Simple question on Abortion

originally posted by: Bone75
Its not supposed to be a choice, that's why it causes so much trauma.

According to whom?

In order to go through with an abortion, you must first allow society to convince you that it is okay.

Not true.

My sister used to have the most irresistible personality you would ever have met. 2 abortions later and now my once vibrant sister eats enough pain pills to kill a horse on a daily basis.

PAIN pills? For pain? Sounds like your sister has problems FAR beyond having abortions. MANY women have abortions and never regret it, living their whole lives knowing that it was the right choice. MY sister, for example.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: openyourmind1262

Its not supposed to be a choice, that's why it causes so much trauma. In order to go through with an abortion, you must first allow society to convince you that it is okay. My sister used to have the most irresistible personality you would ever have met. 2 abortions later and now my once vibrant sister eats enough pain pills to kill a horse on a daily basis.

I'm sorry that your sister is unwell. My sister has also had two abortions and her health is just fine.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Yeah because the guilt over the abortions couldn't possibly be the cause of her drug use right?

a reply to: Bone75

I wonder who makes her feel guilty all the time?.
She doesn't have to feel any guilt at all.
I bet you love it, little digs here and there? looking down upon her.
Pffft.

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Yeah because the guilt over the abortions couldn't possibly be the cause of her drug use right?

I have no idea why your sister uses drugs. But there are many people (including men) who use drugs and there are many women who have had abortions who DON'T use drugs. So to imply that abortions cause drug use is a huge fallacy.

I'm sorry your sister uses drugs, but abortion is not the cause. Her own guilt MAY be the REASON, but legal abortion didn't cause it. If she felt abortion was wrong, she never should have had them.

a reply to: boymonkey74

You don't know me at all. I love my sister unconditionally and would NEVER say anything that would make her feel guilty about what she did. I lie to her instead and come here to vent.

a reply to: Bone75

So you just come on here to try and make other women guilty about controlling their own body I get it.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Abortion involves 2 bodies, not just one. A fetus isn't part of a woman's body, it has it's own body.
And yes to your assertion. I also come here to make cops feel guilty about beating innocent civilians to death, and to make capitalists feel guilty about enslaving entire nations, plus a lot of other things. Do you not do the same?

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: boymonkey74

Abortion involves 2 bodies, not just one. A fetus isn't part of a woman's body, it has it's own body.
And yes to your assertion. I also come here to make cops feel guilty about beating innocent civilians to death, and to make capitalists feel guilty about enslaving entire nations, plus a lot of other things. Do you not do the same?

Your right the foetus isn't part of a women's body .... However ....

To be precise abortion involves only 1 body and a structure of developing

cells which are not viable to exist on their own.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
why does the biological father have zero input in desciscions , but has no opt out from obligations

Zero input? You mean, he was prohibited from wearing a condom? Was he prohibited from getting a vasectomy? Was he prohibited from abstaining? What do you mean he has "zero input in decisions"?

Wait. How come the man's time for input is before pregnancy occurs but we never think of the woman's input that way?

Shouldn't both the man and woman be making the responsible choices about whether or not they want to get pregnant before there is a third being in the equation?

That's the time to be making the choice.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: Bone75
a reply to: boymonkey74

Abortion involves 2 bodies, not just one. A fetus isn't part of a woman's body, it has it's own body.
And yes to your assertion. I also come here to make cops feel guilty about beating innocent civilians to death, and to make capitalists feel guilty about enslaving entire nations, plus a lot of other things. Do you not do the same?

Your right the foetus isn't part of a women's body .... However ....

To be precise abortion involves only 1 body and a structure of developing

cells which are not viable to exist on their own.

Have you ever thought to ask them if they wanted to be aborted? I know what my husband would say.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Wait. How come the man's time for input is before pregnancy occurs but we never think of the woman's input that way?

I think of the women's choices before pregnancy, too. I even said that in a later post. But I was responding to a poster who said the man had no input, so I talked about the man's choices.

Shouldn't both the man and woman be making the responsible choices about whether or not they want to get pregnant before there is a third being in the equation?

Yes. They should. And IF a woman gets pregnant, she still has a choice. The man's opportunity for choice is over once the sperm is out of his body.

a reply to: James1982
No matter in what way we create the "joining of two people"... by marriage or union of some kind....we dont own the "rights" to another body. No matter what.

And if that decision affects the other? It is still up to the individual person. The other may have some rights. But in the end it rests with the individual. Period.

At this point...Im backing out of this thread and yielding to all the lady members who are more astute on this than either of us. Good luck here.......MS

Oh? Another thing about your title? This is FAR from being a SIMPLE question. To you perhaps...

Human reproduction is a messy business because we are physical animals trying to organize our world the best way we know how. We try to make guidelines and rules and laws to help with that organization, but a lot of those are arbitrary, and certainly don't cover all circumstances.

The best we can hope for is to have a kind of overall average where we have the kids we want grow up in the most favorable circumstances. And try not to cast blame or point fingers at people who aren't able to do that. Because what does that accomplish, after all?

If you concentrate on negatives instead of positives, you'll always be unhappy.

So now you even refuse to give a fetus "body" status. Lol

body [ bod-ee ]

noun [plural bod·ies.] 1. the physical structure and material substance of an animal or plant, living or dead. 2. a corpse; carcass. 3. the trunk or main mass of a thing: the body of a tree.

It sure sounds like 2 bodies are involved to me.

originally posted by: ketsuko

Have you ever thought to ask them if they wanted to be aborted? I know what my husband would say.

I'll take it that was meant as a facetious comment?

I don't think anyone could get an answer from a mass of undeveloped cells!!

originally posted by: Bone75
So now you even refuse to give a fetus "body" status. Lol

body [ bod-ee ]

noun [plural bod·ies.] 1. the physical structure and material substance of an animal or plant, living or dead. 2. a corpse; carcass. 3. the trunk or main mass of a thing: the body of a tree.

It sure sounds like 2 bodies are involved to me.

An acorn is not an oak tree and

An egg is not chicken!! ....

originally posted by: James1982
I'm going to make this one really simple to avoid people who like to veer off topic.

Simple question:

Why is it OK for women to have the right to walk away from the responsibility of a child

But it is not OK for a man to have the right to walk away from the responsibility of a child?

Anyone have a logical and non-hypocritical answer?

Its funny, you say it is not ok for men to walk away from an unwanted child....

Seems to me plenty of men have no issue walking away from unwanted children....have you seen the statistics?

Everyone cries and whines about abortion, but never much mention of this....hmmm...

In the United States, 80.6% of single parents are mothers.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: eletheia

A fetus is neither a seed or an egg. Both of your examples pale in comparison to a fetus. Neither one of them are "a structure of developing cells". (lol I felt silly just typing that)

And as far as viability goes, or rather what qualifies as a human being...

The fact is that at the time when most abortions are performed, if the doctor were to simply remove the fetus from the womb and place it on the table until it died, it most certainly would have qualified as a human being and the doctor would have been charged with murder.

That's why they kill them before they remove them... am I wrong? If so, do correct me please, and no I'm not just talking about late term abortions.

originally posted by: eletheia

A foetus is not a child. And unless you have been raped I don't think
you are qualified to pass a judgement .... ASK A RAPE VICTIM.

I was raped several times as a baby and underwent corrective surgery to repair the damage. Till this day I still suffer from physical complications, but I can't say that I suffer mentally because I was too young to remember any of it.

I've also been molested on 2 separate occasions, once by my mom's best friend (a female) when I was 10, and once when I was 15 after being drugged at a party. I got the standard treatment as well (you know like everyone making excuses for the predator.... she was drunk, he was drunk, etc.)

I don't see what any of that has to do with abortion or how it qualifies me to pass judgment any more than the next guy though. Could you perhaps elaborate?