POLITICS: Palestinian PM Steps Down- Gives Job to Hamas

Yo, I love the way you assume I put words in your mouth, even though your statement is just as I have heard it a thousand times.

You want to call me an idiot, moron? Aim it toward my obvious inability to knuckle-pound the keyboard without making 50 bajillion typos per line! Did you see the utter crap you quoted? I didn't realize how pathetic it was until I read your quoting. I am truly sorry for not doing any better than that. Please, do not take it as me thinking you aren't worth the respect of typing better, just take it as me being an idiot who is a lousy typist and too inattentive to proof-read as he should. I'll do better next time.

Want to take a guess why I just edited this post?

[edit on 28-1-2006 by Thomas Crowne]

Just as interesting as the same old lines I here all ovger the placy; I am not against the Jews, I just want to see Israel and it's none-Arabic citizens destryed, pushed into the sea.

Such an extreme dichotomy that allows no middle ground is wrong no matter the side one takes.

Between driving the Jews into the sea, and driving the Palestinians across the Jordan there are many other alternatives.

The one you refuse to consider shows your own racism loud and clear.

Why not make Israel into a true democracy by creating a constitution, and giving equal rights to all in all things?

YOU want a racist Jewish Sumpremecist nation and you accuse others of hate.

How poor.

I support Israel behind the green line in compliance with all international laws.

I support Equal rights for all the people in the area.

And, you refuse to see from what direction the hatred comes. You try and feign love, claim I hate and am racist, while your "team" has the vast majority but wants the rest, as well. They are allowed the numerous nations and thousands of square miles of land, but the rightful owners or Israel are afforded nothing in your view. The British mandate is not argued when it comes to the rest of the region, jsut in the paultry few acres afforded the Jews.
Speaking of British, you claim that were it not for the British, there would be a Palestine as the Arabs now claim it as theirs. Let me say this again, and do it by itself so that maybe you will see it this time. Palestine in the words of the Arabs:

We see what they6 said in 1919 at the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations by looking at this resolution:
“We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We care connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.”
I suppose this might even fall in line with what Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi told the Peel Commission: “There is no such country as Palestine! ‘Palestine’ is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for century’s part of Syria.”
This could be dragged out some more, but the point has been made; there is no “Palestine” to the Arabs. As a matter of fact, the term “Palestinian” was more specific to the Jew, and the Arab found it a little irritating to be called by that name back before it was politically convenient.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
By the way, I have read the same stuff you have, the problem is, none of it stacks up against the documented evidence. Would their be any possible lying going on? Is there any evidence that this could be, besides the scriptural evidence from the Arab's own religious documentation? Maybe we could discuss Deir Yassin, for example? My back is still in knots from hunching over this infernal keyboard last night; if anyone is interested in Deir Yassin (I believe the spelling is correct. If not, I'll bet nickels to donuts that Google will correct it!) give it a search.

Since you already said that the Palestinians did not leave in fear of their lives lets have a look at

Deir Yassin Remembered

Early in the morning of Friday, April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun, headed by Menachem Begin, and the Stern Gang attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. It was several weeks before the end of the British Mandate. The village lay outside of the area that the United Nations recommended be included in a future Jewish State. Deir Yassin had a peaceful reputation and was even said by a Jewish newspaper to have driven out some Arab militants. But it was located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and one plan, kept secret until years afterwards, called for it to be destroyed and the residents evacuated to make way for a small airfield that would supply the beleaguered Jewish residents of Jerusalem.
....
A final body count of 254 was reported by The New York Times on April 13, a day after they were finally buried
....
Ben Gurion even sent an apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But this horrific act served the future State of Israel well. According to Begin:

Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of "Irgun butchery," were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.
......
Of about 144 houses, 10 were dynamited. The cemetery was later bulldozed and, like hundreds of other Palestinian villages to follow, Deir Yassin was wiped off the map.

How can you honestly say the Arab Palestinians did not flee in fear of their lives in 1948?

The fact that Israel refused to allow them to return, but allows any Jew in the world to immigrate shows their racist goals.

It also shows the main motive for the Arab hatred of Israel: their racism.

You ignore it, and you must otherwise all of your propaganda falls apart.

[edit on 28-1-2006 by ArchAngel]

Hey, how about this?

Hamas Funded by Isreal



“Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.”

Israel wanted to radicalize the dispute by moulding Hamas into a fundamentalist militant crusade to ape the Khomeini revolution in Iran. So much so that Israel groomed potential Hamas leaders, pressuring Israeli authorities to give them licenses to set up food kitchens, clinics, schools, and day-care centers, to create a governing structure alternative to Arafat's Fatah. These were known as ‘Village Leagues’ - and provided future Hamas operatives with a political and governmental foothold. This began in 1978 when Prime Minister Menachem Begin, himself a former terrorist leader, approved an application from Sheik Ahmad Yassin to license the Islamic Association, which would later produce a military wing, Hamas, in 1987. The Israeli Likud party propped up Yassin because they both had the same agenda, to destabilize Arafat’s Fatah.

Hey, that sure is Interesting hmmm?

Put a Puppet on a String.

Israel to kill on U.S., allies'' soil

“Israel is embarking upon a more aggressive approach to the war on terror that will include staging targeted killings in the United States and other friendly countries, former Israeli intelligence officials told United Press International. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has forbidden the practice until now, these sources said, speaking on condition of anonymity.”

So - what does that Mean actually?

If Hamas won the Election, that basicly means that ISREAL won the Palestinian Elections.

Makes you think - who BENEFITS with every Hamas Terrorist Attack?

Palestnian People?

Isreal?

[edit on 28/1/06 by Souljah]

Originally posted by ArchAngel
The history from the end of WWI to 1948.

There are a lot of years in that span.
What was the land called in that time period?
The Answer is PALESTINE.

Yeah and a millenia before that it was called " ISRAEL " so you point being ??
Just because the Ottaman empire could desimate the Jewish popualtion by effectively re-locating them and finally expelling them to Central Asia and Europe that gives them the legitemacy to lay claim to what has been through out the ages the Jewsih heart land ??
I dont see your logic. You expond facts from WW1 to 1948 as if that were the sole criteria for legitemacy when in fact you forget that a Jewish state was promised to the Jews which rightfully beyond all reasonable doubt is Jewish.

Before the end of WWI the Jewish population of the land to later be named Palestine was a little more than 10%.
Jews were a small minority.
The British allowed massive Jewish immigration, especially after WWII.

WRONG !!
The British promised a jewsih state way before WW2 and immigration was on much before WW2 started. The initial rush was limited due to the skepticism as can be expected of any people who are suddenly relocate to their ancient home after nearly a millenia away. When the initial settlers set up and the land more acceptable to the Jews more came. When WW2 started it was the last minute people who wanted to escape the Nazi's who arrived. These were generally people who came with little or no possession to a strange land under the hope of British protection and a promise delivered to the Jewish people.

If it was not called Palestine in this period what was it called?
Was the land was ever a Jewish majority, or Jewish controled in the last thousand years?

So what is you point ?
If you leave your house unlocked and some vagabound/bum makes himself home and refuses to accept your legitemacy to the house whom do you blame ? Sure you left it unlocked but the vagabound/bum should atleast be ashamed of his cheap deception shouldnt he ? Before you call in the police and kick out the bum you are justified in making an attempt to try to take it back yourself.

The Jews didn’t leave of their own volition; they were effectively ejected by the Ottoman Empire and re-located with Arabs. Now with the Arabs breeding recklessly and spreading in the region is of no consequence to the Jews whom the land belongs to. Moreover the 1000 odd years you mention of control was through war and the Arabs took that land from the Jews by force. Similarly later the Jews took it back again by force yet still let the "bum” stay. This in itself is a sign of graciousness that has been reciprocated only with death and misery to innocent Jews who have nothing to do with Palestinians or Jewish political affairs. This not only shows the depravity of the people but also the pitiful vanity that they exhibit with growing exuberance.

The Jews didn’t leave of their own volition; they were effectively ejected by the Ottoman Empire and re-located with Arabs. Now with the Arabs breeding recklessly and spreading in the region is of no consequence to the Jews whom the land belongs to. Moreover the 1000 odd years you mention of control was through war and the Arabs took that land from the Jews by force. Similarly later the Jews took it back again by force yet still let the "bum” stay. This in itself is a sign of graciousness that has been reciprocated only with death and misery to innocent Jews who have nothing to do with Palestinians or Jewish political affairs. This not only shows the depravity of the people but also the pitiful vanity that they exhibit with growing exuberance.

Your understanding of the history is poor at best.

The Ottoman empire existed from 1453 to 1922.

The ROMAN EMPIRE destroyed Israel almost 2000 years ago in 70AD and is well documented.

After the Roman Empire it was the assyrians, and later Persians that assimilated the land.

From the year 636 until the end of WWI the land of Palestine/Israel was under Islamic control.

www.friesian.com...

And it was the british that took it by force, not 'Israel'.

Israel did not exist until 1948.

I dont see your logic. You expond facts from WW1 to 1948 as if that were the sole criteria for legitemacy when in fact you forget that a Jewish state was promised to the Jews which rightfully beyond all reasonable doubt is Jewish.

No, I was debunking Palestine Denialism.

It is a disease where people deny that anthing happened in the holy land from the end of WWI until 1948 where Israel suddenly sprung up out of the sea with Jews already living on it.

There was a nation called Palestine, Sovereign or not.

[edit on 28-1-2006 by ArchAngel]

I am posting most of this World Tribune article from Feb 16 2001 because I think it contains information which is very relevant today, and should have been wondered about when the attacks occurred on 9/11.

Mohtashemi-Pur was one of two Iranian diplomats to attend Arafat's funeral procession.

www.worldtribune.com...

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Friday, February 16, 2001
WASHINGTON — The United States has confirmed that leading terrorist groups met recently in Beirut. Diplomatic sources say Iran will host a followup meeting in April.

U.S. officials said the meeting took place around Jan. 24 in Beirut and included leading terrorist agents — such as the Hizbullah — sponsored by Iran.

At the meeting, the terrorist groups and Iranian officials discussed cooperation in the launching of attacks against Israeli and U.S. targets, the officials said.

[edit on 28-1-2006 by Thomas Crowne]

(1) I don't give a darned about your spelling TC, I care about your putting words in my mouth.

(2) Archangel Assyria and Persia pre-dated the Romans, they did not follow them. Other than that your postings have been excellent.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
Your understanding of the history is poor at best.
The Ottoman empire existed from 1453 to 1922.
The ROMAN EMPIRE destroyed Israel almost 2000 years ago in 70AD and is well documented.........................
And it was the british that took it by force, not 'Israel'.

Obviously your "internet" history reflects your naiveity!

Firstly, the Romans replaced the Seleucids and this incited the Jews causign frequent exchanges between the two. Finally the romans won and then Herod was made the ruler of the Jews and was granted autonimity this led to concern form the romans and thus after his death the Romans came directly to Judea (not Israel that time !! ) their was a revolt and then the whole battle of Jeruselem took place, followed few years later by the 'plowed up with a yoke of oxen' routine etc. Thought thousands were killed and many more enslaved the Jewish people did survive the encounter with the Roamans and Jeruselem. It was the Romans who called the Land as Palaestinia which is basically a small region was mostly just Gaza and the coastal plains. You dont think that the hundreds of thousands that lived there were simply destroyed do you? Their are numerous synagogues to prove that the Jews were infact well preserved during the Roman period and well past the Assyrians. Also many Jewish sciptures and also the temple at cyprus . This period is also when Jehuda the Price
It was the Assyrians who first tried the whole " re-location " programe though not as sucessfully as the Ottamans.
And I was not talking of the English who took but the people who took it from the English while the Arabs tried to kill them at the same time.

Then, grover, I retract my apology as it is not necessary. You really do think I am an idiot, don't you? You come to the brink of saying something, knowing what it means, just like any other code phrase or term, and then play offended? Really. Go play with yourself because I don't feel like playing.

As far as who was where and when, why not go all the way back ten thousand years, when people related to the Neanderthals of Europe roamed the region (speculatively; Christians, don't throw rocks at me, that is the job of the "Palestinians" LOL!) The Jewish tribe, the Israelites, were among the seminomadic pastorials who were in the region. Historically, if one wants to get picky, the Israelites were the first to lay claim to the land, kicking the Caananites off it and claiming it as their God-Promised own.

Yes, I am aware that all of my postings, save for my lousy typing, have been excellent. No need in accolades, grover.

The idea that they have a right to it, due to them living there long ago is a joke...

People lived in Israel, before the Jewish people did in fact, they probably lived their before the Jewish Religion even existed.

Should we go about giving back every bit of land claimed? North and South America? Parts of Europe, Russia, China, Australia? Or do we only do this for Jewish people?

Why only one group and not them all? Isn't that a bit unfair?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Then, grover, I retract my apology as it is not necessary. You really do think I am an idiot, don't you? You come to the brink of saying something, knowing what it means, just like any other code phrase or term, and then play offended? Really. Go play with yourself because I don't feel like playing.

GOD!!! You remind me of the woman I've been dating, she's always looking for meanings in what I say that aren't there also. Sure your name isn't Shelia?

I apologise if I posted too long a snip from an article, but the edited portion contained some of the most important information.

Mothashemi-Pur organized a conference on terrorism, several nations were in attendance. He's the major founding force of Hezbollah/Hizbullah.

Plenty can be found about his role behind Palestinian Resistence.

He was one of two Iranian envoys to attend Arafat's funeral procession.

His man, Imad Mugniyeh killed 241 Marines in Beirut.

Anyone worried?

I am holding numerous 9/11 prior warning letters from a man who, although in prison, informed me of details of this conference several years ago. I'm sure he'll be shocked when he receives a copy of the above linked article which I just sent him, we've been looking for information on this meeting for years.

If a man in jail had sources inside this meeting, how could the US not have know what was coming? If I were a betting woman, I'd say they wanted a war, let the attacks happen, and probably made efforts to "pad" the attacks to make the trauma as effective as they could.

Arthur Lord balfour said this:

"So far as Palestine is concerned, the powers have made no statement of fact that is admittedly wrong, and no declaration of policy which, at least in the letter, they have not always intended to violate."

AND: From his "Memorandum Respecting Syria, Palestine and Mesopotamia":

"For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country, though the American Commission has been going through the form of asking what they are. The Four Great Powers are committed to Zionism, and Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long traditions, in present needs, in future hopes of far profounder import than the desires and prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land."

In short the Palestinians never had a chance, the deck was stacked against them by the very people dealing the hand...is it any wonder they feel they got a raw deal?

Originally posted by ArchAngel
No, I was debunking Palestine Denialism.

It is a disease where people deny that anthing happened in the holy land from the end of WWI until 1948 where Israel suddenly sprung up out of the sea with Jews already living on it.

There was a nation called Palestine, Sovereign or not.

The land of Palaestine was there during the Roman period, it was named then as Palaestinia which comprised of parts of Judea and not Isreal .
The Muslims have no connection to the word Palaestine it is merely the name that was adopted for historical reasons by the latter forces to define the region. That would be the British. The Arabs merly kept that name going and now somehow claim that to be their title when in fact it is roman-jewish.
Also the Koran doesnt speak of any land called Palaestine but catagorically talks of David and the Jews who lived at the region.
That Arabs have no claim to at all other than the fact that they had settled on that area for a few generations prior to the return of the Jewish people. It wasnt the Jews who started massacring civilians during the 1947 pre-war riots, it wasnt the jews who called upon their brethren to "drench their land with Jewish blood "

On April 26, 1948, Transjordan's King Abdullah said:

[A]ll our efforts to find a peaceful solution to the Palestine problem have failed. The only way left for us is war. I will have the pleasure and honor to save Palestine.6

Now that the Palaestinians have been beaten inspite of their deception and underhandedness they refuse to accept the reality of the situation. They have lost all claim to Israel and they never will be able to get it back again. Rather than extend their suffering it would be wise to follow their "leaders" and build mansions across the middle-east and send their kids to school in Euorpe.
voting HAMAS to power is like hammering a nail into the coffin of the Palaestinian dream which has well and truly come to an end.

As my post of statements of Arthur Lord Balfour (of the Balfour Declaration) from the late teens and early twenties...THE AREA WAS GENERALLY KNOWN AS PALESTINE!!! Jesus...what part of that don't you understand? ...the Arabs aka Palestinians (known as such because they lived in Palestine) had lived in the area some 1200 years, who the hell do you think the Crusaders fought? The whole area was ripe with nationalism (Thats what happens when empires fall (the Ottoman in this case) the nationalistic impluse, supressed by the empire rises to the surface and there were alot of Palestinian nationalists (not Jews, Arabs) who wanted a country of their own. I SWEAR TO GODDESS...dim as dirt.

Originally posted by Yetichi
hamas is just a bunch of freedom fighters. good for them
in winning the election.

Yeah right. 'Freedom fighters' from the Rotary Club, the Lion's
Club and other sabatoge groups. Yep. Really. That's
what the Hamas Oath says. That .. and that ANY peace talks
are a waste of time and not to be entered into ... read up ...
this is part of their oath ...

The Hamas "Martyr's Oath"
( www.newsmax.com... )

"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious...The
Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and
more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is
vanquished and Allah's victory is realized...

"The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: 'The Day
of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews. When the
Jew will hide behind stones and trees, the stones and trees will say O
Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him...'

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time
and vain endeavors.

"The day The Palestinian Liberation Organization adopts Islam as its way
of life, we will become its soldiers, and fuel for its fire that will burn the
enemies...

"The Zionist invasion is a vicious invasion... It relies greatly in its infiltration
and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such
as the Freemasons, The Rotary and Lions clubs, and other sabotage
groups. "

"Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Muslim people. 'May the
cowards never sleep.'"



[edit on 1/29/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by grover
As my post of statements of Arthur Lord Balfour (of the Balfour Declaration) from the late teens and early twenties...THE AREA WAS GENERALLY KNOWN AS PALESTINE!!! Jesus...what part of that don't you understand? ...the Arabs aka Palestinians (known as such because they lived in Palestine) had lived in the area some 1200 years, who the hell do you think the Crusaders fought? The whole area was ripe with nationalism (Thats what happens when empires fall (the Ottoman in this case) the nationalistic impluse, supressed by the empire rises to the surface and there were alot of Palestinian nationalists (not Jews, Arabs) who wanted a country of their own. I SWEAR TO GODDESS...dim as dirt.

Obviously your raging anti-semetism clouds your rationality otherwise you would not insist on this point despite all the evidence presented by many posters on this thread.
Their is no word in the Koran called " Palestine " go and check it up. I have it here beside me. Also the Muslim bedoiuns in that land hated the term "Palaestine" because it signified the Jewsih-Chrisitan heritage of the land and this was repugnant to them. They have NEVER identified themselves as Palaestinians. They always claim themselves to be either Syrian or from the Islamic empires. It was the British, who due to their lack of understanding carved out a land in the middle east called Palaestine which the arabs resented strongly. No prominent Muslim voices endorsed the delineation of Palestine in 1920; all protested it. They directed their allegeince to Damascus and thus calling themselves as Southern Syrians. But the French destroued the Syrian kingdom and thus these "southeners" were left in the dark. They then manuvered around to calling themselves as Palaestinians- who they claimed were the original inhabitants of the land. The British blindly accepted them as so and THAT is how they got their name.
Not by staying there of millenia and having some magical civilization that called itself Palestine. During the Crusades the Jews were very much present in Israel, how do you think the Jewish massacre by the Crusaders in Israel happened if their werent any jews at that time ??
Also Saladin after he defeated the crusaders allowed the Jews to re-enter Jeruselem. Also to the end of the 11th century many Jews from France and England came back to the holy land as the 3rd crusade was about to start.

No matter what insults your anti-Semetism may spew forth it cannot change the facts of the matter. It would be best if you accept history as it is rather than draw upon your hatred to reason for you.