [of light]?

It seems translation of data arpgme is "OUR" IMAGE signifying male/female GODS...
1 has also pondered why would AN perceivable evil being alert beings unaware of it's deceptive ways of ... Deception? Unless it wanted to warn you of something...
Also were the GODS plural, wearing clothing of some Astronomical kind? And further why?
Last ultimately if they are IS-BE and humans are IS-BE, what could does this all really mean?

GENESIS 1:26
King James Bible
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Paschar0

I take offense to being called a prick before noon.

Why? Rejoice. That's a blessing.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: NOTurTypical

So they were expected to be fruitful and multiply while wearing clothes [of light]?

Yes. God never tells a man to do something that He won't empower and give him the grace to accomplish.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: NOTurTypical

So they were expected to be fruitful and multiply while wearing clothes [of light]?

It seems translation of data arpgme is "OUR" IMAGE signifying male/female GODS...
1 has also pondered why would AN perceivable evil being alert beings unaware of it's deceptive ways of ... Deception? Unless it wanted to warn you if something...
Also were the GODS plural, wearing clothing of some Astronomical kind? And further why?
Last ultimately if they are IS-BE and humans are IS-BE, what could does this all really mean?

That your trying too hard?

a reply to: In4ormant
No, just compilation data update have to will- own research what is...

originally posted by: Ophiuchus 13
a reply to: In4ormant
No, just compilation data update have to will- own research what is...

I find your writing composition hard to follow. I'm trying to decipher it, just not getting very far.