"Grading for Equity" - Portland Schools Mull Banning Zeroes for Cheating and Not Doing Work

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

If they can't follow rules now, are they ever going to? I highly doubt it

The failures in the system are, 9 times out of 10, on the student not the system itself. If you have 100 people taking a test, 5 of them fail, is the test too hard or are those 5 people not up to the standard?

The fix lies in finding out why can't they follow the rules, is it because of learning problems, family problems ... what is the issue and how can the child be helped instead of given an "F" for failure.

a reply to: quintessentone

If you don't fail, you won't learn

Failure shows you how not to do something, you will keep failing until you find out the right way to do something

originally posted by: quintessentone

The present rules aren't working why shoot down them trying different plans to address and hopefully fix the failures in the system?

What rules? My wife is Asian so you want to talk rules...lol At home my kids actually studied each night and could both read, spell, and do simple math before kindergarten. A kid's world is what you create it to be, they do not know anything to compare, so if you start them in a reality of study and work that is all they know as a norm.

So many parents do not do anything at home with their kids, they don't sit down with them to do homework or monitor anything. I have zero problem doing away with homework, just add it to the school events for the day. "OK class we are going to do our work problems now in class"

A school week is now less and less hours, so how do you expect kids to build the fundamentals needed in life? BTW my one kid is an EE and the other will be a doctor soon, both are super balanced kids who love sports, etc.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: quintessentone

The present rules aren't working why shoot down them trying different plans to address and hopefully fix the failures in the system?

What rules? My wife is Asian so you want to talk rules...lol At home my kids actually studied each night and could both read, spell, and do simple math before kindergarten. A kid's world is what you create it to be, they do not know anything to compare, so if you start them in a reality of study and work that is all they know as a norm.

So many parents do not do anything at home with their kids, they don't sit down with them to do homework or monitor anything. I have zero problem doing away with homework, just add it to the school events for the day. "OK class we are going to do our work problems now in class"

A school week is now less and less hours, so how do you expect kids to build the fundamentals needed in life? BTW my one kid is an EE and the other will be a doctor soon, both are super balanced kids who love sports, etc.

I also homeschooled my kids before kindergarten too to give them a good head start, but what's your main point about rules in the public school classroom or lack thereof? Do you really think the school system leaves any learning responsibility of the child to the parents who are probably too exhausted to do much or forgot their fifth grade math?

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

If you don't fail, you won't learn

Failure shows you how not to do something, you will keep failing until you find out the right way to do something

So far, the opposite has been proven, that being, failure shows kids give up trying.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

What if it's too haaarrrrd?

How hard is it not to cheat? This blanket amnesty goes for cheaters too.

a reply to: quintessentone

And that is on that kid.

That same kid will go home and play a video game for hours on end trying to beat a level that they FAILED before finally finishing it and learning how to do it the right way.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DBCowboy

What if it's too haaarrrrd?

How hard is it not to cheat? This blanket amnesty goes for cheaters too.

The most cheating I've ever seen was in university and by foreign students...the ways and means they devised to cheat were brilliant. I think grading university students vs. elementary children requires different approaches.

originally posted by: quintessentone

The fix lies in finding out why can't they follow the rules,

Because in schools they are taught not to. Like that teacher who got fired for reading the TRANS book when it was against the rules. She thought the rules didn't apply to her. Entitlement. She could do her own thing and screw the rules. So why should any of her students follow rules when the teacher doesn't.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

And that is on that kid.

That same kid will go home and play a video game for hours on end trying to beat a level that they FAILED before finally finishing it and learning how to do it the right way.

Then there should be no homework. What is all this cramming, information overload the school system keeps pushing on children; therein lies another issue that needs to be looked at under a microscope.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

If you don't fail, you won't learn

Failure shows you how not to do something, you will keep failing until you find out the right way to do something

^^ THIS

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone

The fix lies in finding out why can't they follow the rules,

Because in schools they are taught not to. Like that teacher who got fired for reading the TRANS book when it was against the rules. She thought the rules didn't apply to her. Entitlement. She could do her own thing and screw the rules. So why should any of her students follow rules when the teacher doesn't.

The children obviously saw that the teacher was fired/gone or were told, so right there they learned a lesson about not following the rules.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

If you don't fail, you won't learn

Failure shows you how not to do something, you will keep failing until you find out the right way to do something

^^ THIS

NOT THAT.

a reply to: quintessentone

Where did homework makes it's way into the conversation?

Why are you so caught up on kids being held accountable? Why is it not the kids fault that he can excel at video games but because he doesn't want to put the effort into school, it's not his fault?

If a kid is failing, and choosing to do so in most cases, that is on the kid. The teacher has 20+ other kids to worry about and can't cater to each individual student that doesn't want to put forth effort into learning what has been assigned to them

a reply to: quintessentone

Do we need to get you a dictionary?

Failure is a lack of success, and do you know what comes form a lack of success? Learning how not to do things. do you know what eventually comes from learning how not to do something? LEARNING HOW TO DO IT

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

Where did homework makes it's way into the conversation?

Why are you so caught up on kids being held accountable? Why is it not the kids fault that he can excel at video games but because he doesn't want to put the effort into school, it's not his fault?

If a kid is failing, and choosing to do so in most cases, that is on the kid. The teacher has 20+ other kids to worry about and can't cater to each individual student that doesn't want to put forth effort into learning what has been assigned to them

It's called 'no child left behind' and that is the mission that every school should take on.

originally posted by: quintessentone

NOT THAT.

YES THAT. It's basic psychology. You learn when you fail. You learn when something hurts. You learn to not do it again or to do it differently. Pretty basic stuff. Evolutionary.

originally posted by: PorkChop96
a reply to: quintessentone

Do we need to get you a dictionary?

Failure is a lack of success, and do you know what comes form a lack of success? Learning how not to do things. do you know what eventually comes from learning how not to do something? LEARNING HOW TO DO IT

Generalizing and not trying to find ways to help every child is not the way forward.

As I stated, an "F" for failure without other solutions and plans in place, will only make most kids give up trying and that kid will be left behind.

a reply to: quintessentone

No child left behind is the educational equivalent to a participation trophy

All that does is show the kid he/she doesn't have to do a damn thing in school and will graduate just like everyone else. But what they fail to realize is that once they do and decide to go to college, they will fail out in a matter of weeks and it's nobody's fault but their own.

Participation trophies do nothing but hurt those that get them. Yeah, they feel good when you get it but it hinders you in the long run

originally posted by: quintessentone

It's called 'no child left behind' and that is the mission that every school should take on.

Passing failing students isn't what 'no child left behind' is about.
And passing failing students is only ENABLING bad behavior.
It doesn't help the child at all.