The very likely direction this thing is going in....

The basis of it is that the main reason we are going to war has nothing to do with oil or anything else... It is an attempt to save the US from having its economy crumble beneath it and crash into a depression rivaling the 1930s.

I mentioned this in another post: For as long as there has been an oil economy, the US dollar has been the currency standard. However, now that the EU is here, the Euro gives an alternative to the US dollar standard. The 3 largest oil producers are Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Venezuela, in that order. Saudi is for the time being hanging onto the US Dollar. Venezuela�s president wants to keep the dollar, but his parliament is dead set on going to the Euro. There is currently severe political turmoil in Venezuela over this, and if parliament overrules the president, I would expect the CIA to initiate a coup overnight. Iraq has stated openly it WILL go to the Euro, and the hell with the US. Iran is going to do the same, and that much pressure may cause Saudi and Egypt to go that way as well.

If the US dollar is replaced by the Euro as the oil standard currency, we will see a HUGE downfall in US economy, worse than what happened in Mexico. We will become a 3rd world country overnight.

What does all this mean to the US?? Strictly speaking, yes, it does mean that we are fighting a war for the economy. However, I don�t disagree with this. The US has always been very forward in taking whatever action was necessary in order to protect national interests, both domestic and abroad. This certainly falls under that category.

Of course, this also concerns the whole of the planet. Such a transition will adversely affect the entire planetary economy to very great extent, in essence driving the entire planet into another Great Depression, a la 1930.

What MB et al were talking about was that the EU was forming a coalition (Can you say France and Germany, who did everything they could to block the war???) to not only oppose this war and allow OPEC to replace the US dollar, but to actively help in this venture. The EU would be very interested not only in having their currency come to the forefront, since this would help them financially, but because they are interested in seeing the US go down in flames.

The fact that France and Germany are taking active part in seeing this transition take place could potentially lead to a serious conflict between the US and these countries. While I doubt that we will end up in a serious shooting war between these countries, we will in effect be waging WWIII between the US and the EU on an economic level, and possibly on a military level, in that we will likely be facing other nations compelled to oppose us by the EU. This will only make things get worse, but at this point, I fail to see a viable alternative. (This has been in the works for a very VERY long time).

Our one saving grace in all this is that not all EU members are on board with this plan. The UK is staunchly besides the US (mainly because their economy is so closely tied to the US), as well as most of the eastern European/former Soviet countries. (Not sure why, maybe they are not so eager to get involved in another socialist centralized government type of organization since they just got out of one). France and Germany are the main ringleaders here, but they have a lot of pull.

My prediction is that if we are successful against Iraq, Iran will try to swap currencies, and they will be on our list next. Saudi may take note of this and keep the status quo. However, the EU is going to be exerting enormous pressure to Saudi to change, and if they do, I PROMISE we will find a reason to go into Saudi....

Some supporting links:

www.evworld.com...

www.caribbeanads.com...

spot.colorado.edu...

www.rferl.org...

www.cpa.org.au...

this is cause of great concern. britain doesn't fully agree with what we're doing. their people could very easily be setting up an economic coup to cut them off from the US and put them into the big game. if their smart they know they'd get more that way anyway. as for a new depression, i see this as making more and more sence as each piece of the puzzle falls. i haven't reaalised how vulnerable we'd be to this kind of situation. it'd likely be enacted soon anyway. america will fall to a warlord, gang rule type of thing. with the military taking the all about, and gangs in the streets. is it time to form a militia to survive? we will be much like soviet russia.

Originally posted by phoenix_cross
is it time to form a militia to survive?

If I'm not mistaken this country was founded with the idea WE WILL have militias to survive, if thats what it takes.

The meaning of "militia"
The word "militia" is a Latin abstract noun, meaning "military service", not an "armed group" (with the connotation of plurality), and that is the way the Latin-literate Founders used it. The collective term, meaning "army" or "soldiery" was "volgus militum". Since for the Romans "military service" included law enforcement and disaster response, it might be more meaningfully translated today as "defense service", associated with a "defense duty", which attaches to individuals as much as to groups of them, organized or otherwise.

When we are alone, we are all militias of one. When together with others in a situation requiring a defensive response, we have the duty to act together in concert to meet the challenge. Those two component duties, of individuals to defend the community, and to act together in concert with others present, when combined with a third component duty to prepare to do one's duty and not just wait until the danger is clear and present, comprises the militia duty.

Militia Duty: Defend. Co-operate. Prepare.

Heres some good links to militia stuff...hey I'm from Michigan, unlike alot of trolls
(still dont get it, I was born above the bridge not under it...must be a michigan thing...)

www.rootsweb.com...

www.city-net.com...

oops almost forgot--->

www.michiganmilitia.org...

this one is more um...you'll c
www.michiganmilitia.com...

[Edited on 31-3-2003 by ADVISOR]

I have posted much on the cabal (and yes, I have gotten more than a few jokes on it, but thats ok, everyone is entitled).

What I see here is a split in the cabal. The cabal has historically been a coalition of very wealthy families and organizations originating in Europe, mainly from England, France, and Germany/Prussia. Currently, most power is split with France and Germany more or less on thier own, with the US having the UK, Spain, Italy, and most of the former Soviet Bloc countries behind it.

Russia is likely the wildcard in all this. Russia was actively against the US starting this war, and evidence exists that they are actively helping Iraq against the US. Why would they do so? I imagine that the Russians still remember what Ronald Reagan did to Russia when he bankrupted them with his SDI/arms race in the 1980s. I am sure that Russia is very interested in returning the favor to the US in kind, and are more than willing to team with France and Germany to do so.

Can this possibly lead to an armed conflict with Russia? Russia currently uses the Dollar oil standard, but if they are in collusion with France and Germany, how long can it be before they go to the Euro? The odds if that happens is not good that we would avert a shooting war. However, the Russians are a bit more level headed than that, and will likely keep the dollar standard until OPEC switches.

Also of concern is where China and North Korea stand on things. China currently has strong economic ties with the US, however, if the US starts sinking, I imagine it wouldnt take much time for them to drop us and end up with the EU. I believe they may be using North Korea as a front, possibly to act as a blocking motion in the event that there is a conflict with the US.

Whichever way you look at things, the situation is beyond SNAFU, at least into TARFU, and verging on FUBAR.

Militia is a wonderful idea. However, in the age of Homeland Security, it is too easy for any militia to be tagged as a terrorist cell to be eliminated. Does this conflict with the US constitution? Of course. But thats just an inconvenience soon to be rectified with Patriot II, which will effectively eliminate the constitution.

Originally posted by dragonrider
Militia is a wonderful idea. However, in the age of Homeland Security, it is too easy for any militia to be tagged as a terrorist cell to be eliminated. Does this conflict with the US constitution? Of course. But thats just an inconvenience soon to be rectified with Patriot II, which will effectively eliminate the constitution.

NOT on my watch!

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants".
--Thomas Jefferson

I will say this "Patriot Act" bs is not very patriotic and infringes American rights to privacy, but I'm willing to give, but not with out takeing. If the constitution is eliminated, I personally will be a headline. DAMN straight! People are still in this country last I checked, and trust me those of us in my state are very ready for a closed curtain takeover by the people behind the government.



"The best way to have peace is to always be prepared to fight a war"
--George Washington

"Those who choose to sacrifice Liberty for temporary security deserve neither Liberty nor security"


I would totally agree with your sentiment... However, the fact is that Patriot II is currently making its way through congress.

Dragonrider is absolutely correct. Congress to me seems to be secretly trying to pass this Patriot Act II. I'm all with ADVISOR on this one. When the Constitution is gone, my question is. Do you think the people of America will actually stand up and do something about it, or be more of an Armchair General? I'm not a dangerous person, but if they come and try to come in my house, I will defend my family. I dont want my kids growing up in what appears to Nazi Germany happening all over again. sorry, got off track there, that's what happens when you have ADD...ohh look...a blue car...

anyways, to restate my question, do you think people will actually stand up and fight...or watch Survivor?
I dont know what generation I am in relation to the rest of you, but while I was in public school, I can honestly say that we did not learn much about the Constitution. I remember plenty about American History, and all the other basics, but not a single class directly devoted to teaching what the Constitution means. And I think that's one of the problems. It was only in college that I became so interested as to why people would want to leave their homes, and be willing to face certain persecution in order to secure freedom, that I started reading what the Constitution was all about. So again, are you prepared to stand up for liberty and freedom, or watch it all in a made for tv movie?

i didn't learn jackcrap about the constitution last year in american history and even then it was only when it was signed and a few ppl who signed it. very few americans have read it. even fewer understand it. if we do set up a militia, we must use the constitution as our doctrine. we must move fast to expose the imperialism that america is launching. i know i'm young, but that only gives me more freedom. people don;t notice kids. i mean, in a crowd. there are a bunch of ways a kid looks like so even if they're after me i could dissappear. err i got off track. anyway, we convince the people that our gov't is screwing us over. we must do something about the current poergobbling administration, no matter what. i will quote malcom X:

BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!!!

The problem is the Constitution will continue to not be teached in public schools. Not sure about private schools. And I totally agree that we should found these groups with the Constitution as the starting point. See, the Constitution was put in place to keep government in check, not the other way around. I think if people were actually taught what the Constitution means, then they would be mad as hell as most people are who read it and understand it are. Can you blame them? look how out of the people's power this gov has become. our Forefathers would spin in their graves if they knew what was going on.

dragon you have to admit, this fits with what masterblaster and co were saying, that basically the us is going to fall....

My 2 cents...I have been working with a fairly large group of people here to try and stop the Govt. from taking away our rights...The problem is, most of America have no idea that we are losing our rights...I think it would be safe to say that some don't even know we had the rights to begin with. To give you an example, I was wearing my 9 mm on my belt last week, (Basically out of protest of us losing our rights) when I was approached by a man I have known for about a year. He said to me, "Wow, I didn't know you had one of those licenses to carry a firearm." That is part of what I am talking about, he thought that you had to have a license to carry a gun. I told him it is a constitutional right and he had never heard of it. We are losing our rights every day, we probably need to unite and see if we are able to get a strong enough resistance going, or before long we will all be merely taking orders.
____________________________________________
Be Cool
K_OS

well i will only be pushed so far...

HERE IS A CONSPIRACY!!

When i was backpacking though western europe, i stopped by a duty free shop in airport
Prices were in dollars and when i asked clerk how much it would cost in euros, she said, "same".

That was something to think about.

Sooner or later there will be one currency

[Edited on 31-3-2003 by Papa Karlo]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!
I might actually support the war if the real reasons had been brought to congress and the support of it was sought from our people. But this president comes from a family of snakes and honesty is not listed among his assets. The world trade center meeting with aircraft was his first deception . I felt that in my heart on 9-11-01. Just like operation Northwoods. I resent the deception more than the war. I understand there may be a need for war but I won't follow a liar and deciever inasmuch as I suspect that he would swallow the citizens of the US after swallowing Saddam. I would be supporting the war now , perhaps, with a true leader, not this pied piper. I still don't believe a plane hit the pentagon. PERIOD. Christianity demands that you believe in the unseen. I suppose we need a revival.

I watched a re run of x-files last night ( thier timing is impeccable) the smoking man says- the best way to ensure our future's safety is to invent the future. 911-inventing the future. You know, by what the president and all his script writers say, it's a new world as of sept. 11, 2001. I would like to get it in writing. That means a new deal. (sound familiar) I believe that means our mortages are all paid off!!! Our debts are all paid!!!!! We don't need war or to worry about paying off our debts. Under a humanist system where is the wrong in not paying your bills? Morality preached by humanists such as william bennett and Ollie North. HAH!!!

Let me make this perfectly CLEAR (as the scientologists say)

WE THE PEOPLE of THE United states of America wrote our script many years ago.

It is called the Declaration of independance. The U.S. constitution is the contract and the Bill of Rights is the FINE PRINT!!!!!!!

Are you CLEAR on that?????

L.Ron Hubbard and the followers of Dianetics are the enemies of America!!!! Do you need a directional ARROW in th form of a traffic sign to open your eyes???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Praise the ever living , loving God. The unknown God.

[Edited on 31-3-2003 by tr]

[Edited on 31-3-2003 by tr]

tr

Please don't bring that religious propaganda babble in to this thread. I hear what your saying , but that's another topic.

Things are going to be changing quickly right in front of our eyes...that is as certain as bad breath in the morning. Many think that war is the most viable means of resolving a conflict, but don't be fooled...economic conflict has profound and staggering consequences rarely discussed due to simple ignorance (no dissing intended).

The true world power is currently working on ALL methods of domination...war, brainwashing, and economy. Everything is going according to plan for them at this point...stay tuned for more physical, emotional, and financial suffering along with subjective mind control courtesy of your local media.

Can anything or anyone stop these NWO bastards?

One last thought:

(WE, THE SHEEPLE OF THE UNITED STATES...)

this is no time to sit around and type. i'm tired of not doing anything and waiting to see what haooens. what happens the day we see something and our powerless to fight it? we must act now, we must act quick. we have to organise those willing to fight in order to be ready to battle the new order when they bring it into play. many people say we should do something, but they do not act. what is this but hesitation? i say stand, i say fight, prepare yourselves for conflict now instead of tomorrow. who ever is ready to fight, stand up and join the Militia! stand and fight for your freedom. become the true patriots. no law by congress shall restrain us any further. the government mustn't be allowed to bring their plans any further.

for freedom.

But I do concur on the dollar vs. euro arguement. This is one of the primary reasons I am for the war. As an American, I want to see my country thrive, not lose power... That's why the brits (also not on the euro...go figure ) are with us in this. With Iraqi UN reserves back on the dollar, and following that, Iran...things should shape up nicely. I disagree that otherwise we'd be a third world nation overnight....but it certainly wouldn't be "good" for the economy...

Thankfully, the war is going well (despite what the press may think...just look at the numbers and do the math), so it's just a matter of time.

Gazrok, I'm with you, except for one point. I'm from EU.

So the wholly OPEC was going to switch to the Euro? Didn't know of that. I have nothing to argue on that. It doesn't matter.

What is wrong then with France and Germany to be against the war? Defending their interests? Taking war to Iraq is the way for USA to defend its interest, and the only real one. The other effects, including killing Saddam are some beneficial side-effects, but not the main point.

Don't want to loose power? We neither.

But one point to say. If we EU have survided and managed ourselves fairly well with the OPEC using the dollar, why you think you couldn't manage as well with the OPEC using the �uro?

[Edited on 2003-4-8 by MakodFilu]