My thoughts on the right wing Christian community's reaction to the Orlando massacre

To paraphrase the author's words, here is what American Christianity and American "Christians" look like to those who are outside this group...

As a former Evangelical, I have to side with Croft... Evangelicals may use the name of Jesus for cover, but even Jesus is too small a fig leaf to hide the fact outsiders looking at Evangelical Christianity see more prick than heart.

Here is what the Evangelical brand looks like from the outside:

Evangelical means obsessed with sex. Evangelicals are so desperate to fend off their own complicated sexual desires and self-loathing that they would rather watch queer teens commit suicide than deal with their homophobia. They abhor youth sexuality and female sexual pleasure to the point that they have driven an epidemic of teen pregnancy, unintended pregnancy and abortion—all because accurate information and contraceptive access might let the wrong kind of people (young unmarried and female people) have sex for the wrong reasons (pleasure and intimacy) without suffering for it.

Evangelical means arrogant.Wheaton College put Evangelical arrogance on national display when administrators decided to suspend and then fire a professor who dared to suggest that Muslims, Jews and Christians all worship the same God.

Evangelical means fearful and bigoted.While more secular Europeans and Canadians offer aid to Syrian refugees, Evangelical Christians have instead sought to exclude Muslims. They have used their vast empire of telecommunications channels to inspire not charity but fear of imminent Sharia in the U.S. and of refugees more broadly. They have urged that Latin American refugees be sent home so that we can build a wall across the southern border before they come back.

Evangelical means gullible and greedy.From televangelists and Prosperity Gospel to adulation of Ronald Reagan and Ayn Rand, Evangelicalism faces the world as a religion of exploiters and exploited—both of which are hoping to make a quick buck.

Evangelical means ignorant.The only way to protect creationism is to keep people from understanding how science works and what scientists have discovered. As evidence accumulates related to evolutionary biology, insulating children requires a constant battle to keep accurate information out of textbooks. Insulating adults requires cultivating a deep suspicion of science and scholarship, an anti-intellectualism that diffuses out from this center and defines Evangelical culture at large.

Evangelical means predatory.Evangelical missionaries prey on the young and ignorant. They have fought all the way to the Supreme Court to ensure they can proselytize children in public grade schools. Having failed to block marriage equality in the States, they export Bible based gay-hate to Central Africa, where gays are more vulnerable. Since Americans lost interest in tent revivals, evangelists now cast out demons, heal the sick and raise the dead among uneducated low-information people in developing countries.

Evangelical means mean.Opposing anti-poverty programs, shaming and stigmatizing queers, making it harder for poor women to prevent pregnancy, blaming rape victims, diverting aid dollars into church coffers, threatening little kids with eternal torture, supporting war, denying the rights of other species, . . . need I go on?

By Valerie Tarico

a reply to: desert

Nonsense.

What a rabid, thoroughly distorted-reality of a rant.

Doesn't sound like any evangelicals I know.

Sheesh.

I'm sorry some so-called evangelical peed in your cereal.

Does the "Not All" meme apply here as well?

a reply to: desert

Brilliantly written. Thanks for posting that.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Does "Brilliantly written"

in this case

equal

'What a great parroting of my biases right down the line.' ???

I'd like to think otherwise . . . it's just a bit of a challenge, somehow, on this topic.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Bo, I think the Pentecostal mindset and judgmental doomsday stuff that you all belabor and which preoccupies your minds is truly detrimental to the furthering of Human Progress.

I just don't understand how you can be educated and credentialed in mental health/psychology and still believe the Pentecostal story.

I don't get it. It troubles me.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
Doesn't sound like any evangelicals I know.

Same source

Internally, Evangelical communities can be wonderfully kind, generous and mutually supportive. But today, few people other than Evangelical Christians themselves associate the term “Evangelical” with words like generous and kind. In fact, a secular person is likely to see a kind, generous Evangelical neighbor as a decent person in spite of their Christian beliefs, not because of them.

Internally. It is when church beliefs enter the world of the "un-saved", the sinners, the infidels, that the gloves come off and hate is cast upon all those un-believers.

An interview with Frank Schaeffer, author of Patience with God Frank Schaeffer is the son of the late Francis Schaeffer, both leaders of the early (1970-80s) evangelical fundamentalist movement to unite church and state. Frank is no longer an evangelical fundamentalist.

The Religious Right they (and my late father Francis Schaeffer) spawned has deformed not just faith but the Republican Party, now the exclusive preserve of loopy nuts and/or far right theocratic abmition to "bring America back to God.".....
it's hate of one's own country. They hate America because most Americans are rejecting them. We're mostly tolerant of gays, women, diversity and immigrants--all things the right hate. And so they are turning their hatred on America. Add the people waiting for Jesus to come back and judge all of us into the mix and you understand that what these folks want isn't prosperity and peace but Armageddon.

He opened te interview with

The Religious Right has seduced millions of Americans with titillating hatred and lies: The earth was created in six days and is not warming; Obama is a secret Muslim (perhaps even the Antichrist!) and wants women to have more abortions; gays are trying to take over America; the United Nations (and/or Obama and/or the president of the European Union) is the Antichrist; an unregulated market economy is Christian; guns keep people safe; taxing the rich is "communism"; capital punishment is good; immigrants are the enemy, national health care is "communist." Some or all these paranoid fantasies are accepted as truth by a whole substratum of "Christians" determined to judge their country as "fallen away from God." They believe America is "doomed" because they don't agree with their fellow citizens' politics or because, as their signs routinely proclaim, "God Hates Fags!" They call people like me "abortionists" because I and others say that maybe the best way to reduce abortion is to keep it legal but to also help women escape poverty, educate young people, and provide contraception rather than trying to reverse Roe v. Wade (realistically an impossibility, on which profilers have wasted almost forty years of effort and untold tens of millions of dollars).

I've known many Christian fundamentalist, some family members. Yes, nice people, not hateful when you meet them, but their beliefs are of the above and, yes, they are very angry, and some can be downright hateful, over all the "sinners".

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: markosity1973

Your reply to my post is utterly mystifying.

Did you not understand a word I wrote?

Where was I even in the same universe as "cold hearted?"

Where did I say anyone was not a real victim?

I was and am the opposite of your assertions about me. Sheesh!

I don't think I've read a more utterly off the wall, totally inaccurate reply to one of my post in my 11 years on ATS.

Sheesh.

Sincerest apologies Bo Xian,

You are 100% correct. I misread your post and took it completely the wrong way and responded in a completely inappropriate manner.

This topic is very emotive for me, I know a couple of the victims and I was all fired up by the attitude I was getting from other members.

I should not have called you a heartless prick and said I do not respect you. I apologise once again.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I understand. But that's a topic for a different thread. I'll just say . . . God has thusly proven Himself repeatedly for most of my life. It would be sheer lunacy to believe otherwise. Besides . . . my Dissertation looked at . . . a lot of such stuff in the larger ball park.

THANKS TONS for your kind, forthright and high integrity apology.

You are, of course, forgiven, as we all need to be daily.

I didn't have ill-will toward you, even then--I was just utterly mystified. LOL.

And, I'd much rather you be overly emotional than so dead inside that you couldn't feel anything. CONGRATS.

Thanks for this post and for your PM. Very classy.

Thanks BIG.

originally posted by: markosity1973
Sincerest apologies Bo Xian,

You are 100% correct. I misread your post and took it completely the wrong way and responded in a completely inappropriate manner.

This topic is very emotive for me, I know a couple of the victims and I was all fired up by the attitude I was getting from other members.

I should not have called you a heartless prick and said I do not respect you. I apologise once again.

a reply to: BO XIAN

As I said in the OP, I was raised Catholic. A big part of our lifestyle is admitting when we've done wrong and trying to put it right. It was a rightful act of attrition.

I might be gay, but I am definitely not amoral

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: markosity1973

Its not fair to tar everyone with the same brush, many christians are as equally torn and saddened by these events, have nothing to offer but prayer for what it is worth to you.
Dont condemn us all, evil takes all shapes, wolves hide among the sheep.

Not religious but completely agree with this sentiment.

I have to say though, there have been a fair few Pastors in the US coming out with unhinged statements like "50 less pedophiles in the world". Do these nut jobs really think that paedophilia is the same as homosexuality? In all honesty, statements like that make them look as bad as the crazy Imams we in the West often rant about.

Its just sad. Nutters, regardless of affiliation, do not need validating - on the contrary they need confronting and questionning.

a reply to: markosity1973

This sort of attitude that you felt the need to apologise for scares me

You seem to have an utter hate and contempt for all christians, I do hope that you can see that not all christians, yes there are some and they disappoint us all as a community and yes they maybe in the majority and yes they do not show Christs love
Not all christians are as condemning as judge mental as ignorant as they are

We believe Jesus died for sinners, for me.
Find a balance, be angry, be kind as we are all broken, Christians especialy

Jesus taught that love and forgiveness is the greatest way to breakdown barriers, that's something I work on every day of my life, we all should

No offence

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: markosity1973

Its not fair to tar everyone with the same brush, many christians are as equally torn and saddened by these events, have nothing to offer but prayer for what it is worth to you.
Dont condemn us all, evil takes all shapes, wolves hide among the sheep.

Not religious but completely agree with this sentiment.

I have to say though, there have been a fair few Pastors in the US coming out with unhinged statements like "50 less pedophiles in the world". Do these nut jobs really think that paedophilia is the same as homosexuality? In all honesty, statements like that make them look as bad as the crazy Imams we in the West often rant about.

Its just sad. Nutters, regardless of affiliation, do not need validating - on the contrary they need confronting and questionning.

Just ask them where is christs love in their attitude, what is the gospels meaning to them
Yep confront them I agree, but always be kind

a reply to: Raggedyman

Totally agree, by confronting i mean questionning them rather than getting in their faces with aggression. Violence is the last resort for those that can't handle discussion, it demenas any argument rather than enhancing it.

Bottom line, why did religion form? It was to create social cohesion and harmony so groups of people could band together to increase their quality of life. You don't get that by spreading hate so any "religious" person that spreads hate isn't really religious, regardless of their particular denomination.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: Raggedyman

Totally agree, by confronting i mean questionning them rather than getting in their faces with aggression. Violence is the last resort for those that can't handle discussion, it demenas any argument rather than enhancing it.

Bottom line, why did religion form? It was to create social cohesion and harmony so groups of people could band together to increase their quality of life. You don't get that by spreading hate so any "religious" person that spreads hate isn't really religious, regardless of their particular denomination.

Why did religion form ,speaking as a christian, effectively to restore relationship between God and man and relationship between mankind, restore relationship, not destroy it
True Christianity is about bringing people together, not hate filled rants
What can you do

a reply to: Raggedyman

"Belief" is not "religion". "Religion" is about the worship of unseen deities. Atheists don't believe in or worship unseen deities.

I have lots of beliefs, but I don't believe in nor worship any deities or gods.

a reply to: windword

What?
How is that relevant, you in the right thread
Topic is right wing crazies, what are you on about Windy, feeling left out, just picking a fight, want to flex muscle, really?

a reply to: Raggedyman

you in the right thread

Perhaps not. Perhaps I meant to reply here, www.abovetopsecret.com..., while I was disagreeing with you, also, in this here thread.

a reply to: windword

It happens