"Mexican military chopper crosses the border, shoots at agents"---News Tuscon

a reply to: neo96

There is no could there . That is the way it is. There is one thing more valuable than money is the country, the vote

Explain to me how the vote is off value in a country where the political party elected is the one with the most funding..?

You can't tell me that NORAD wasn't watching when this helicopter flew into American airspace. My question is, why wasn't it intercepted and, after it opened fire, shot down?

a reply to: kismetpair927


Hmmm Let's see.

1) CiA buy's/rents Mexican chopper for the day

2) Fly it to the boarder then start international incident

3) CIA/Government gets there agenda met, whatever that maybe these days.

a reply to: FlyersFan
Great idea in theory, but it doesn't fit with the Obama administration's " Don't let the Americans take their country back from us" agenda.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
You can't tell me that NORAD wasn't watching when this helicopter flew into American airspace. My question is, why wasn't it intercepted and, after it opened fire, shot down?

Cause it only came over the border by 100 yards....... we do not just shoot and kill anything that steps foot on our precious US soil, sorry to burst your bubble. If we did that we would have a much bigger issue on our hands.
No one was hurt, can people get that through their heads!! Why is there the call for revenge and killing?
This was a mistake by the pilot and the authorities apologized right away.

a reply to: Sremmos80

But it didn't just cross into US airspace, did it? It opened fire.

If they had actually shot and injured or killed one of the border agents, would an apology be okay as well? How many border agents do we have to sacrifice on the US/Mexican border before border security is taken seriously?


No one was injured for which I am thankful. But whether the incursion was 100 yards or 100 miles that helicopter should, at the least, had been intercepted.

a reply to: EternalSolace

We can get into what if's all day and you can appeal to emotion by using sentences like this

How many border agents do we have to sacrifice on the US/Mexican border before border security is taken seriously?

And no an apology would not be ok at that point, so don't try and take what I said and twist it into that.

But it doesn't change what actually happened.
The bird was doing a job on their side and it took them over the border, possibly unintentionally and then shots were fired. No one was hurt, and it a bird wanted to hurt the agents, it very well could have. Probably warning shots as they had encountered unknown armed men. At that point tho they had the means to do some damage but they did not. Does it make it right? Not really, but does it call for war or retaliation? Absolutely not. I am willing to bet my big toe that we go into their air space. I am also willing to bet we have agreements with them that allow them in our airspace if they are chasing someone, which would be the case in this situation.

And to ask for us to intercept any aircraft with 100 yards??? That is a pipe dream my friend.
100 miles sure, but 100 yards?! You do know that is the size of a football field right?

ETA: For what is worth, which will be not much I am sure, mexican authorities are saying that the bird never fired and what the agents heard/saw was the smugglers/cartel member's firing at the helicopter.
townhall.com...

Tomás Zerón de Lucio, director of the criminal investigation agency of the Mexican Attorney General’s Office, said three people were detained during the operation, which targeted a ranch and a radio antenna used as a repeater by lookouts. Mexican officials said smugglers opened fire as helicopters flown by federal police and military personnel swooped in. The only shots fired were by the smugglers, who had been using the ranch since 2006 as a way station for immigrant crossing and drug trafficking,

In the comments of the article

a reply to: EternalSolace

I think if we were to fire on a Mexican government helicopter engaged in what appears to have been a purely innocent screw up on their part? The fall out would be extreme and very far reaching. Mexicans like those among the cartels, may just come to wonder why they aren't taking pot shots with .50's at our helicopters along the border within populated areas they could move close and melt away into on their side?

I don't like the Mexican Federal Forces crossing into our side any more than they like ours crossing in reverse, I am sure ..but nations don't start killing each others people unless we're enemies ..and we're anything but enemies to the Mexican people or the Mexican nation, IMO. They're brothers in ways both figurative and literal.

a reply to: Sremmos80

It is a terrorist attack. The Mexican government is trying to intimidate Americans so that illegal invaders can enter. They're essentially running interference for law-breakers. And flying a military aircraft into American territory, then firing a shot.........
They should've been blown out of the sky right then and there. To hell with their apologies! They are trying to terrorize US citizens. They are invading illegally. What don't you get about that?

a reply to: Sremmos80

I would have to ask: What was the perception of the chopper crew that they would shoot at agents that close to the border? What was the intent behind the attack?

Inquiring minds want to know lol

I understand that it was, more than likely, a simple mistake with potentially deadly results. I also try to place myself as a member of that crew and cannot find a "why" we (the crew) would fire on people that close to the border... Specially if the agents were in uniform.

a reply to: bbracken677

I do agree there, but you can get into all kinds of what if's if you start trying to put yourself in the seat of the gunner in the bird.

There is conflicting stories from each side,, so we are in the middle of a he said she said between two governments.
We will never know what actually happened IMO.
Except for that no one was hurt, that they would not cover up or spin.

a reply to: Fylgje

Ya not hurting anyone and apologizing is a great way to intimidate someone, your right.
Same thing with the terrorist attacks, they don't want to hurt anyone with them and then they say sorry about it.
They are just doing it wrong in every other part of the world where legit terrorist attacks happen.

What about NO ONE WAS HURT do you not understand?!

And please, get out of here trying to connect this back to the immigration problem, apples and watermelons there.

a reply to: Sremmos80

My point was: There has to be a real reason. I would not, more than likely, believe anything either govt said about the incident. I would be more interested in a real reason, one we will never know.

When I place myself in the gunner's seat, it is one I am familiar with... So, when I take into consideration that we are two bordering countries at peace, unless the chopper (likely) felt it was still in Mexican airspace and thought that the agents were gun or drug smugglers there would be no reason to shoot. I do not believe they take any active part in preventing the "coyotes" from smuggling humans into the US. This is why I wondered if the agents were in uniform or not. Then you have nutcases in uniform who might think that someone in the middle of nowhere would be a fun target.

In Vietnam, dropping chickens from Cessnas was viewed, by some, as high entertainment. The chickens would try to fly to catch up with the plane and once they realized that wasnt going to happen they would stop flapping and drop until there was a puff of feathers at ground level when they hit.

a reply to: yuppa

There are very good reasons we don't regularly allow military units to operate on the mainland.

a reply to: bbracken677

So we are almost on the same page it seems.
I also think the time of day that it happened was a cause to this, very early morning, possibly hard to make a clear visual of what they were seeing and once they were able to see it, they realized what had happened and knew they messed up.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000



Maybe I am far reaching when questioning why the helicopter wasn't shot down when\if it opened fire on the US agents. I'll concede to that.

However, a part of my point remains. With Luke Air Force Base right around the corner, the helicopter should have, at the least, been intercepted and sent running. At the time, I'm sure there was no way of knowing who the helicopter belonged to, or what their intentions were.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Well, I will agree with that. They should have had assets at least moving in case it didn't turn out to be a one engagement event. The helicopter could have come back on a proper attack profile and killed them all, I'd imagine. One of ours could in a reverse situation and equipment/training is equivalent I believe. At least at this level.

We could have made that ratio change radically with an F-16 flying up the border ..or whatever we have in the S.W. region for air defense post-9/11

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I guess my point behind questioning the lack of an interception or any interest from NORAD or the Air Force would be that I'm wondering if there is some kind of stand down order from the Obama administration regarding the southern border. If that were true, it would definitely let them do whatever they please. I mean, there was barely any hiccups over the murders of previous border patrol agents.

Maybe I'm reaching a bit, or maybe there is something to it. I'm just curious as to how far it all might go.

a reply to: EternalSolace

Well who would have reported the cross other then the agents that report it to dispatch and then it gets forwarded form there?
Do you think norad and that air force base has sensors that go for miles straight up that tells them when it has been crossed by an aircraft?
They would get false hits all day, that could never be the case.
Even with radar, they would still be dealing with false hits as I am willing to bet this is not the first time a bird from their side has crossed over.
If anything they prob have protocol that an unknown object has to be over the border for x amount of time before they scramble anything.
Outside of that they would relay on the agencies at the border to let them know if they needed them.

Many other possibilities outside of a president giving a stand down order to our defense.
Oh and you can thank the fast and furious op for the lack of coverage of those agents murders.