The Big Bang Cycle?

Every galaxy in the universe has a power source and laws to keep the stars in constant motion and order. Everything in the universe is bound by the same rule. Just as an orchestra is guided by the smallest movement of a conductor�s baton, the universe is similarly guided by the movements and properties of gravity provided by black holes. Conductors don�t simply stand before the orchestra and wildly wave their baton hoping the notes of the string section will be beautifully meshed with the sounds from the rest of the orchestra. It is the sheet music that the conductor follows that brings order and creates a beautiful seamless meshing of sound. But the conductor really isn�t in control, he only follows the movements written by the composer. I find this to be proof of god�s existence. Let me continue with my theory on the birth and death of the known Universe. And yes I said death, I know of nothing that has a beginning and no end. Destruction and decay must be complete to allow any cycle to exist.

It has been known for some time that at the heart of virtually every large galaxy in the universe lays a black hole. Perhaps the most violent and powerful points of energy in the universe, black holes form when matter gathers at a single place, often from a collapsing, massive star. This point, drawing in more and more matter, becomes so dense that nothing can escape, not even light. It becomes black and unseen.

Anything caught up in its center is removed from the rest of the universe. It is the thing that brings order from chaos, without them we would have on structure for planetary bodies. Simply look at the symmetry of any spiral galaxy.


The force of gravity sets the galaxy into motion and captures anything that wonders too close. The outer edge spins more slowly gradually increasing in speed as you move towards the center. Eventually, like a conveyor belt feeding a cosmic vacuum, everything in it will be consumed, all that will be left is black hole hurling through space.

Astronomers can find black holes that aren�t currently �feeding� by the distortions in star light emitted from behind the black hole, as seen from earth�s perspective. Probably because they have already consumed the swirling mass of stars, and planets that surrounded them long ago. The inevitable conclusion is that this will happen to every large galaxy in the universe. The leftover black holes will continue to consume all the remaining matter left in the universe until the only thing left to consume are other black holes.

So now we have a universe full of hungry black holes flying through space. They combine together when they get to close, becoming even larger and more powerful. Eventually with time, the super massive black holes begin to combine until only two remain. Einstein solved the mystery with General relativity by showing that gravity warps space and time. A heavy object, such as our sun, distorts that space-time fabric, bending it slightly, like a bowling ball on a mattress; I believe the same would be true for black holes. When the two remaining black holes combine the warp on space time would be so great the opposite ends of the mattress would touch. The power of gravity would be so immense that it would go beyond just bending space-time and begin consuming it. So all the matter in the universe is compressed in the bowels of one super massive black hole, as the fabric of space-time is drawn into the black hole it becomes smaller and smaller until it can stand no more. At this point we get another �Big Bang�, allowing the conductor to start from the begging of the sheet music provided to him by the composer.

�As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end�






[edit on 3/12/2008 by kinglizard]

I have had the same cyclical belief as well for some time! This would imply though that we will live our exact lives an infinite amount of time - once in each cycle, and would also imply that we would live our lives exactly the same way we did before. Every minute action in all of the universe would be exactly the same within each cycle.

If major religions and governments know this, it could effect them in many many ways. For religions, it would completely undermind the vast majority of them. For instance, in Christianity, we are told that God gave us free will. Well if our exact movements and decissions were, are, and always will be the same it goes against genisis and basic beliefs. The entire afterlife concept would be destroyed because we would know that we will definatly live again - in this universe, in our bodies.

As far as the government is concerned, it would destroy our entire legal system for one - imagine the lawsuits against the government if every criminal in jail found out that he did not choose to kill/steal/rape someone, he was "forced to" by the laws of the galaxy!

I am not sure if you know anything about the unified theory, but if you are interested I would read up on it. It is speculated that if one knew this and knew the exact amount of matter in the universe, one could "tell the future" because you would know exactly where every spec of matter in the universe would be at any specific time!

Originally posted by TheButcher
I am not sure if you know anything about the unified theory, but if you are interested I would read up on it.

I don't know much about the unified theory. Can you recommend a decent book written in layman terms?

May I sugest Fredrick Pohl's Gateway series.

it is science fiction, but it is very acurate and well written. There are 4 or 5 books in the whole series.

[Edited on 17-2-2004 by HowardRoark]

There are many problems with your theory...

First off, a conductor does not do much at all, he simply tells the orchestra when to start.

We do not yet know all the properties of gravity, so how can you go wildly guessing that gravity is a powerful enough force to rip the entire universe apart? Supposedly the universe is infinite, meaning infinite mass, meaning a single black hole would have to be equal. This cannot be true since infinity can be measure by time. Of course this theory only holds true if the universe is infinite (thats another discussion)

Anything caught up in its center is removed forever from the rest of the universe. It is the thing that brings order from chaos, without them we would have on structure for planetary bodies. Simply look at the symmetry of any spiral galaxy

Removed from the universe? Where did you get that one? We still don't know anything about black holes, they still remain in theory.

Astronomers can find black holes that aren�t currently �feeding� by the distortions in star light emitted from behind the black hole, as seen from earth�s perspective.

So let me get this straight. A black hole can suck in light, yet we can see the distortion of light from behind the black hole?

As for the universe being the same over and over again, this is an interesting idea, but things in this universe are so random that we cannot simply find any patterns in it. I find it extremely unlikely that things are occuring the exact same way as they were before.

Sorry i can't think of any books off hand - If I remember correctly Hawkins is a big believer and im sure most books by him dealing with black holes would be revavent. I'm thinking maybe the book a brief history of time, though that may not be the name of it since it has been a while.

MrJingles, I may be mistaken, but I do believe that the ammount of matter in the Universe is finite according to currnet theory.

Also blackholes are not speculation - they are very much a reality. Our own milkway, as well as the MAJORITY of galaxys have at the center a blackhole. That is why most galaxys are "spiral" galaxys. The blackhole at the center is engulfing all the matter in it's galaxy. At this very moment, we are being sucked into it! the thing is, that we will not be close to the blackhole for billions of years, long after our sun dies out, so it is the least of our problems.

The way they "bend" light is that the light gets very close to the blackhole, but it does not reach the blackholes "point of no return" or event horizon. The gravitational pull of the black hole is such that it actually pulls the light towords the blackhole, out of it's normal path, but never engulfs it.

Originally posted by MrJingles
There are many problems with your theory...

First off, a conductor does not do much at all, he simply tells the orchestra when to start.

What does a conductor do? - A short, sharp and shiny explanation.
It is the conductor's job to lead the orchestra. As you will hear in film music the role of the conductor is of crucial importance. The conductor controls the orchestra by a series of hand gestures and use of the baton. Movements from the right hand indicate the tempo of the piece, the first beat of each measure being indicated by a sharp downward movement. The left hand is used to indicate when certain sections of the orchestra should "come-in" by pointing at them. It can also be used to direct soloists, balance between sections of the orchestra (strings, winds, brass, etc.) and reflect the dynamics of a piece: that is, to tell the orchestra when to play quietly, then loudly, with more roundness, etc. As a result the performance of identical pieces can be highly varied due to the conductor's own interpretation or style.

We do not yet know all the properties of gravity, so how can you go wildly guessing that gravity is a powerful enough force to rip the entire universe apart? Supposedly the universe is infinite, meaning infinite mass, meaning a single black hole would have to be equal. This cannot be true since infinity can be measure by time. Of course this theory only holds true if the universe is infinite (thats another discussion)

Removed from the universe? Where did you get that one? We still don't know anything about black holes, they still remain in theory.

Einstein�s ingenious work on gravitation whereby the space-time continuum is distorted into inclinations whenever it comes across a considerable body of mass. Space thus consists of energy and is a form of energy in its own right. Shrinking behavior creates black holes in which the matter is released by singularity in the form of an energetic path that creates a wave formation. In other words:

Energetic matter = shrinking energy, space, and time

Time, which is found in every energetic creation, is also linked to the energetic unit �the quant�that was formed. According to Max Planck�s research, since the Big Bang, every natural unit is aligned in a quant formation that also includes time. In other words, time is a component of the quantum.

The inclination of space is responsible for gravitation. This, then, explains how black holes remove space. Furthermore, it explains how space creates black holes, which expel energetic matter by means of singularity in the form of energetic paths, and why stars appear along the energetic paths. The latter create planets as well as atoms that are responsible for all the living formations that we are familiar with. As such, virtual energetic space creates everything, even our brain, thoughts, and soul.

So let me get this straight. A black hole can suck in light, yet we can see the distortion of light from behind the black hole?

In short Yes!

Black holes can and do bend light, and this movie will demonstrate it for you.

Also give this a read.

Effects of a black hole
Einstein's general relativity describes gravity as a curvature of the space-time continuum. The more concentrated the mass, the more curvature you obtain.
If we draw the framework of space-time as a plane (actually there are 4 dimensions : 3 for the space, and one for time), we can visualize this curvature, in an illustrative way.



In the case of a black hole, the curvature may have no end : there would be a tear in the fabric of space-time .

[Edited on 2-3-2004 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by MrJingles
So let me get this straight. A black hole can suck in light, yet we can see the distortion of light from behind the black hole?

yeah. if light goes thru and doesnt hit the event horizon, it can stil be seen. in addition, black holes are constantly emitting 'jets' of radiowaves (i believe, i cud be wrong on the type, its either that or gamma - yes ino theyre completely different) and those are easily detectable.
ma two centz

Originally posted by kinglizard
In the case of a black hole, the curvature may have no end : there would be a tear in the fabric of space-time .

ive never heard anything about ripping space-time. i do no, however, that black holes end up as a singularity. if it ripped the space-time continuum, ud find a problem, because, in theory, it wud only have the other 7(+) dimensions to go to, and wed be losing a lot of matter and energy fast. if we were getting it all back eventually, wed have noticed it by now, thats a lot of energy to just disappear and reappear.

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer

in addition, black holes are constantly emitting 'jets' of radiowaves (i believe, i cud be wrong on the type, its either that or gamma - yes ino theyre completely different) and those are easily detectable.
ma two centz

Yeah, black holes emit huge amounts of X-rays because stars falling into them get compressed and heated and release large amounts of energy before they are engulfed by the black hole.

It was thought that black holes don�t give out any energy at all (except when engulfing stars). However, in 1971 a Russian physicist, Yokov Zel�devich thought that black holes may emit protons and other particles. It was proven by Stephen Hawking three years later that black holes emit subatomic particles. These are now called Hawking radiation.


[Edited on 17-2-2004 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer

Originally posted by kinglizard
In the case of a black hole, the curvature may have no end : there would be a tear in the fabric of space-time .

ive never heard anything about ripping space-time. i do no, however, that black holes end up as a singularity. if it ripped the space-time continuum, ud find a problem, because, in theory, it wud only have the other 7(+) dimensions to go to, and wed be losing a lot of matter and energy fast. if we were getting it all back eventually, wed have noticed it by now, thats a lot of energy to just disappear and reappear.

A bed sheet is unfolded, stretched out, and held at the four corners creating a thin, flat sheet which is similar to space-time. If a tennis ball is placed on the sheet, it would roll around and eventually come to a stop somewhere near the middle of the sheet. If a second ball is added, it would move in a similar pattern to that of the first ball. Summed up by Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) physics professor Alan Goth "Space tells matter how to move. Matter tells space how to bend (Gribbon 147-9)." The interesting part of the analogy comes when a bowling ball is added to the sheet. With enough mass and energy, the bowling ball would rip a hole in the sheet. This would be similar to an object ripping a hole in the space-time continuum.

Physicists believe these rips in space-time continuum are what are known as black holes.

so i think we can now assume blackholes do in fact exist?

if the universe has infinite mass that would mean that the end black hole has infinite mass 2?

About living the exact same stuff as in previous universes i dont think so. according to scientists of before around einsteins time you could tell exactly how someting was going to move inter-react and so forth and could therefore predict exactly what it was going to do based on its property, until they did a little experiment and discovered quantum uncertainty. Sorry i cant find the link but a good example is when photons hit a mirror, most get reflected but some go through, this aint cos of there properties its because there is a uncertainty and it is merely chance on wether they go through or not. i dont know if that will apply on ur scale or not though.

The nature of dark energy remains largely a mystery, but the repulsive force it generates is for responsible for the accelerating expansion of the Universe. The first evidence for this acceleration was found in 1999 when distant supernovae were discovered further away than could be explained by a steady expansion rate.

gravitaionally repulsive?? interesting.

[Edited on 17-2-2004 by quiksilver]

Originally posted by TheButcher
so i think we can now assume blackholes do in fact exist?

It must be said that some people, with supporting arguments, think that a black hole is physically impossible.
All the theory about black holes must be considered with the utmost care, by keeping in mind the fact that it's only a mathematical theory, at the moment, whose physical reality is always unsure.

Originally posted by kinglizard
With enough mass and energy, the bowling ball would rip a hole in the sheet. This would be similar to an object ripping a hole in the space-time continuum.

Physicists believe these rips in space-time continuum are what are known as black holes.

ive heard the rubebr sheet anaolgy before, i think we all have.
the problem with the rubber sheet, and really anything, is that existance exists in 4D, we can only really think in 3D, and can only draw in 2D.
The bowling ball rips thru the sheet because it can. in space, there is nowhere to go, and no reason for it to tear. its much easier for it to jsut bend space a lot (infinitely?). and, like i said, if it ripped, its goin somewhere, into the other dimensions, and wed notice that like the motha it is.
u got a link or anything? cuz my space stays (relatively) intact.

a black hole expands into 1 dimension 2 dimensions and 3 dimensions at the same time, why cant it expand into time or somthing lol? i mean when u look at a star its not like u can see it sinking. so it must be explained by the gravities effect on information??(eg radiation light matter) that makes it seem like that to anything but itself.

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer

Originally posted by kinglizard
With enough mass and energy, the bowling ball would rip a hole in the sheet. This would be similar to an object ripping a hole in the space-time continuum.

Physicists believe these rips in space-time continuum are what are known as black holes.

ive heard the rubebr sheet anaolgy before, i think we all have.
the problem with the rubber sheet, and really anything, is that existance exists in 4D, we can only really think in 3D, and can only draw in 2D.
The bowling ball rips thru the sheet because it can. in space, there is nowhere to go, and no reason for it to tear. its much easier for it to jsut bend space a lot (infinitely?). and, like i said, if it ripped, its goin somewhere, into the other dimensions, and wed notice that like the motha it is.
u got a link or anything? cuz my space stays (relatively) intact.

I think the most interesting and prudent question relating to this thread is: What is the Universe made of?

Originally posted by quiksilver
a black hole expands into 1 dimension 2 dimensions and 3 dimensions at the same time, why cant it expand into time or somthing lol? i mean when u look at a star its not like u can see it sinking. so it must be explained by the gravities effect on information??(eg radiation light matter) that makes it seem like that to anything but itself.

it does, we jsut cant see it. the bending isnt like u bend a sheet, thats the problem, its bending dimensions, so it never seems bent.
and to the what is the universe made up of, well, a lot. we need a certain amount of matter to keep things flat because then things work, such as triangles. if the universe isnt flat, then triangles dont add up to 180 degrees, which they shud/do.
the type of dark matter which 'works' revolves around a constant, lambda, which is some number times 10^-50, a freakishly small number (the smallest of any significance) yet accounts for upwards of 70% of the matter in the universe.
and that, my friend, is the universe (or most of it)