Russian Orthodox Church is just a smokescreen

Note to mod: I'm not sure where this thread belongs more - in the secret societies or here, so feel free to move it.


Prologue

Whether in Russia or abroad you have probably been hearing about the growing power of the Russian Orthodox church and some scandals concerning that church - the Pussy Riot trial, the increasing influence of Putin's personal confessor and the shady past of the current Patriarch.

What you probably haven't heard of is the other Russian church that has been active for three and a half centuries, took active part in the Russian revolutions of 1905 and 1917, never came under KGB's control and seems to be much more powerful than what it wants to look like - the Old Believers.

Russian Orthodox Church has been actively increasing its influence in the past decade. Among other things this included taking away church buildings from other confessions and converting them into Orthodox churches. Yet there is one church right in the center of Moscow that noone could take away.



This may look like a typical Orthodox Church but in fact it is an Old Believers Church. And the offices in front of them house some of the best Russian and foreign companies incl. Pricewaterhouse Coopers and BBDO. Some of the top-ranking managers of these companies belong to the Old Believers and go to the church for prayers during their lunch breaks. But who are the Old Believers and where they came from?


The old times



The most well known thing about the Old Believers is the way they hold their fingers when they give a blessing. Jesus above should help get the idea, here is a closer look.



All modern Orthodoxes use three fingers whereas the Old Believers use two. Funny as it may seem it was one of the main official reasons of the great schism in the Russian Orthodox church in 1652-1666. Seeming trivial now in the 17th century it was a question of deep faith and rightness of rituals. The wikipedia link above should give you a lot of info about their history.

In 1652, Nikon (1605–81; Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church from 1652 to 1658) introduced a number of ritual and textual revisions with the aim of achieving uniformity between Russian and Greek Orthodox practices. Nikon, having noticed discrepancies between Russian and Greek rites and texts, ordered an adjustment of the Russian rites to align with the Greek ones of his time. In doing so, Nikon acted without adequate consultation with the clergy and without gathering a council. After the implementation of these revisions, the Church anathematized and suppressed—with the support of Muscovite state power—the prior liturgical rite itself, as well as those who were reluctant to pass to the revised rite. Those who maintained fidelity to the existing rite endured severe persecutions from the end of the 17th century until the beginning of the 20th century as schismatics (raskol'niki, Russian: раскольники).

Some conspiracy researchers believe there are deeper reasons for this: Russian Orthodox church has adopted too many pagan rituals and saints that needed to be purged in order for the church to become more modern and earthly.

Nevertheless. the schism was huge. There were entire villages burned, churches demolished, books and icons were destroyed and the protesters were severely prosecuted - until Peter the Great came into power being an Old Believer was an offence punished by a death penalty. Yet a great number of people remained Old Believers - according to some researches up to a third of the population of the Russian Empire before 1917 were Old Believers. Ever since they believed themselves to be the only true Orthodox Russians and considered the rest to be heretics.



A famous painting by Surikov depicting the purge of the Old Believers.


The rise

For some time the Old Believers lay low. They would flee to distant regions of Russia where the authorities would not reach them and where they could freely exercise their rituals. Some things about them don't even look very Christian. Like the crosses they put on the graves. The crosses are frequently put not in the head but in the legs of the deceased.





Or the way they buried their saints, these are actually graves.





Going through various hardships including increased taxes, penalties for their faith and misundertanding with the majority of the Russian population Old Believers formed stubborn character and devotion to hard work - you can compare them to early protestants or jews. They lived in small communities and soon started to earn huge sums of money.

Under Romanovs as the Russian economy began to modernize it were often the Old Believers who were the owners of the factories or the most successful traders. They would come up with tons of money and buy goods and workforce - some believe the couldn't have earned that money themselves and someone was behind them. Morozovs were one such dynasty. Remaining exhiles in the questions of faith they have quickly earned high positions in the society and even Tzar's guard was partly formed of the Old Believers due to their stubbornness and devotion.

continued in the second post

The revolution and the soviet times

Russian empire at the beginning of the 20th century was one of the fastest developing economies of the world and at the same time had so many social problems that were tearing it apart that the sad ending was almost inevitable. One of the problems were the Old Believers who had been waiting for over two centuries for their revenge. In 1905 they started forming guerilla units all over the Urals region fighting the Tzar's power. They were extremely successful as they used some of the Old Believers tricks - dressing up as women, building and hiding in the secret tunnels and storages, using forest hideouts. Tzarist forces suffered heavily from numerous terror attacks and only in 1907, two years after the first Russian revolution was over relative peace came to the Urals. In 1917 this place was again a place of severe battles and guess where the Tzar and his family were executed? Right, here, in the Urals, in Yekaterinburg. The Bolsheviks were afraid executing Nikolay in the central Orthodox regions of Russia would cause trouble.



After the revolution the Old Believers were scattered. Some of them fled Russia, this time from the communists, some remained to live in their distant villages in the god-forsaken places, some just hid their faith like the regular Orthodoxes. Unlike the Russian Orthodox church the Old Believers never came under KGB's control.

The modern times

What most Russians and foreigners know about the Old believers nowadays? It is an old christian sect that is dying out and is considered to be very religious. According to wikipedia there are 2 mil Old Believers in Russian and abroad. They are not on the news, there are very few churches and you won't just meet them in the street and if you do you won't know it. Their main spiritual center is said to be located somewhere in Austria where they fled after the revolution.

Now, all this would have been an interesting history lesson had it not been for some facts that have emerged in the past decade after some people died. There are many theories about the collapse of the Soviet Union but guess who came on top?

Boris Yeltzin, the first president of Russia - an Old Believer.



Viktor Chermomyrdin, first Russian Prime Minister - an Old Believer.



Two main post-soviet mafia bosses, Yaponchik and Ded Hasan, well, you know.






This house here was built before the revolution by an Old Believer trader. And the red church behind it is currently Russia's main Old Believer church.



In the 90s this building was owned by Berezovsky, a Russian oligarch who made it his HQ. Berezovsky's influence on the Russian politics of the 90s was well known. In this very Old Believer house he used to meet with the people who would later become members of the Russian government.

We could go on:
Putin's grandfather is said to be an Old Believer and his dad was Stalin's cook.
Sobyanin, the mayor of Moscow is one.
Some of Russia's main propagandists are (Dugin, Prokhanov).
Oligarchs (Potanin).
Actors (Yankovsky, Oleinikov).

All this just makes me think who the real rulers and who and how helped the Soviet Union collapse.

Sometime ago there was a kind of an Old Believer convent in Russia. One of their modern artists drew this poster which met the guests at the entrance. It says "We will get back everything that belongs to us".

Could it be that the Jesuits have had a hand in some of this? I think if you consider that they have infiltrated most places of power weather religious or political and military's they probably could be found some where in there .Considering their presence within the Nazi's SS and that they probably had a hand in the revolution that over threw the Tars ...Any how thanks for the thread and the history lesson ...peace

a reply to: evilcommunist

This is a really interesting post, and it's a complicated area that I don't know much about. What do you think their (Old Believers) agenda is, and what would be the outcome of their gaining increased control in Russia?

(S&F)

a reply to: beansidhe

Well if the core of the top-ranking Russian officials is indeed made up of the Old Believers (who care about faith more than the nationality, hence there are many Old Believers with the old jewish names and doesn't contradict with all the jewish capital in Russian high society) it could explain why the government is approving of more and more hardcore conservative laws and initiatives. I mean if you take a very conservative and ultra-religious granny and let her rule a modern western country, this country would probably end up being Russia of the last several years.

a reply to: evilcommunist

Thanks evilcommunist, for the clarity.

What you probably haven't heard of is the other Russian church that has been active for three and a half centuries, took active part in the Russian revolutions of 1905 and 1917, never came under KGB's control and seems to be much more powerful than what it wants to look like - the Old Believers.

I fall into that camp, never having heard of them before. It's a possible correlation then, between their growing in number, being less hidden and the move towards a more authoritarian Russia.

This is conspiracy ? A lot of staroverts ( old believers ) moved out of Russia and Soviet Union because they were times of excommunications a lot of them moved to Finland and other countries. The reason they were not tolerated was because of they refused so called reformation which Tsar was forcing to carry out for his own power play to turn the orthodox liturgy and belief system to more creek than it was.. the changes were wide also how the liturgy were carried on which was in different order than what people were used to.. Tsar´s power play in orthodox belief system was why orthodox church split in two and staroverts ( old believers ) kept the original liturgy and hand signs.

One of the main disputes focused on the cross mark, which made the Old Believers in contrast to the Orthodox. Old Believers find it upright forefinger and middle finger and pressed palm of your hand with your thumb and little finger anonymous ( fourth finger.. in finnish its called anonymous ). The Orthodox joined the thumb and middle finger and little finger and pushed the anonymous palm of your hand.

Very meaning of the fingers was different. When the Old Believers up two fingers on the two symbolic of Christ's nature, humanity and divinity, of the Orthodox sign of the cross are depicted bent two fingers on the palm of your hand. Old Believers for the first three fingers on the thumb interconnected described the Trinity Eastern Orthodox, and it is described by the other three, interconnected fingers.

However, the controversy led up to the fact that the government of the Church by the Old Believers was declared anathematized (Community of separation, a sort of excommunicated) and the Old Believers, in turn, claimed three interconnected finger describing the apocalypse anti-Christian trio, the dragon, the beast and the false prophet and experienced the changes as such apocalyptic characters, which revealed the Russian state and the Church representatives of the antichrist. These Threats and intimidation conducted the then government of the Church is engaged in persecutions, the Old Believers in the exhaust and forced expulsions up to a number of suicides. The need for uniformity were important, and the fragmentation of the state threatened the unity and security.

There has always been changes in churches where there has been separations.

a reply to: dollukka

I gave you a star for the explanations but you should read the posts to the end.

a reply to: evilcommunist

I dare to disagree on this now, my sister in law works in orthodox museum in restoration of old icons also hubby´s family seems to be these old believers..

Back
Even the religion were supressed in Soviet Union by the state there were much more religious people procentually in there than there were religious people in Europe and Scandinavia.
People worshipped in Soviet Union widely but not so openly. Im not surpriced that there were so many religious people in top positions as its a known fact that religion has always been strong in Russia and Soviet Union. What people did in their own time was their own business..
If there is a conspiracy its once again the " Royal Family" and their agendas.. and connection of Tsar´s family with house of Hanover and Saxe-Coburg. Maybe we once again see the Illuminati here but not the way you see it.

And communism itself is a conspiracy against the people

I'll bump this thread, since I think it got too little attention.

a reply to: evilcommunist

here i'll help u out,, lol, "since I think it got too little attention",,

Epicurus (/ˌɛpɪˈkjʊərəs/ or /ˌɛpɪˈkjɔːrəs/;[2] Greek: Ἐπίκουρος, Epíkouros, "ally, comrade"; 341–270 BC)

was an ancient Greek philosopher as well as the founder of the school of philosophy called Epicureanism.
Epicurus is credited with first expounding the problem of evil. David Hume in his Dialogues concerning Natural Religion (1779) cited Epicurus in stating the argument as a series of questions:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"



Christ (/kraɪst/) (ancient Greek: Χριστός, Christós, meaning 'anointed') is a translation of the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ) and the Syriac ܡܫܝܚܐ (M'shiha), the Messiah, and is used as a title for Jesus in the New Testament.
In common usage, "Christ" is generally treated as synonymous with Jesus of Nazareth.


too which Christ replied,,

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:
for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil
and on the good,
and sendeth rain on the just
and on the unjust."




Some will understand, some will not.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

Could it be that the Jesuits have had a hand in some of this?

Contrary to some claims, the Jesuits do not have their hand in everything. They are a Catholic order, not an Orthodox order -- there is a Russian Catholic Church, though it's not much to speak of, and that's where you'll find Jesuits, not in the Russian Orthodox Church.

a reply to: adjensen I thought that Rome disbanded them ? Dot they have what is called the black pope ? Were they not the ones fighting on both sides of the Indian wars in North America ? Look at Washington and then tell me that Rome had no influence there .Those Jesuits are a very sneaky bunch . Lots of links to info that says they infiltrate all religions and political powers .Like they decided to do with Protestantism they went inside to control it and destroy it ..5th column attack I believe they call it .

a reply to: the2ofusr1

If you track down the sources of most of those claims, they are generally made by kooks who have absolutely no evidence to back up their claims. Jack Chick factors in pretty heavily, and that guy has no credibility whatsoever.

Think about it for a minute -- a Jesuit is a specific type of priest trained by the Catholic Church in a Catholic seminary and by the Jesuits. The Russian Orthodox Church is a different religion with different theology, different priests, different training, different schools, and Russians. You don't think a non-Russian, who went to a Catholic seminary and was trained to be a Jesuit priest wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb? The Jesuits aren't the CIA or M6, for pete's sakes, they're educators.

Look at Washington and then tell me that Rome had no influence there

Oh, and what does this mean? Are you confusing the Masons with the Jesuits? Catholics are prohibited from joining the Masons, that's why the Knights of Columbus exists. I just watched a movie this afternoon, For Greater Glory, which was about the Masonic President of Mexico's effort to drive the Catholic Church out of his country in the 1920s, killing priests and effectively starting a war with his own people.

a reply to: adjensen

you do know that Josep Stalin ,was Jesuit trained,,right?
Graduated top of his class,, if i remember correct.

While researching Orthodox Masonry symbolism, I read that the Orthodox Church condemns Masonry, yet the very same triangle and horus eye symbols that are found in most Mormon and Catholic buildings seem to be plastered all over Orthodox buildings.

Everything I have been studying tells me that ALL mainline denominational churches have been infiltrated:

"I am convinced that many Baptist churches are NOW pastored by Jesuits"

Here are some of the articles that really got my attention:

"Patriarch Bartholomew was seen on a jet airliner in his going to meeting attire, wearing his “Mason Suit” complete with necktie (Freemasons are required to wear a suit and tie to their meetings, but Orthodox rules forbid clergy to do this). Neckties are noted as being a noose, something that Judas (who betrayed Christ with a kiss) was known for using." LINK

Orthodox Churchs have been taken over by the Vatican:

"The Black Pope’s ubiquitous Society of Jesus completely controls the Eastern Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople. Clearly, Bartholomew I was groomed by the Jesuit Papacy to be its agent in the east. According to his wikipedia entry here, his treason to the Eastern Orthodox peoples is obvious" LINK

a reply to: BobAthome

Stalin attended the Tbilisi Spiritual Seminary, which is an Orthodox, not Catholic, seminary.

He might have had a Jesuit teacher somewhere else, I suppose, but who cares? They're educators, for pity's sakes, that's their mission. Here's a list of Jesuit schools, but if you want to say that everyone who ever attended any of them is a Jesuit stooge (and I've seen people do so,) that's just crazy talk.

originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: BobAthome

Stalin attended the Tbilisi Spiritual Seminary, which is an Orthodox, not Catholic, seminary.

He might have had a Jesuit teacher somewhere else, I suppose, but who cares? They're educators, for pity's sakes, that's their mission. Here's a list of Jesuit schools, but if you want to say that everyone who ever attended any of them is a Jesuit stooge (and I've seen people do so,) that's just crazy talk.

a jesuit stooge, never, Stalin was no ones stooge,, he would have ur entire family u know what,, u, if the thought ever crossed his mind,,he made the roaring 20's gangsters look like Sunday school weaklings.

and i quote from memory,
, " anyone who believes that being kind was a weakness,,cause hey i've always been nice too people,,and crossed me,,well the last thing that they thought was, i was weak"

Alphonse Capone.

originally posted by: BobAthome
a jesuit stooge, never, Stalin was no ones stooge...

Some evidence of this would be in order.

Is there any particular reason for believing this?

The more credible and controversial conclusion is that Stalin did graduate from the Jesuit Seminary as a proper Jesuit priest, with his first assignment being to infiltrate and manage the Georgian underground against the Russian Tsarist Government. Stalin Was An Illegitimate Rothschild.

The guy above is Wlodimir ( Vladimir ) Ledochowski, a black pope during WW2 the rumours says that Putin is related to him and Putin has a same birthday which might be coincidence or fake birthday of Putin who are said to honor the black pope.
Jesuits are not uncommon in Russia after WW2 Stalin did let them in to do their missionary work. Putin also admires Stalin. So still my opinion is that old believers are not part of the conspiracy but Roman Catholic church is . Not related to conspiracy against the old believers but related to Roman Catholic church and masonry.