Students protest transgender invasion of privacy

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
Well at least we agree then on that, transgenders are not handicapped.

I already explained to you the process for The Disability Act becoming law. It was a majority decision in congress.

I know all about the Disability Act. It is a Civil Rights Law that prohibits discrimination.

And I personally lived through life before and after. I was only 5 when my mom contracted polio. For 30+ years my mom had no protection against discrimination. We were kicked out of places because of the ICK factor.

I know from personal experience that people had to be FORCED to not discriminate against the handicap. And there were lawsuits filed to not have to accommodate the handicap.

Joe Biden says: Transgender discrimination is Civil Rights issue of our time.

Most legal cases won have been in favor for the non-discrimination of the Civil Rights of the transgender.

It is a Civil Rights non-discrimination case and it will be Forced by law.

Will leave the forced/non forced, minority/majority discussion there. We are not going to agree, and nor do I want to confuse my position with denial of any prejudice that occured.

In terms of Joe Biden - if he really thinks transgender discrimitaion is a top issue issue of our time (civil rights or not) then i feel sorry for him. He obviously has no grip on what is going on in the world around him.

There is currently a child dying every 10 seconds in this world from hunger. We should address this human right to survive (never mid civil right) as a matter of urgency and maybe hold off on transgender bathrooms until the big problems are solved.

I don't care if you agree or not.

I lived it. I know.

"The hungry child somewhere in the world desperation argument because you have no real argument". Sure you don't want to throw in Nazis and Hitler too?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
Well at least we agree then on that, transgenders are not handicapped.

I already explained to you the process for The Disability Act becoming law. It was a majority decision in congress.

I know all about the Disability Act. It is a Civil Rights Law that prohibits discrimination.

And I personally lived through life before and after. I was only 5 when my mom contracted polio. For 30+ years my mom had no protection against discrimination. We were kicked out of places because of the ICK factor.

I know from personal experience that people had to be FORCED to not discriminate against the handicap. And there were lawsuits filed to not have to accommodate the handicap.

Joe Biden says: Transgender discrimination is Civil Rights issue of our time.

Most legal cases won have been in favor for the non-discrimination of the Civil Rights of the transgender.

It is a Civil Rights non-discrimination case and it will be Forced by law.

Will leave the forced/non forced, minority/majority discussion there. We are not going to agree, and nor do I want to confuse my position with denial of any prejudice that occured.

In terms of Joe Biden - if he really thinks transgender discrimitaion is a top issue issue of our time (civil rights or not) then i feel sorry for him. He obviously has no grip on what is going on in the world around him.

There is currently a child dying every 10 seconds in this world from hunger. We should address this human right to survive (never mid civil right) as a matter of urgency and maybe hold off on transgender bathrooms until the big problems are solved.

I don't care if you agree or not.

I lived it. I know.

"The hungry child somewhere in the world desperation argument because you have no real argument". Sure you don't want to throw in Nazis and Hitler too?

Interesting that you would call a huge issue like children dying in their millions a desperation argument. If only you put as much focus on such things as opposed to a transgender bathroom...

As for living it and knowing - you must have been dreaming of a different world if you think congress worked differently than I have already advised you of.

I will leave you to crack on as you obviously have zero grasp on what is important in this world.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth
Well at least we agree then on that, transgenders are not handicapped.

I already explained to you the process for The Disability Act becoming law. It was a majority decision in congress.

I know all about the Disability Act. It is a Civil Rights Law that prohibits discrimination.

And I personally lived through life before and after. I was only 5 when my mom contracted polio. For 30+ years my mom had no protection against discrimination. We were kicked out of places because of the ICK factor.

I know from personal experience that people had to be FORCED to not discriminate against the handicap. And there were lawsuits filed to not have to accommodate the handicap.

Joe Biden says: Transgender discrimination is Civil Rights issue of our time.

Most legal cases won have been in favor for the non-discrimination of the Civil Rights of the transgender.

It is a Civil Rights non-discrimination case and it will be Forced by law.

Will leave the forced/non forced, minority/majority discussion there. We are not going to agree, and nor do I want to confuse my position with denial of any prejudice that occured.

In terms of Joe Biden - if he really thinks transgender discrimitaion is a top issue issue of our time (civil rights or not) then i feel sorry for him. He obviously has no grip on what is going on in the world around him.

There is currently a child dying every 10 seconds in this world from hunger. We should address this human right to survive (never mid civil right) as a matter of urgency and maybe hold off on transgender bathrooms until the big problems are solved.

I don't care if you agree or not.

I lived it. I know.

"The hungry child somewhere in the world desperation argument because you have no real argument". Sure you don't want to throw in Nazis and Hitler too?

Interesting that you would call a huge issue like children dying in their millions a desperation argument. If only you put as much focus on such things as opposed to a transgender bathroom...

I would say the same thing about the conservatives who are making it an issue. They are more obsessed with a transwoman's penis than anybody else.

originally posted by: UKTruth

You seem to be one of those professionally offended people. I say this because you don't seem to care about context at all. You read a post and jump into some rant to try and prove moral superiority, spending hrs working out how to articulate your moral outrage.

I'm not offended, just poking the bear. This is not my issue or my problem, I'm just an advocate for transgender children and somehow this discussion has progressed (or regressed, if you will) to which public bathroom to use as if that is the single and most important problem transgender people face.

Honestly, just to clear things up, the "hours spent" weren't trying to figure out how to articulate my "moral outrage" but rather how to call you a completely uninformed idiot on trans perspectives without breaking the T&C's. You know, address the post and not the poster thing? I was trying to follow the rules and be somewhat polite but since you called my motivations into question, I thought it best to clear things up directly so there's no confusion on your part.

Mens toilets are pretty nasty places actually with pee all over the floor, especially in pubs and bars. I'd actually like to use the womens toilets too as I am sure they would be cleaner.

They might be cleaner but I can guarantee the lines will be longer.

So, I guess you would agree it would be ok for me too. After all, why should I be discriminated against because I am a man. For that night I might decide to choose my gender identity as a woman, so it would be ok, right? Or would I have had to choose my gender identity before I went out that night , or earlier? Who is going to decide that my gender identity choice is legitimate that night? How will they decide?

You're being a little preposterous here but I'll play along. There is a difference between gender identity and gender expression for one thing. Secondly, if you are presenting as woman and want to use the ladies room, go ahead. Lewd behavior, peeping, exposing yourself or doing bad things are already against the law. Need to go into a stall, do your business, wash your hands, powder your nose and leave. No harm, no foul.

originally posted by: UKTruth

Interesting that you would call a huge issue like children dying in their millions a desperation argument.

It is not the subject of this thread. There is no comparison between the two. It only shows your desperation.

My father abandoned us, and I grew up in poverty. We ate and had clothes and shoes because the grade school principle "adopted" us. She arranged donated care packages and bought us shoes out of her own pocket.

That has nothing to do with discrimination against a minority group. Nor the Civil Rights laws forcing Equal Treatment.

a reply to: Freija

Fair enough - I take back my comment about profesionally offended.

You are in fact right - there are indeed more important things to discuss, so will bow out there.

BTW, I don't think I could handle the lines to be honest, so I will make do with the floor in the gents.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: UKTruth
I do hope though that the majority get behind making it illegal for m2f transgenders to use womens bathrooms.

So you have no problem with trans* men using the boy's room?

Why's that?

Perhaps read the thread?

Perhaps answer the question?

I wasn't aware the thread was about your personal peccadilloes ... in fact, I know it wasn't.

So, some advice for you. When you are in a public restroom, stop worrying about who else is in there and what they are doing, and tend to your own business.

In fact, that's good life-advice, now that I think of it. Someone else's anatomy is none of your business.

a reply to: nullafides

Good for those girls, speaking out on an issue that we know affects a lot more of them! My girls won't even change n front of each other, or me, they are so inherently modest. Changing with a guy in the room would be unthinkable, no matter what he thinks he is or should be.

Gym in school really is a waste of time. No one stays fit as a result, and most can't stand it.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

This should never have been about the transperson in the first place, it should have been about how stupid it is to force kids to change with each other.

It seems to me that, to your girls, changing in front of anyone is unthinkable. I'd also like to think that you've raised them to not judge people solely by their genitals.

originally posted by: 123143
a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

You may have a third separate locker room.

Only if they pay for it themselves. The taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for such nonsense.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

What the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for is the OBSCENE military spending. What the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for is the subsidizing of large oil companies.

Paying for locker rooms? Well, ignoring that it's a silly idea to begin with, you do realise that transpeople also pay taxes, right?

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yes. Biology. You are talking about someone's SEX. Gender is a psychological thing, and is on a continuum.

But anyway, I thought it was the penis that made someone male, not the Y chromosome? /s

Nope, sorry not true. This new "gender" label is simply nonsense used to disguise something that isn't biologically normal. XY = male, and that means the boys' locker room. XX = female, and that means the girls' locker room. Period. I don't care what hormones someone takes, or what parts they have added or removed. XY is a HE, not a SHE, and XX is a SHE, not a HE. The psychological aspect is one that needs treatment, not special treatment and accommodations. Get these confused kids shrinks, and they can have counseling instead of gym class.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

The psychological aspect is one that needs treatment, not special treatment and accommodations. Get these confused kids shrinks, and they can have counseling instead of gym class.

Queers too?
Do they need curin' too? Better than shrinks, how 'bout some of that 'ol time religion? "Spirits of gayness, out!"

You know that transitioning transsexuals go through a great deal of psychological evaluation and therapy, right? No, I don't guess you do know that.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
Changing with a guy in the room would be unthinkable, no matter what he thinks he is or should be.

I was going to try to help you understand the plight of transgender kids and who they are and see if I could maybe give you some information that could possibly inspire you to think about them more favorably and the things their own parents have to go thorough.

Prior to offering such information, I spent a good 45 minutes going through your post history to get an idea of what you were about and your different views on things. I came away with right-wing, conservative persecuted Christian. There's nothing wrong or bad about any of that but you seem pretty entrenched and inflexible in your thinking which of course, is entirely your right to be and do.

Subsequently however, I've decided saying more to you about trans youth isn't worth my time and would be a pointless endeavor. If you wanted to know more or learn about these kids or were open to understanding them, you would have read the thread instead of reading the first post and offering a reply.

Many people don't understand these things. Some people don't even want to try. I know well enough when I encounter willful ignorance, I may as well talk to a brick wall so I'll just bite my tongue and not respond to your inconsiderate and dehumanizing comment.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

This should never have been about the transperson in the first place, it should have been about how stupid it is to force kids to change with each other.

It seems to me that, to your girls, changing in front of anyone is unthinkable. I'd also like to think that you've raised them to not judge people solely by their genitals.

The thing is, this IS about that person. Some guy feels like he's a girl, and he's offered a private room (I'd have LOVED that in school...), but he wants to change with the actual girls, instead, and they, of course, don't want this. They aren't wrong for not wanting a guy in their locker room. That he believes he's supposed to be a girl doesn't make him one, any more than I'd be the Queen of Sheba of I believed I was.

And, no, it isn't all about how people are raised, either. All of my kids are very naturally modest, and they weren't told they needed to be that way. They don't want to change in a room with each other (as in the girls changing together), or with me. The boys likewise want privacy, even from one another. I am NOT so modest, and neither is my husband, but the kids all are. That's normal. Most people do not want to change in front of others, and that's alright.

It isn't about judging anyone; it's about simple privacy and personal space. It's about a biological boy wanting to change where he can see the girls, and the girls not wanting this. whether he's attracted to them or not (and how interesting that no one has said one way or another...) isn't the issue; it's that he's a guy. If he has male parts, he doesn't belong in their locker room. If mine were in the school system, they wouldn't want that, either. Why would they? Our kids don't need to be forced to deal with this sort of behavior. They have enough on their plates going through puberty, and adapting to being adults, to have to worry about some kid who can't figure out his biology.

I don't think kids should even be allowed to be "transitioning", as it's called, because they ARE so confused. Many who do it young later wish they hadn't, anyway. From my way of thinking, such a change is simply nuts, but at the least, it should be reserved for adults, who are past all of the hormonal changes from growing up. If some kid is going through that, then they need to be where their parts go. Mae parts to the boys' areas, and female parts to the girls'. If they have both, a private room, but who would want a child subjected to that?? Kids can be hard enough on one another for plenty of other reasons, without adding that to the mix. Yet another reason it should not be legal for non-adults to be changed in such a fashion.

To the thread in general -

People aren't being "hung up", or "prudish" or whatever simply for wanting privacy. Nor are people supposed to act as though sex is supposed to be all open and "anything goes". That's a private thing; whatever people want to do, keep it private, and we won't have all these issues. Sex is supposed to be between to caring people, male and female in my book, but whatever, and that means it's personal, and should remain so. It doesn't have to be seen as shameful to be considered something best kept private. It's natural and normal, and it should be special. It isn't special if there is no privacy. And, yes, of course nude bodies are going to be seen as sexual. That's basic biology. Kids going through puberty, or just through it, don't need to be exposed to people with different plumbing. If it's that big a problem for a student, they either skip those classes or school at home. Private stalls for all would be nice, but that gets expensive.

All in all, I don't see gym class as necessary. With all the running around from class to class we did in high school, we all got enough exercise. The one year I did take gym (JROTC after that), more than half the time was sitting around doing nothing, waiting for a shirt turn at some sport or other. Plus, not everyone in the world gives a hoot about sports. I made the cable guy laugh when I asked for a "No Sports Channels" discount, but I wasn't kidding. No one here EVER watches those. As in, ever. Why should we assume all kids in school care about sports? They aren't my sort of preferred game.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

What the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for is the OBSCENE military spending. What the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay for is the subsidizing of large oil companies.

Paying for locker rooms? Well, ignoring that it's a silly idea to begin with, you do realise that transpeople also pay taxes, right?

Paying for private spaces for students would be cost-prohibitive. It would not contribute to the actual education of any student. Toss out all the sports crap, and save a ton, is my preferred solution. Those that want sports can manage it privately, and pay for dedicated channels. Ah, the though....no more preempted for some stupid sport nights on tv! But I digress....

This isn't about the military or oil; if you want to discuss those, make a thread for it. This is about one spoiled, confused teenage boy wanting to invade the girls' locker room, and some girls speaking out about it.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

The psychological aspect is one that needs treatment, not special treatment and accommodations. Get these confused kids shrinks, and they can have counseling instead of gym class.

Queers too?
Do they need curin' too? Better than shrinks, how 'bout some of that 'ol time religion? "Spirits of gayness, out!"

You know that transitioning transsexuals go through a great deal of psychological evaluation and therapy, right? No, I don't guess you do know that.

You do know that at least one in five that changes their sex through hormones and surgery regrets it later, right? One way or another, they didn't get enough counseling.

This isn't about homosexuality. Stay on topic, please.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Ah, I see you're one of the Eyes Wide Shut people. Further discourse with you is unnecessary, seeing as I doubt I have a chance of convincing you otherwise in regards to transpeople and also (apparently) homo or bisexuals. Your chance of convincing me, in turn, is likewise zero. All I can do is hope that you have an eye-opener one day, something that strikes at your core.

a reply to: Freija

In other words, you pass judgment, while claiming that I am doing so. No surprise there. If you have nothing valid to add other than a personal attack, perhaps you should reread the warnings about staying on topic.

This isn't about the "plight" of some group. This is about a biological boy wanting to use the girls' locker room, and expecting their rights to take second place to his.

That's wrong. Whatever issues he has, he doesn't have a right to force them on the other students. He was offered a private pace to change, and should take that, till such time as his anatomy fits his wants.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Ah, I see you're one of the Eyes Wide Shut people. Further discourse with you is unnecessary, seeing as I doubt I have a chance of convincing you otherwise in regards to transpeople and also (apparently) homo or bisexuals. You chance of convincing me, in turn, is likewise zero. All I can do is hope that you have an eye-opener one day, something that strikes at your core.

My eyes don't need to be shut to see a problem where one exists. I'd say people in your position, who refuse to accept that this is a problem are the ones with your eyes shut.

This isn't about how any of us feel about the guy in question; it is about whether or not his rights trump those of the rest of the students. They do not. Their rights are as important as his, and he needs to grow up and accept the solution of a separate room, till his plumbing matches his expectations. That he refuses this shows he's selfish.