Evil Is A Daily Choice

a reply to: greyer

If I avoid the people that seem to want get me into the trap, it makes them want to get me even more, and they go further out of their way to do so. But yet if a person continually tries to provoke our emotions either unintentionally or half consciously than there is nothing else to do but avoid them.

You should have been oh the thread I was on earlier. What a waste.

I just left eventually. Sometimes it becomes obvious there are clicks here waiting to pounce and keep digging and digging.

The only thing left to do like you said is just walk away.

a reply to: greyer

Meh, maybe those people just have nothing to smile about, and never notice that for themselves.

As for ego, Bruce Lee had a great line for it.

“Showing off is the fool's idea of glory.”

a reply to: intrptr

People like to feel like they belong. This generally results in tribalism or cliques. I'm fairly new here and I've seen them. I seem to be getting shuffled into one too. We'll see. I generally never stay with any clique for long. I tend to shoot myself in the for with my independent thinking.

I've been provoked by at least one clique here already. That was interesting . It's hard to not to fall for the trap. I'm still not done growing yet : p. I never seem to make enemies anywhere but I do catch a lot of flak. I've been fired or dumped or abandoned many times in life and it's almost always with regret and sorrow. The only time I was fired most of my bosses and coworkers expressed sincere regret

Life goes on. We grow and learn. Stagnation (such as becoming locked into a clique or club) is the worst thing that can happen. Stagnation is then growth or decay. Decay can at least create room for growth and new life.

originally posted by: greyer
So I entirely agree that people see things in different ways, but those same people will not describe to you the reasons for why they believe in those. In fact it is form the root, stubbornness.

I hear you.... but to be honest, I am not sure I agree it is always that. I think often, people are simply not aware where they got their ideas and perspectives. It takes much time of introspection to dig down and find those roots- and frankly, in todays world, people are too busy trying to survive, pay their bills, fulfill their duties and obligations. Retreating from the exterior world is something of a luxury.

There are so many ideas we soak up as we grow up, that are not fed to us in an explicit way- but implicitly, subtly, and repeatedly, by our environment, and we end up taking them for granted as universal truths. We have no idea that they are in fact values and perspectives that are specific to our culture... not universal truths.

They aren't always being stubborn, they often actually really believe that what they perceive about right and wrong is THE universal truth.

In your example, of when people criticize each other, I cannot think of another example that provides how thin the line is between right and wrong. It brings us back to the discussion of respect. Respect is being considerate of a person's emotions. Most people that criticize are not considering a person's emotions or they would give more positive feedback than negative, and the negative would still be put in a positive context.

See, that is true for an American, but not necessarily for someone from another culture. We Americans value positive reinforcement, and de-value negative enforcement. So our emotions follow that principle- we feel negative feelings when criticized. If you are american, talking to an american, you will be aware of that and be able to anticipate that, and respect their feelings by avoiding doing it.

But in the country I am in, their values are different, so their emotions react differently. They do not feel hurt or upset when criticized. They see it in a positive light, as show of care and solidarity, so feel good emotions when it is done to them.

Being complimented, or having someone give them positive reinforcement, they take very badly. For them it means you are being patronizing- you are insulting their intelligence (as if they are not smart enough to perceive these things without being told), and manipulative (trying to gain a position of dominance or authority over them). You hurt their feelings by doing that.

So in order for you to respect a french persons emotions, you would have to know that. You would have to be aware of how their specific emotions work!

These are blatant examples, but even individuals have different emotional reactions to different things- if you don't know, you could disrespect their emotions without doing it on purpose, and maybe not even being aware you did!
My daughter has a phobia about frogs, not many know it. But if you gave her a cute little frog, she would be hurt and angry. You would be disrespecting her emotions. But if you didn't know it, is that an evil act??


(on people bonding through bad mouthing a third person)

That is not correct. In that case it would be you and them verse me, because those things do happen to me, and I would not ever be a part of something like that, though yes it has happened to me many times. In fact people have come together to make up something fake and negative about me because they couldn't find anything truthful. How bad does that hurt? When people won't let you be yourself so much that they make up things about you and talk about you behind your back, just because you didn't do anything negative?

Wait, stop and think a second- when people talk behind your back, they think you don't know about it- so it won't hurt your feelings, and it won't change your behavior. So that can't be why they do it. They can't be trying to repress you from being yourself.

I want to be as careful about saying this as possible- but let's look at what we are doing here, now, in this thread- are we not bad mouthing people behind their back? Claiming they have evil intents of all sorts, that they are bad people?
Do you not feel more in common with those that agree with you, and feel glad they agree with you about how evil these others are?

Are you doing this to hurt them? - Or, (as I suspect,) are you just trying to gain a sense of support and solidarity with like minds?
Is that an evil intent? Or just a normal human need? (I do not judge you as bad, if that needs to be specified).

When in all this writing did I ever say I did a gesture? See this is where people start making things up to hold their side of the argument.

Wait- perhaps I am confused about which thread I am responding to- did you not say, in the OP, that you smile at people and feel that isn't received or acknowledged??? A smile is a gesture towards another.
If I got confused and you did not say that, I apologize- I certainly was not making anything up, I may have made a mistake though. Can you find no place in you that can forgive human error, instead of assuming evil harmful intent?

The day you start believing you are surrounded by evil, so you shall be.

This is also typical of the egotistical level of consciousness that creates the thoughts within the mind ....

This is the ego's way of saying "Your words don't mean anything to me, I forget them right when you say them, so in the end I am just arguing with you to take your positive energy and force you to start producing negative energy, so that you can be more like me and less righteous, and that I can have some type of control over you."

Oh wow.... you have taken things way out of their context and meaning. I simply meant to offer a little supportive word, "just don't let it get you down"!

Now, I feel you have seriously disrespected my feelings. I tried to be supportive, and bonding by sharing that I have struggles similar to yours, and "hang in there" type of messages, and you have called me egotistical and bad trying to do terrible things to you. That hurts a lot. I made myself vulnerable and open to you and you metaphorically slapped me in the face.

I will walk away, but as I do so, I will limit the damage this does to my soul by reminding myself that you probably did NOT do this on purpose. You are probably totally unaware of the good intent I had tried to communicate, you probably really believe your idea that I am out to harm you, and were trying to defend yourself, with no idea you were mistaken.

You see, understanding isn't for them, it is for you. Your anger and hatred rips apart YOUR soul. I personally choose not to do that to myself. We had a misunderstanding, and our exchange came to an end- but you are not an evil person and I forgive you for a natural human error.

ETA- I was not mistaken, you wrote in the OP- "I am the only one who sticks my head out with a smile to even acknowledge another individual, who then just ignores me." I will also forgive you for accusing me of making that up, and assume you simply got confused and made a mistake.

a reply to: Bluesma

Talking about people behind their back is most often about venting and cementing bonds. I engage in it with my friends all the time. I love all of my friends.

Some people do it to boost their own status or turn people against each other.

Socialization is incredibly complex.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Bluesma

Talking about people behind their back is most often about venting and cementing bonds. I engage in it with my friends all the time. I love all of my friends.

Exactly. This is what I meant and wanted to say, we shouldn't jump to conclusions about why people do things. There are more possibilities than "they wanted to hurt me". That is not always the case.

In the way we use that to vent, it is often done in order to get out and rid oneself of frustrations, so that they cannot continue to brew inside and influence how we act with the person in question. In other words, we go vent to a friend in order to STOP being angry or resentful, and get back to feeling okay about that third person.
That is a good intent. And it often works.... if the third person doesn't find out about the venting session, that is....

a reply to: Bluesma

I've been doing exactly that with my most ostracized and mistreated friend lately. I keep telling him not to hold stuff against them and to be a better man while validating his very justified complaints.

You're preaching to the choir here. People don't seem to understand that people are complex. I get accused of all sorts of things that are patently false. The biggest falling out I ever had was because a friend though I was ignoring her spitefully because I didn't care. I didn't see her for the week or two she was home from an awesome summer long vacation with her college roommates. Meanwhile I didn't see her because I was exhausted beyond belief from the hardest job I ever worked in my life, during the darkest time of my life.

She thought I was just an asshole who didn't care. In reality I was worn out completely and filled with depression and rage at my situation in life. So because she couldn't step into my shoes or even give me the benefit of the doubt, she devastated me brutally and went back to her vacation and had a blast. I've forgiven her competely because I know why she did it. She has severe issues with abandonment and loneliness.

Social interactions are rarely simple but we like to simplify them because complex things hurt our brains :p

a reply to: tavi45

I hear ya, I know what you mean.

Sometimes people assume that the effect someones action had on us, was the intended effect.

Sometimes it is not at all... sometimes it is like an unexpected side effect. People have their own things going on inside.
Sometimes? I am not the center of everyone else's world.

a reply to: Bluesma

I love your way of thinking. Much truth in it, even though I don't always agree, but without your statements there would very often be much less depth in this philosophical discussions.
Thanks and keep up the good fight.

a reply to: SystemResistor
If one is worried about how one is perceived then one is divided. The one that feels divided from experience is constantly judging - is this good or is this bad? Is this right or is this wrong? The one that is divided sees all things with businessman eyes.
When one is not divided from experience there is just experience and the divided one is nowhere to be found!

When one is feeling self conscious see, hear, feel, sense that you are always full of what is happening - nothing else is ever needed - in fact there is nothing other than that. Seeking more than there is or less than there is, is missing that this is fullness, wholeness always.

Wanting to appear not awkward or self absorbed in public may make you 'act' differently - there is (internal) conflict and that conflict does not make for harmony.
'He who lives in harmony with himself lives in harmony with the universe.' Marcus Aurelius.
Who cares how you appear? Assuming that you know what others think is only ever an assumption arising in you. 'Hell is other people' Jean-Paul Sartre. When 'other' is assumed there is a tendency to put thoughts in their minds - where are those thoughts and assumptions really occurring? Is it not amazing to realize that you cannot really read 'other peoples' minds and that assumptions and thoughts arise in you which lead to feelings of self consciousness which then makes one feel awkward.

a reply to: tavi45

People like to feel like they belong. This generally results in tribalism or cliques. I'm fairly new here and I've seen them. I seem to be getting shuffled into one too. We'll see. I generally never stay with any clique for long. I tend to shoot myself in the for with my independent thinking.

I think thats commendable. It is a lonely road to stand against the herd mentality, the nationalistic pride, the religious fervor , the scientific proof.

I do it all the time. See my mood…

Heres to icon bashing no matter how hard it is to teach some people new things. The alternative is to just go mooo, along with everyone else. I'd rather die.

Its harder being independent, but but more fulfilling for the soul.

a reply to: greyer

Provide proof that evil exists independently, not just by conceptualized opinion and I'll prove to you that evil, nor good for that matter, doesn't exist.

Until we put a stake through the heart of the Golden Cow, nothing matters. The end is nigh.

a reply to: intrptr

Yeah I learned that lesson the hard way. I refused to give in until I was like 19. My decision to try to be a sheep led me down a dark path of hedonism and irresponsibility. It took me nearly ten years to find the light again. I'm now happier than I've ever been in my entire life. I still get a lot of # from friends, family, clients, and strangers and even my boyfriend. Haters gonna hate. C'est la vie.

Or as my nerdy side prefers to say Ryle Hira. I bet no one knows that reference. If you do you're my new best friend . Don't cheat with google. I don't want no false lying friend :p

a reply to: tavi45

Or as my nerdy side prefers to say Ryle Hira. I bet no one knows that reference. If you do you're my new best friend . Don't cheat with google. I don't want no false lying friend :p

I don't get it. Honestly.

Thanks for this and the other reply.

Now I'm off to Google, friend.

a reply to: tavi45

Ahhh,

ring of truth

I can't help but feel this whole disrespectful attitude has been fueled by social media. Girls my age are literally becoming a chore to just be around, online dating has taught them it's ok to treat any male they don't see as a potential romantic interest like dirt. I'm 25 for a frame of reference.

originally posted by: EviLCHiMP
a reply to: greyer

Provide proof that evil exists independently, not just by conceptualized opinion and I'll prove to you that evil, nor good for that matter, doesn't exist.

Define evil. Some people say evil is only something big, like it has to be super bad in order to behold that name. Your ideas are like the man who thinks there is no such thing as good or evil. That person is turning literally their back on justice. They support every unfair thing that happens int he world every day. Since all these decisions effect the welfare of humanity, and since you are apathetic towards that, I will define that as evil and my definition will be correct out of the numerous definitions for the word. The reality on earth in time is dualistic, and only utter ignorance would argue that.

Evil is a word. A word to describe bad. God is a word, a word to describe good. God came from the word good. But it also meant union, because the people who created it were of the belief that religion was sexual. These people were pagan. And it shows that you probably hardly know where are words come from in the first place.

So I don't get into all this hype about words. So go ahead and scratch the word evil. I stated in the OP that the word was my reference for the post, and apathy is considered evil because care is considered good. How do I know that? Because I understand emotions, I understand where they come from. I understand humanity, I understand psychology. I understand what makes a person smile, what makes them frown. I understand love, and I doubt you have taken many steps to understand the pureness of that. Emotions do not just come from thoughts alone but from experiences. For you to say that it is all up to the person and not what the person experiences is really the same as hating the person and not caring about them. You are saying that Love is not factual. You are exposing yourself as a skeptic or athiest because you do not believe that good exists and is a part of nature. To be simple about it, you are lost in all respects of the word. You have come up with a belief but it has not been tested as you asked me to provide evidence, yes I have the evidence and I can provide a report, it takes many years to test these things on a scale large enough to make critical beliefs are you have. It still comes down to the root cause of action, why is this person acting this way? Is it because they care or they don't care? All you are saying is that 'it is ok not to care' because you don't believe in care or good. It will be an endless cycle of hell that you create in this world because you don't allow good to be created. That whole belief system is surely psychotic. It has also been a cycle for too long, when are you going to wake up and Become Holy?? I know it is not easy because all of the people shown by the media as holy in the world are false, so you have nothing to teach you.

I knew some of you were going to be picky on words. I even pointed it out, do not take my word for the dictionary and you still come at me with an argument over terms. If a term can mean more than one thing in the English language why do you fight each other over meanings without understanding where the person is coming from? It does not make the least amount of sense, but it happens. So why does it happen? The reason is Denial - a large thing that is invisible and hidden, it will not be known because that is how Stubborn the ego is. You have to argue what is good because you can't own up to the fact that you are not good.

So I will change everything for the one person who wants to argue over a word. I can provide evidence that many people are unjust and unfair. I can provide evidence relating to the ambition of such action being from a source of power and control. Forget about evil. I will show you reality. I will show you that the ego does everything false in the name of falsehood to keep the truth from being observed, it doesn't regret being false and creating falsehood for others, it conspires to act that way and it only wants to destroy positive emotions from the inside of another person.

When I gather all of the results and spell it out clearly with video and documented evidence, even though I will prove that pitiful people are constantly in delusion about how they should care about humanity, by showing you the specific things that are said and done every day, and show you that it is not for the truth, the benefit of humanity, but for the basis of ignorance and selfishness in order to create negative feelings in other people, you are still going to argue about the meaning of good and bad like a ridiculous neanderthal, trying as hard as you possibly can to Ignore The Facts and hold on to your Stubborn Imagination. I will have to pull the apathy card on that one because you have not yet even created any emotions in your body yet, in other words you have not yet emotionally matured, which some men never do, so you will not be able to understand me no matter what I say.

Too all the people who do understand me, or at least believe me. You are right that showing my own apathy to the creators of falsehood and negativity is crucial, because I always have to ask "What can I do to improve things" no matter how I feel, or no matter what happens.

a reply to: Bluesma

The maturity and knowingness of this post is unlike what you will find almost anywhere, I think. Bluesma describes so well the true nature of people's interpretations of others and themselves, I was astounded, and of course, it also highly resonated for me, as I've had similar issues in dealing with people and finding my way.

I hope they are wrong. If i ever start to believe that the world is made of psychopaths and narcissists that don't care about anyone else, that will destroy all that I feel is good or beautiful in me. I refuse to buy it. I stand by my perception that if you look deeper, try harder to understand, you can always find that goodness and love in each person, even if it is not evident at first.

The day you start believing you are surrounded by evil, so you shall be.

And this, particularly true. I wish you the best, Bluesma, in your struggle to not let that happen to you. I agree. Don't let it. Ever. Destroy the best parts of you.
regards,
tetra

ETA: Good thread and OP