Anti-war nations 'took bribes' before war began.

Interestingly enough, this is coming from an outlet that was also deemed "anti-war". Ironic? Dubious indeed.....

"Anti-war nations 'took bribes' before war began"
Link:
news.independent.co.uk...

Excerpt:

"28 January 2004


Claims that dozens of politicians, including some from prominent anti-war countries such as France, had taken bribes to support Saddam Hussein are to be investigated by the Iraqi authorities. The US-backed Iraqi Governing Council decided to check after an independent Baghdad newspaper, al-Mada, published a list which it said was based on oil ministry documents.

The 46 individuals, companies and organisations inside and outside Iraq were given millions of barrels of oil, the documents show. Thousands of papers were looted from the State Oil Marketing Organisation after Baghdad fell to US forces on 9 April."


This same article was carried in the French news outlet: Le Mende.fr.
www.lemonde.fr...@2-3218,36-350628,0.html

Translation here:
translate.google.com...@2-3218%2C36-350628%2C0.html&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en& ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

Excerpt:

"Iraqi newspaper "Al-Mada" published a list of the profit people of generosities of the ra�s. Eleven French are quoted, of which Charles Pasqua. A person in charge for the ministry for oil affirms that "law-suits" will be committed to recover "the money of the Iraqi people".
Baghdad of our special correspondent

Saddam Hussein rewarded his/her foreign friends, in particular all those who were the zealoies of its mode and were made the ambassadors of them. That was known. More than ten months after the fall of the Iraqi dictatorship, of the elements of proof were published for the first time, Sunday January 25, by an independent newspaper Al-Mada ( the Horizon ).

On a full page, this new slack daily newspaper in its 45 E number, the list of more than 270 known or unknown personalities, companies, members of Parliament, associations, the journalists, the political parties which benefitted from generosities of the deposed ra�s. Facsimiled with the support, this newspaper denounces "the greatest operation of corruption" of Ancien R�gime. And it affirms that "million oil barrels was offered to individuals who have nothing to do with the oil activities" . On the whole, 16 Arab countries, 17 Europeans, 9 Asian and 4 of North and Africa and South America are concerned with this operation of reward."


With the possibilities that this report may be forged, and the silence from Washington over this, will this blow out of proportion?
Was Saddam really involved in a programme of "No War for Oil" or "Your Vote for Oil"?

Interesting find, nonetheless.


regards
seekerof

That is interesting. I don't doubt it, but I'd like to see confirmation.

and everybody blames america because we 'prosecuted' the war for oil.....no we know why france and it minoins did not war with iraq.......the aswer is always the same..doesn't matter what side u are on just follow the $$$$$

Found another article mentioning this:

"Saddam's web of bribery 'went round the world'"
Link:
www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2004/01/28/wirq28.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/28/ixnewstop.html


In reading these few articles, humorously, I pondered to myself if Scott Ritter was on that list. I then remember reading something associated with this a while back and went looking for it.....here it is:

"Saddam's Cash
From the May 5, 2003 issue: And the journalists and politicians he bought with it."
Link:
www.weeklystandard.com...

If I am not mistaken though, I think Galloway story was found to be somewhat false, but I posted the article for relevance.


Then I ran across this article, yahoo through Reuters, on the way back to post the two above:

"Iraq to Probe Alleged Saddam Oil Bribes"
Link:
story.news.yahoo.com.../nm/20040127/ts_nm/energy_iraq_corruption_dc


And then this one:

"Oil for favors by Saddam alleged"
Link:
dailystar.com.lb...

Excerpts:

"The report alleges that at least 270 people, including politicians and journalists of different nationalities received millions of barrels in oil from former Iraqi ruler Saddam Hussein as a reward for their support of his regime and for financing the anti-embargo campaign....."

Emphasis on this:

"....that prominent personalities including journalists, sons of ministers and heads of states were involved in the deal, and had been given huge amounts of crude oil for free."


I believe what I highlighted above is pretty much mentioned in all the articles...the degrees vary.

The thing that comes to mind is if this is false propaganda, mis-direction, or real truth? Hmm, I guess time will tell, or will it?



regards
seekerof

I don't see the big deal even if this was true and its basis in reality has yet to be determined.

France taking bribes from saddam?? Sounds similar to US attempts to give france a bad name simply because they dont support bush's war of terror. If there were really evidence of this I suspect it would be in many more media sources as it is quite a serious allegation.

Is this article implying that Saddam bought off France?

What of all the money AIPAC spends in Washington?

Should there be similar concerns?

MEMRI has published the full list, here it is;
www.memri.org...
The following report from MEMRI's Baghdad office is a translation of an article which appeared in the Iraqi daily Al-Mada,(1) which obtained lists of 270 companies, organizations, and individuals awarded allocations (vouchers) of crude oil by Saddam Hussein's regime. The beneficiaries reside in 50 countries: 16 Arab, 17 European, 9 Asian, and the rest from sub-Saharan Africa and Latin America. Only a portion of the 270 recipients are listed and identified.

Background

The following points should be taken into consideration:

First, MEMRI is not responsible for the accuracy of the details with regard to the names listed or the amount of oil granted.

Second, all names listed in the original were in Arabic. Some of those are transliterated into English phonetically, and may not be precise.

Third, denials by those whose names appear in this dispatch are footnoted.

Fourth, the issuing of vouchers by Saddam's regime may have served two primary purposes:

A: Payments in the form of bribes to individuals and organizations for their support of the regime.

B: Vouchers may have been issued to pay for goods and services that fell under U.N. Security Council sanctions and could not be financed under the "Oil for Food" program. Goods may have included military equipment or military parts, luxury automobiles that Saddam distributed as gifts inside and outside Iraq, and general luxury goods for the benefit of high-ranking officials in the Ba'ath party and government.

Fifth, the voucher recipients sold the vouchers to oil traders, who then collected the oil against the vouchers from the Kirkuk-Banias (Syria) pipeline terminal, which was operating in contravention of the Security Council sanctions. The pipeline carried 200,000 barrels per day of Iraqi oil, which benefited Syria greatly.


Al-Mada's Article

The following are excerpts from the article:

"Under this professional and electrifying title, there are names that have nothing to do with oil companies, or the distribution, storage, and marketing of oil. They are not known for having any interest in oil or any links to oil companies, such as the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Communist Party.

"As far as the individuals, the situation is even more puzzling. We can understand that the journalist Hameeda Na'Na', who defended the former regime, was trying to perpetuate her independent journalistic endeavor through an oil deal, but it is strange to find the names of Khaled, son of the late Gamal Abd Al-Nasser, in those lists, or Toujan Al-Faisal, former member of the Jordanian parliament, or the present Indonesian president, or the son of the Syrian defense minister, or the son of the Lebanese president."

Saddam's Exploitation of U.N. Sanctions

"Since the deposed regime endorsed the 'Memorandum of Understanding,' also known as 'oil for food [program],' it turned it into a despicable political and commercial game, and used it to finance its clandestine acquisitions of arms, expensive construction materials for the presidential palaces and mosques, and frivolous luxury items. It turned the oil sales agreements into the greatest bribery operation in history, buying souls and pens, and squandering the nation's resources.

"Since then, rumors were abound about vouchers that Saddam gave to certain Arab and foreign dignitaries, providing them with crude oil in exchange for their support to the regime in a period of international isolation, and as a way to finance the campaign to lift the economic sanctions against it and to whitewash its image.

"However, the regime itself tarnished the moral and humane ethics of the international campaign to lift the unjust sanctions, because by the end of the day the sanctions did not harm it [the regime], but harmed our poor people and the middle class. We saw that whenever the international campaign to lift the sanctions got closer to its goals, the regime - by its behavior and insolence - shoved it again into a dark tunnel, and at the same time turned our country into a free-for-all richly loaded dining table, awaiting a stream of hearty eaters and obedient servants.

"One of the traits of our country's fascist regime is that it lacked decency and was always in need to use others in order to feel superior. Therefore, it corrupted even those who had good intentions and noble goals when defending the Iraqi people and trying to lift the siege imposed on it. The regime was versed only in the politics of the 'open wallet,' and therefore surrounded itself with people that it could co-opt and people who would panhandle for it, so that it could feel moral superiority over them.

"And if one happened to know some of the official Ba'athists, who did not hesitate - because of their rural values - to boast and to [assume] moral superiority, one would have heard a lot from them about the ever-increasing number of visitors to Iraq in recent years, and would have understood from them that those visitors who came to defend us also came to cash in the price for that. We can confirm this information because the Ba'athists themselves, in a moment of 'rural pompousness,' propagated the rumors about the Arab and foreign visitors. They mentioned some of the names listed here, among them George Galloway, member of the [British] Labor party.

"The case of Mr. Galloway is truly distressing. This man, who defended just Arab causes, became a loser as he got closer to the Iraqi regime. Galloway, who was banished from the party for this reason and who defended himself vehemently, and even attacked Tony Blair's and Bush's policies, will not be able - in my opinion - to refute Iraqi documents that incriminate him conclusively.

"In addition to the lists mentioned above, Al-Mada also obtained six requests from the executive director and the associate executive director of the Oil Marketing Company to the Oil Minister 'to approve the crude oil agreements.' All of them mentioned the name of Mr. Galloway, not as a party in the agreement, but as a recipient, since Mr. Galloway hides behind a company that does not carry his name nor his nationality.

"The manner by which these agreements were struck sheds light on the process of awarding the vouchers and the goodwill of the President of the Republic [Saddam]. That is why we wish to decipher it, especially since the lists include some individual names such as 'Samir,' and no one knows whether it belongs to an individual or to a company."

The List

The following is a partial list and description of individuals and organizations that MEMRI has been able to identify2)

Canada: Arthur Millholland, president and CEO of the Calgary-based Oilexco company, received 1 million barrels of oil.

United States: Samir Vincent received 10.5 million barrels. In 2000, Vincent, an Iraqi-born American citizen who has lived in the U.S. since 1958, organized a delegation of Iraqi religious leaders to visit the U.S. and meet with former president Jimmy Carter. Shaker Al-Khafaji, the pro-Saddam chairman of the 17th conference of Iraqi expatriates, received 1 million barrels.

Great Britain: George Galloway received 1 million barrels. Fawwaz Zreiqat received 1 million barrels. Zreiqat also appears in the Jordanian section as having received 6 million barrels. The Mujahideen Khalq(3) in Britain received 1 million barrels.

France: The French-Arab Friendship Association received 15.1 million barrels. Former French Interior Minister Charles Pasqua received 12 million barrels.(4) Patrick Maugein of the Trafigura company received 25 million barrels. Michel Grimard, founder of the French-Iraqi Export Club, received 17.1 million barrels.

Switzerland: Glenco Re, the largest commodity trader in Switzerland, received 12 million barrels. Taurus, which has been associated with Iraq for 20 years and was the first company to renew its business with Iraq after the fall of Saddam, received 1 million barrels. Petrogas, which is listed under three sub-companies - Petrogas Services, Petrogas Distribution, and Petrogas Resources - and is associated with the Russian company Rosneftegazetroy, received 1 million barrels. Alcon, listed in Lichtenstein and associated with larger oil companies, received 1 million barrels. Finar Holdings, which is listed in Lugano, Switzerland, and is under liquidation, received 1 million barrels.

Italy: The Italian Petrol Union received 1 million barrels. West Petrol, an Italian company that trades crude oil and oil products, received 1 million barrels. Roberto Formigoni, possibly the president of Lombardia, received 1 million barrels. Salvatore Nicotra, a former NATO pilot who became an oil merchant, received 1 million barrels.

Spain: Basem Qaqish, a member of the Spanish Committee for the Defense of the Arab Cause, received 1 million barrels. Ali Ballout, a pro-Saddam Lebanese journalist, received 1 million barrels. Javier Robert received 1 million barrels.

Yugoslavia: Four Yugoslav political parties received vouchers: the Yugoslav Left party received 9.5 million barrels. The Socialist Party received 1 million barrels. The Italian Party received 1 million barrels. Another party, whose name in exact transliteration is "kokstuntsha" - possibly Kostunica's party - received 1 million barrels.

Other political parties: The Romanian Labor Party received 5.5 million barrels. The Party of the Hungarian Interest received 4.7 million barrels. The Bulgarian Socialist Party received 12 million barrels. The Slovakian Communist Party received 1 million barrels.

Austria: The Arab-Austrian Society received 1 million barrels.

Brazil: The 8th of October Movement, a Brazilian Communist group, received 4.5 million barrels. Fuwad Sirhan received 10 million barrels.

Egypt: Khaled Gamal Abd Al-Nasser, son of the late Egyptian president, received 16.6 million barrels. 'Imad Al-Galda, a businessman and a member of the Egyptian parliament from President Mubarak's National Democratic Party, received 14 million barrels. Abd Al-Azim Mannaf,(5) editor of the Sout Al-Arab newspaper, received 6 million barrels. Muhammad Hilmi, editor of the Egyptian paper Sahwat Misr,(6) received an undisclosed number of barrels. The United Arab Company received 6 million barrels. The Nile and Euphrates Company received 3 million barrels. The Al-Multaqa Foundation for Press and Publication received 1 million barrels.(7)

Libya: Prime Minister Shukri Ghanem received 1 million barrels.

Sub-Saharan Africa: Chad's foreign minister received 1 million barrels.(8) Four South Africans are listed: Tokyo Saxville received 4 million barrels. Montega received 4 million barrels. Both are associated with the African National Party.

Palestinians: The Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) received 4 million barrels. The PLO Political Bureau received 5 million barrels. Abu Al-Abbas received 11.5 million barrels. Abdallah Al-Horani received 8 million barrels. The PFLP received 5 million barrels. Wafa Tawfiq Al-Sayegh received 4 million barrels.

Oman: The Al-Shanfari group received 5 million barrels.

Syria: Farras Mustafa Tlass, the son of Syrian Defense Minister Mustafa Tlass, received 6 million barrels. 'Audh Amourah received 18 million barrels. Ghassan Zakariya received 6 million barrels. Anwar Al-Aqqad received 2 million barrels. Hamida Na'Na', the owner of the Al-Wafaq Al-Arabi periodical, received 1 million barrels.

Lebanon: The son of Lebanese President Emil Lahoud received 4.5 million barrels. Former MP Najjah Wakim received 3 million barrels. Nasserist Party head Osama M'arouf received 3 million barrels. National Arabic Club Chairman Faisal Darnika received 3 million barrels.

Jordan: Former Islamist MP and head of the Engineers Union Leith Shbeilat(9) received 15.5 million barrels. Former MP and Jordanian Writers Union head Fakhri Qi'war received 6 million barrels.(10) Former Jordanian chief of staff Mashhour Haditha received 1 million barrels. Former MP Toujan Al-Faisal received 3 million barrels.(11) The Jordanian Ministry of Energy received 5 million barrels. Muhammad Saleh Al-Horani, the Amman Stock Exchange head and former Minister of Supplies, received 4 million barrels. Lawyer Wamidth Hussein Al-Majali received 6 million barrels.(12)

Qatar: Qatari Horseracing Association Chairman Hamad bin Ali Aal Thani received 14 million barrels. Gulf Petroleum received 2 million barrels.

The Indian Congress Party received 1 million barrels.

Indonesia: Indonesian President Megawati received 1 million barrels as "the daughter of President Sukarno," and 1 million barrels as Megawati.

Myanmar: Myanmar's Forestry Minister received 1 million barrels.

Ukraine: The Social Democratic Party received 1 million barrels. The Communist Party received 6 million barrels. The Socialist Party received 1 million barrels. The FTD oil company received 1 million barrels, as did other Ukrainian companies.

Belarus: The Liberal Party received 1 million barrels. The Communist Party received 1 ton [sic] of oil. The director of the Belarussian president's office received 1 million barrels.

Russia: The Russian state itself received 1,366,000,000 barrels. The list also included the following:

Companies belonging to the Liberal Democratic Party received 79.8 million barrels - the list notes the name of party president Vladimir Zhirinovsky. The Russian Communist Party received 1 million barrels. The Lukoil company received 63 million barrels. The Russneft company received 35.5 million barrels. Vladimir Putin's Peace and Unity Party received 34 million barrels - the list notes the name of party chairwoman Saji Umalatova. The Gazprom company received 26 million barrels. The Soyuzneftgaz company received 25.5 million barrels - the list notes the name Shafrannik. The Moscow Oil Company received 25.1 million barrels. The Onako company received 22.2 million barrels. The Sidanco company received 21.2 million barrels. The Russian Association for Solidarity with Iraq received 12.5 million barrels. The Ural Invest company received 8.5 million barrels. Russneft Gazexport received 12.5 million barrels. The Transneft company received 9 million barrels. The Sibneft company received 8.1 million barrels. The Stroyneftgaz company received 6 million barrels. The Russian Committee for Solidarity with the People of Iraq received 6.5 million barrels - the list notes the name of committee chairman Rudasev. The Russian Orthodox Church received 5 million barrels. The Moscow Science Academy received 3.5 million barrels. The Chechnya Administration received 2 million barrels. The National Democratic Party received 2 million barrels. The Nordwest group received 2 million barrels. The Yukos company received 2 million barrels. One Russian company which phonetically reads as Zarabsneft received 174.5 million barrels. Vouchers were also granted to the Russian foreign ministry, one under the name of Al-Fayko for 1 million barrels, and one to Yetumin for 30.1 million barrels. The Mashinoimport Company received 1 million barrels. The Slavneft Company received 1 million barrels. The Caspian Invest Company (Kalika) received 1 million barrels. The Tatneft Tatarstan company received 1 million barrels. The Surgutneft company received 1 million barrels. Siberia's oil and gas company received 1 million barrels.

In addition, the son of the former Russian Ambassador to Iraq received 19.7 million barrels. Nikolay Ryjkov, a former prime minister of the USSR, received 13 million barrels. The Russian President's office director received 5 million barrels.

Oil vouchers were also distributed to companies and individuals from the Sudan, Yemen, Cyprus, Turkey, Vietnam, Bangladesh, Malaysia, Pakistan, the UAE, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Panama, Thailand, Chad, China, Nigeria, Kenya, Ireland, Bahrain, and the Philippines. Two Saudi companies were also listed.

Endnotes:
(1) Al-Mada (Baghdad), January 25, 2004. Al-Mada is an independent daily, published in Baghdad. Fakhri Karim is the Editor-in-Chief.
(2) More details about sources of organizations and individuals listed will appear in a forthcoming report.
(3) The Mujahideen Khalq is an organization which opposes the Iranian regime. The U.S. government has classified it as a terrorist group.
(4) Mr. Pasqua denied receiving anything from Saddam. Radio France Internationale (RFI), January 27, 2004.
(5) Mr. Manaf states that he has documents which show that he was made an offer but that he declined. Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), January 26, 2004.
(6) Muhammad Hilmi also has a son named "Saddam."
(7) An anonymous official of the Al-Multaqa Foundation stated that the foundation's relations with Iraq were limited to the distribution of its newspaper in Iraq. Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), January 26, 2004.
(8) Chad was mentioned at one time as a possible source of uranium for Iraq.
(9) Shbeilat issued a statement denouncing the publication of the names as an attempt to harm the reputations of nationalists who opposed the invasion of Iraq. Al-Quds Al-Arabi (London), January 28, 2004.
(10) Qi'war said: "This has no base in truth. They are merely accusations whose reasons I do not know." Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), January 26, 2004.
(11) Ms. Faisal maintains that the vouchers were meant for her political friend, Abd Al-Rahman Al-Qatarna, on whose behalf she intervened with the Iraqi authorities. Al-Quds Al-Arabi (London), January 28, 2004.
(12) Mr. Majali said the publication about him is false. He said he was a member of a popular committee for the support of Iraq, which provided medicines to Iraq paid for by the members of the committee "from their own pockets." Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), January 26, 2004.

Well, well, seems a little 'searching' on a bit of those names will reveal alot.

But, hey ....doesn't matter after all does it? I mean, whats good for the 'goose' is definitely not good for the gander, right?

Dirt can get thrown in one direction but forbid if it gets thrown in the other.......because all that comes out of the crapper is: "no big deal", "AIPAC", "evidences....what evidences"...and then the unmentioned ultimate: "it doesn't matter".....

Personally, I'll be digging/researching on a few of those names to see just how high the already mentioned "follow the money" went or may have went.
If anything at all...this 'war' is going to show that the # was just as deep on the other side of the 'water' as it is on this side.
More to follow....



regards
seekerof

Just in a quick glance I noticed this:

"Palestinians: The Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) received 4 million barrels. The PLO Political Bureau received 5 million barrels. Abu Al-Abbas received 11.5 million barrels. Abdallah Al-Horani received 8 million barrels. The PFLP received 5 million barrels. Wafa Tawfiq Al-Sayegh received 4 million barrels."


My, my.............
Saddam had no connection to terrorism? Didn't fund and support terrorism?
Hey, and top that, I recognize this name:
"Abu Al-Abbas"..... no way!
Isn't that the ex-Prime Minister who worked with and for Arafat? I think the article left out or forgot to mention the monies that Saddam was paying to the "marytrs" families for their respective losses.....



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 28-1-2004 by Seekerof]

Lets weigh the respective charges here. One side performed an illegal invasion, the other some illegal oil bribes. The former is certainly more damaging than the latter. This is before anything is set in stone regarding the truth of either charge of which Iraq was blamed for many things previously and all have turned up false. The illegal invasion thing is much more a reality than this bit of fresh news is in any case.

Oil bribes in relation to what heelstone? The "illegial" war and "who" voted against it or "who" had power to influence and spout their "anti-war" mantras?
Possibly, if not for many of these so-called bribes that many of you take no heed of, the "illegial" invasion you speak of may still be considered an "illegial" invasion but the difference being that the vote to 'action' might well have been unanimous, eh?
As to your claims, and others of "illegial".....
Let me add this: what one sees as right, another may see as wrong.....in other words is it objective or subjective reasoning that gives such conclusions? How does one know that what he/she believes is right or wrong, is not right or wrong, when viewed by others?
"Illegial" or not, Saddam is sitting in a 8x10 cell awaiting trial. Iraq is free from his being under his thumb.
Now, there is this report that shows those, who hold UN positions of authority and power within their own respective nations, were influenced to vote with an "anti-war" stance and ultimately cause the divide in the international community over with the invasion was fully backed, thus justified, or not fully backed and thus unjustified.
In simple terms:
The "illegial" invasion may have been just that to you, but be assurded, to others, it was deemed, termed, and concluded: justified.
Many of you screamed and harped about the "illegial" war was about OIL....

Points:

1) I have YET to see where the OIL has done any good in the US.....speculations of $3 a gallon come summer is showing just how unfounded those beliefs were! Please feel free to tell me how this OIL has done anything for the US.

2) OIL: Look at the list of those that have been named and discovered, and not including those that haven't been named or discovered....and guess what? We know where and to whom the OIL DID benefit...don't we?

PA. PLO, PLA, France, Russia, Putin, Chirac, and to many contirbuters and leaders of the anti-war, anti-vote, left movement.....interesting, is it not? certainly is to me.



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 29-1-2004 by Seekerof]

Before any conclusions are jumped to it's important to understand the context and the possible tit for tat going on.

In this world of oil politics, I doubt there are any clean hands. It's brutish and nasty and the bottom line rules. France was opposed to the war. America could not bribe them. The US did bribe and twist arms to patch together their little coalition of the "willing." Had it not been for that, it would have been more like the coalition of a few White Men. So, is it ok for one country or man to use bribery and not for another?

Personally, I think bribery is corrupt wherever it is. That was yet another reason I opposed the invasion. If you have to bribe people, you are clearly in the wrong.

Right now, all this might just have to do with the fact that Richard Cheney, himself, stands to be indicted by a FRENCH court for bribery, money-laundering and misuse of corporate assets. This is a little something the American media has been quite silent on. Read about it here in the Nation:

Will the French Indict Cheney?
by Doug Ireland

The suspected bribe money was mostly ladled out between 1995 and 2000, when Cheney was Halliburton's CEO. The Journal du Dimanche reported on December 21 that "it is probable that some of the 'retrocommissions' found their way back to the United States" and asked, did this money go "to Halliburton's officials? To officials of the Republican Party?" These questions have so far gone unasked by America's media, which have completely ignored the explosive Le Figaro headline revealing the targeting of Cheney. It will be interesting to see if the US press looks seriously into this ticking time-bomb of a scandal before the November elections.
www.thenation.com...


Let's talk about dishonesty. This administration cannot be trusted. Why believe anything they accuse France of when they themselves have been completely dishonest in representing their part in Saddam's buildup? Remember that Iraq dossier on weapons of mass destruction that came out in 2002, given to the UN Security Council? The US snatched it before its release and tore out 8000 pages of information linking the US to Saddam's build-up. Hhmmm... wonder what could've been in there? US companies giving technology and supplies to evil Saddam? I'm pretty sure of it. Otherwise, why the cencership? Because US companies are as dirty as anyone else in this game of oil politics.

Read about:
Published on Sunday, December 22, 2002 by The Sunday Herald (Scotland)
America Tore Out 8000 Pages of Iraq Dossier
by James Cusick and Felicity Arbuthnot

THE United States edited out more than 8000 crucial pages of Iraq's 11,800-page dossier on weapons, before passing on a sanitized version to the 10 non-permanent members of the United Nations security council.
www.commondreams.org.../headlines02/1222- 02.htm

Link to terrorism? There are US companies, as we speak, who aren't looking so hot these days, especially considering their possible link to terror. Companies like Halliburton (big surprise), Conoco-Phillips and General Electric. Violated the law.. violated the spirot of the law.. I say what's the difference. If you are an American business and you profit from our enemies, you should be punished to the fullest extent. Take a look at this:

Doing Business With The Enemy

Jan. 25, 2004
CBS) Did it ever occur to you that when President Bush says, "Money is the lifeblood of terrorist operations," he's talking about your money -- and every other American's money?

Just about everyone with a 401(k) pension plan or mutual fund has money invested in companies that are doing business in so-called rogue states.

In other words, there are U.S. companies that are helping drive the economies of countries like Iran, Syria and Libya that have sponsored terrorists.
www.cbsnews.com...
Alotta mud bein slung folks. Nobody's hands are clean.

Good work Seekerof. Its suprising to see how many jumped out to bury your findings. In one breath, they claim to be for the Iraqi's rights to their soveriegnty and in the next criticise them for investigating illegal exports by the man who had held them captive for so long. I think we have all known for some time whats been going on in Iraq and I really don't envy those put with the task of defending or distorting it. Just glad its not me. I'm glad I'm free to use all the information and call it like it is. The funny thing is, I'll bet the US will officially support and defend France of these allegations even as their very own supported government in Iraq charges them. Poor France..ah, sometime people back the wrong pony. Its their arrogance and hatred for the US. It tainted their view and led to pretty bug snafu. Bedding down with someone like Saddam is a dangerous game. If you do it, you'de better be ready for the consequences.

Originally posted by astrocreep
Good work Seekerof. Its suprising to see how many jumped out to bury your findings. In one breath, they claim to be for the Iraqi's rights to their soveriegnty and in the next criticise them for investigating illegal exports by the man who had held them captive for so long. I think we have all known for some time whats been going on in Iraq and I really don't envy those put with the task of defending or distorting it. Just glad its not me. I'm glad I'm free to use all the information and call it like it is. The funny thing is, I'll bet the US will officially support and defend France of these allegations even as their very own supported government in Iraq charges them. Poor France..ah, sometime people back the wrong pony. Its their arrogance and hatred for the US. It tainted their view and led to pretty bug snafu. Bedding down with someone like Saddam is a dangerous game. If you do it, you'de better be ready for the consequences.

Who exactly are you referring to "bedding down with Saddam?"

Mock France all you want. It's not even your own idea, though. The media has programmed you to mock them. You should formulate your own thinking, Astrocreep, then you might pull some influence. By the way, what say you about the charges concerning Cheney?

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Originally posted by astrocreep
Good work Seekerof. Its suprising to see how many jumped out to bury your findings. In one breath, they claim to be for the Iraqi's rights to their soveriegnty and in the next criticise them for investigating illegal exports by the man who had held them captive for so long. I think we have all known for some time whats been going on in Iraq and I really don't envy those put with the task of defending or distorting it. Just glad its not me. I'm glad I'm free to use all the information and call it like it is. The funny thing is, I'll bet the US will officially support and defend France of these allegations even as their very own supported government in Iraq charges them. Poor France..ah, sometime people back the wrong pony. Its their arrogance and hatred for the US. It tainted their view and led to pretty bug snafu. Bedding down with someone like Saddam is a dangerous game. If you do it, you'de better be ready for the consequences.

Who exactly are you referring to "bedding down with Saddam?"

Mock France all you want. It's not even your own idea, though. The media has programmed you to mock them. You should formulate your own thinking, Astrocreep, then you might pull some influence. By the way, what say you about the charges concerning Cheney?

I've been to France, and except for the people in the hotel, they're pretty rude.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid


Who exactly are you referring to "bedding down with Saddam?"

Mock France all you want. It's not even your own idea, though. The media has programmed you to mock them. You should formulate your own thinking, Astrocreep, then you might pull some influence. By the way, what say you about the charges concerning Cheney?

I mean the countries that took brides and cheated on the oil for food program who knew that Saddam was diverting money to his WMD programs. Thats who I mean. I'm not mocking France just asserting that dealing with someone like him is a dangerous game, plain and simple.

As for the Cheney thing, I am really not informed enough to comment. Like so many others on here, I don't speculate unless I'm pretty damn sure of what I'm saying. The things I am sure of sometimes just tend to sting those refusing to awake from their delusions. I've never heard so many people champion such a brutal tyrant. How soon we forget the atrocities he commited.

That's an interesting looking list...one problem...all of that is unfounded information...just like the weapons of mass destruction we have been after. I will believe this when there is real EVIDENCE that it took place. Notice at the bottom where it says:

"(2) More details about sources of organizations and individuals listed will appear in a forthcoming report."

Hah...that is some pretty incriminating information for a news report to not even include the sources or "more details" about how they know that this went on.

If this information were proven to be true, it would be all over more proficient international media sources...

MEMRI- Middle East Media Research Institute

"Founded in February 1998 to inform the debate over U.S. policy in the Middle East"

"MEMRI's headquarters is located in Washington, DC"

That should have made you a bit skeptical about its intentions...justifying the war, maybe, since we already know it truely is "illegial" as you have said. Now that Bush has been called out numerous times for being caught in his lies.

This article was actually published...
Al-Mada (Baghdad), January 25, 2004. Al-Mada is an independent daily, published in Baghdad. Fakhri Karim is the Editor-in-Chief.

That is questionable as well...sorry but we need to see proof that this happened. Even if the information is true, it wouldn't justify the war. That is beside the point as Bush sold the war to congress based on incorrect "evidence" that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction with potential to attack us. We have found no such weapons.

See seekerof, theres nothing wrong with reporting this article saying that it could be true and then discussing it...but you try to pass it off as fact...even though it is a shoddy source at best, with no evidence....this is no different than conspiracy theorists who read one thing on the internet and then claim we will be attacked by aliens in 20 days.

Once again, show me the evidence...

You know it is funny the media has reported so much information of weapons of mass destruction "evidence" "intelligence" and so forth....yet we haven't found ANY weapons of mass destruction!

Now they are "weapons of mass destruction-related programs" and now Bush is trying to back out of the lies he sold to congress to go get his oil, which of course the american public would not see any price changes as the dividend goes to the government/Bush's bank account.

I'm not criticizing anything you guys are posting, just that with all the hype of weapons, and no weapons, it is hard to believe any of this. Just encouraging you be skeptical about EVERYTHING you read, even if it agrees with what you WANT to be true.

Originally posted by astrocreep

Originally posted by EastCoastKid


As for the Cheney thing, I am really not informed enough to comment. Like so many others on here, I don't speculate unless I'm pretty damn sure of what I'm saying. The things I am sure of sometimes just tend to sting those refusing to awake from their delusions. I've never heard so many people champion such a brutal tyrant. How soon we forget the atrocities he commited.

There are a lot of people who swim in their dillusions. I've not heard anyone at ATS "champion" Saddam Hussein. Personally, I would've killed him on the spot during the Gulf war had I had the chance. Read this so you have an idea of what Cheney could be facing. Here you go:

Will the French Indict Cheney?
by Doug Ireland

Will the French Indict Cheney?
by DOUG IRELAND

[posted online on December 29, 2003]

Yet another sordid chapter in the murky annals of Halliburton might well lead to the indictment of Dick Cheney by a French court on charges of bribery, money-laundering and misuse of corporate assets.

At the heart of the matter is a $6 billion gas liquification factory built in Nigeria on behalf of oil mammoth Shell by Halliburton--the company Cheney headed before becoming Vice President--in partnership with a large French petroengineering company, Technip. Nigeria has been rated by the anticorruption watchdog Transparency International as the second-most corrupt country in the world, surpassed only by Bangladesh.

One of France's best-known investigating magistrates, Judge Renaud van Ruymbeke--who came to fame by unearthing major French campaign finance scandals in the 1990s that led to a raft of indictments--has been conducting a probe of the Nigeria deal since October. And, three days before Christmas, the Paris daily Le Figaro front-paged the news that Judge van Ruymbeke had notified the Justice Ministry that Cheney might be among those eventually indicted as a result of his investigation.
www.thenation.com...