POLITICS: Palestinian PM Steps Down- Gives Job to Hamas

The Palestinian PM and his (Fatah) party have resigned, although full election results have not yet been tabulated, and Hamas will take over.



Something very strange happened in Palestine. I'm not really all that aware of their political system, aside from the fact that its parliamentary in nature, and that Hamas is the "militant" party. The political implications of this (pre-emptive) resignation are mind- boggling. Please discuss.

PS, This is my first post and, now that I think about it, I don't think this is actually a 'conspiracy', although I'm sure someone would be able to find one. Mods, feel free to move this, or whatever- I just thought it was important.

[edit on 26-1-2006 by HarlemHottie]Text BlackText Black

[edit on 26-1-2006 by HarlemHottie]

Interesting development.

If the Northern Irish example is anything to work by atleast we can hope for an end to the violent campaign by Hamas if they become involved in the political process. Perhaps we could even witness a splintering of Hamas ala the IRA and the Real IRA, with the splinter not having any where near the support or funding that the former terrorist organization had.

Either way, any reduction in violence due to increased involvement in the political process is a win for Palestinians and Israelis alike.

No question this is a huge development. There are a number of ramifications. Hamas dedicated itself to the destruction of Israel and was always a fringe militant group. By that I mean they were able to go about there business and have no real responsibility to the people of Palestine. Now, being the elected party, the buck stops with them. If conditions don't improve, they'll be blamed. If the populace suspects corruption, they'll be blamed. Essentially, they'll get the blame for everything. That's a far cry from their past when they could operate freely without having to answer to anyone. They very well could be sorry they ever got elected.

"If the Northern Irish example is anything to work by atleast we can hope for an end to the violent campaign by Hamas if they become involved in the political process... Either way, any reduction in violence due to increased involvement in the political process is a win for Palestinians and Israelis alike."

I'm really sure yet about how to quote, so you'll have to forgive me, but, yeah, I'd have to agree with you, subz.

I always thought that the Palestinians kinda had good reason to be upset, with their country being "reclaimed" and then, not even having any say in the details (NB: I am NOT condoning, or justifying, suicide- bombing).

They were disenfranchised, and as we know from examples all over the world during the mid- twentieth century, that never, ever works out well. So now, the militants (who, by the looks of the election, seem to be the majority) at least have the power to make themselves heard. The question is: will anyone listen?

[edit on 26-1-2006 by HarlemHottie] for re-pagination, and yes, I made that word up.

[edit on 26-1-2006 by HarlemHottie]

Well this is what happens when you "spread democracy"
This is what america wanted, the start of democracy in the middle east, yes the PM did retire but im sure it was because of the overwhelming popularity of the Hamas party. But hey thats democracy, the majoirty are right no matter what.
A proud day for America.

It will be very interesting to see what happens, especially since most of the newly elected Palestinian officials are currently in Israeli prisons. Hamas, given some power, might moderate but it could also use that power to attack Israel further. Only time will tell, but this is a very significant event in that region's politics.

Well, initial indications are that Hamas' stance toward Israel is unchanged:

Hamas officials held out the possibility of a coalition with Fatah and other parties -- and reaffirmed the group's commitment to what it calls armed resistance against Israeli occupation, as well as its opposition to negotiations with Israel.
Hamas

The US's stance on Hamas has not changed, either, according to SoS Rice:

"You cannot have one foot in politics and another in terror," told an international conference in Davos, Switzerland via a telephone hookup to the State Department. "Our position on Hamas has therefore not changed."
US

Hamas has conducted a very effective PR campaign. They've hired media PR agents to help them improve their image, build schools, roads and hospitals for the Palestinians, etc. in an attempt to distract Palestinians and the world from their true goal, which is the utter destruction of Israel. They've convinced so many in the world that the utter destruction of Israel means having their own state and control of the Gaza strip and West Bank. They have other Arab countries going to bat for them helping create this illusion, including Egypt stating they're sure Hamas recognizes the legitimacy of the Israeli state.

As to the democracy idea, some Americans are idealists believing the masses would go along with what we see as best for them. The French liberal movement made this mistake when they allowed all the population to vote in France in the late 1700s. That completely blew up in their faces and Napoleon the third was elected, moving France back to a monarchy instead of a republic, as the movement had wanted and expected. A democracy will only represent the people and the culture, not establish an ideology. I support spreading democracy through the world to give the people a choice. If America wants to spread policy and support through the world, we have to do something else. Combat propaganda with propaganda?

Hamas isn't a militant party or the political wing of a militant party, its a paramilitary AMRY that is dedicated the the destruction is Israel, per Hamas. Fatah and Seinn Feinn were the political wings of the PLO and IRA. Hamas has no political wing, its just hamas.

I don't understand what this election and majority win for Hamas actually means. Hamas, the organization, is at war with Israel. Does this mean that Palestine, not just de facto but de juris, is at war with Israel? Does this mean that he yehudis can, and indeed if war is their status then they're obliged to, send their Army in to destroy the government and really occupy the country?

Also, Israel used to attack Hamas with impunity, they'd target and kill Hamas members and leadership. Is that political assasination now? Can they target and kill whoever the new Prime Minister is?

As far as this thing being a debacle for the idea of 'spreading democracy'...why? Before this, it seemed like the palestinian people wanted peace, to a degree. They certainly didn't actually bother to actually fight for their homeland. Now its apparenty that the majority of the palestinian peoples want war with Israel and to destroy it. Its more honest this way. At least now all outside nations can't dance around the idea of 'peace process', at least not one that has two sides actually working for it.


[edit on 26-1-2006 by Nygdan]

A terrorist group has been elected to be the PA government.
This terrorist group's charter demands the total destruction of Israel.
This terrorist group has stated time and again that it will not recognize the existence of the sovereign state of Israel.

Interesting times are ahead of us. The Palestinian Authority is now an official terrorist group.
Definitely a time to buy gold, if you are going to bother with earthly possessions.

I agree, this can only mean bad news, and rough times ahead.

Originally posted by jtma508
They very well could be sorry they ever got elected.

I think the Palestinians will be sorry about who they elected.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I don't understand what this election and majority win for Hamas actually means. Hamas, the organization, is at war with Israel. Does this mean that Palestine, not just de facto but de juris, is at war with Israel? Does this mean that he yehudis can, and indeed if war is their status then they're obliged to, send their Army in to destroy the government and really occupy the country?

Also, Israel used to attack Hamas with impunity, they'd target and kill Hamas members and leadership. Is that political assasination now? Can they target and kill whoever the new Prime Minister is?

It looks like there are lots of implications. For example, the way Hamas terrorists are classified in the WOT. Will the fall under the Geneva Accords?

hamas is just a bunch of freedom fighters. good for them in winning the election.

Hamas is as much known among the Palestinians for their long standing (not recent or a public relations ploy by any means) social work as their opposition to Isreal. They have consistantantly providied the social services, roads, schools, hospitals and the like that the Palestinian Authority (PA) was too corrupt to provide. That is why they won. Now the morons in the Bush administration will refuse to deal with them because of said opposition but this election would have never been lost in the first place if the PA had been required and pressured into doing for people instead of pocketing all that money. As for Hamas opposition to Isreal...to all you blind supporters of it...Let me ask what would you be doing if a people had invaded the east coast of America, carved a seperate nation out of it, forced the original population out of their homes and into refugee camps, refusing to even accknowledge them for decades, treating the remmants of the original inhabitants like 2nd class citizens and holding the new state by force? And don't even try to use the Biblical claim of right to the land (the original Isrealis did the same thing to the original inhabitants back then too, talk about repeat offenders) or even a historical one, that was 2,000 years ago. You would be fighting mad and waging a gurrilla war thats what you would be doing so stop calling them terrorists. The whole situition is stupid and made stupider by tying religious convictions and claims to it.

[edit on 26-1-2006 by grover]

No, Grover, the whole thing was made stupid by making the demands that Israel be destroyed. It was made stupid by blowing up women and children, husbands and sons. It was made ignorant as Hell when special teams have to pick the remains of loved ones out of sidewalks and store walls so that they might be properly buried.

Let us put things in proper perspective, and let us also put the religious ideology in the proper light. Let us look at who teaches utter hatred in their schools, look at who glorifies the use of explosive belts to kill innocent people and sending one's young self to paradise and virgins.

And the House of Jacob shall be a fire, and the House of Joseph a flame....

and this would not be so if palestine had not been invaded, and its people forced out into refugee camps and denied any recourse...remember the Isrealis did the terrible stuff too...they are not innocent victims of terrorism and no amount of spin will change that history. No the stupidity is the insisting that after 2000 years the Palastinians have no right to the land or that only the Isrealis do.

The palastinians had the choice, in their voting, either life or death.

Fatah, despite its corruption and intrigue actually tried for peace, actually tried to build a palastianin state. At the same time Hamas has sought war and undermined those efforts, A vote for Hamas, is a vote for bloodshed, murder and attacks, thats their reason for existing.

Seems like the Palastinians, as in countless decisions they have made in the past, have decided on war and death to be their future.

So be it....

[edit on 26-1-2006 by Netchicken]

grover, if you go back further than 2000 years, the Hebrew (Isrealites) and Philistines(Palestinians) both came from somewhere else in the 14th century BC, and both have claim to the land. The only hope of resolving their differences is through cooperation and tolerance, which will lead to co-existence. IMHO, neither has anymore right to the land than the other.

www.palestinehistory.com...

The land belongs to Israel. If you have any questions about that, just ask God

I would like this to work out...Hamas to moderate, make a treaty, etc. But I just don't see that working out.

Welcome to the end of times!

Originally posted by Hal9000
grover, if you go back further than 2000 years, the Hebrew (Isrealites) and Philistines(Palestinians) both came from somewhere else in the 14th century BC, and both have claim to the land. The only hope of resolving their differences is through cooperation and tolerance, which will lead to co-existence. IMHO, neither has anymore right to the land than the other.

www.palestinehistory.com...

I couldn't agree more...I don't approve of the violence but desperate people do desperate things and to quote the Roman playwrite Terence "I am a man, nothing human is alien to me." There will be no peace in Palestine until there is justice for the Palestinians. America has certianly earned their hostility by blindly backing Isreal and refusing to seriously consider the injustice of it all. Both ancient claims are illrevelant (besides the Palestianians are decendants of Beduin tribemen who settled the area, not Philistines) what is important are the flesh and blood claims that exist now. Be it truth or myth is inconsiquential, no jurorist worth their salt would pass judgement a such claim based on the Bible. They would rightfully ask instead what are the facts of the claim now? And the fact are, no matter the dogmatism used to justify them, that the Jews were given Palestine by Lord Balfour and the English (remember the Balfour declaration?) without regard to the people that had been living there and dispite the UN mandated lines of demarcation, the Isrealis seized even more land and evicted, often brutally its residents creating massive refugee camps that still exist to this day. The other nations in the area rightfully considered this an invasion and struck back and so on and so forth. So it continues, the Palestinians refuse to resettle in other lands demanding theirs back instead. Dispite the likelyhood of this happening...would any of you act different if you were in their place? I doubt it. I do not support the violence but at least I am smart enough to understand its roots, and compassionate enough to understand the angst behind it. In the long run Isreal is doomed, Judgement day or not, in 50 years the Palestinians will outbreed the Isrealis into illrevalance and the area will become a mixed state.