Born sinful.

What do you call the nature of man?

According to the bible we are all born sinful, it's a consequence of "the Original sin".

That became our nature, but it is not good!

- Do you follow until now?

Can anyone tell we what it is we have to become ? What is the good/right nature of man?
Are we able to transform from this? How is this done?
Please quote from the bible to prove your point.

What does sinful actually mean? Does it mean rebellious towards God? Unloyal towards God?

Where's the line between rebellious and unloyal?

This inner voice is saying: please wake me up!

Can another person make someone lose their sinful nature? One could make one comprehend, but can he change him?

Is LORD Jesus the only way to the Father?

I just feel like I've got not much to do here, in this world, though if I don't do much, I don't feel alright, so I just fill my days with work. It seems the best we can do! There seems to be not much to life, nothing gives meaning to it! Yet, it seems to be good to be not sinful, and bad to be sinful. Yet what you gain by being not sinful is what you lose by being sinful. Not only do you not get the good stuff by being sinful, you even become sentenced/punished for it.

Let's make people aware about the nature of man.

I don't know how people who lost their sinful nature cannot care about this issue.

Although I don't feel bad, I feel quite lost. I don't feel sinful, but I don't feel otherwise either! Really, sometimes I wonder who or what I am. I'm probably denying the cause of my karma. I don't really know. Something amazed me and I remained amazed. I need to find out what.

I am amazed, and insulted and whatever I can be along the way. Maybe there do exist mentally ill people unaware of what they say. Is it oppression? Is it just bullying? My heart seems to be in a knot, or my heart exists out of many.

What is my purpose?

Although there is nothing to life, people go around telling everyone they have a purpose? I guess looking back you might find you had purposes, but looking forward, I don't have a purpose. I just see what happens! Sometimes I get an idea to go for a walk, just because "I feel like it", I don't know why, probably because God wants me to! I never have a problem doing what God asks!

In life, you can never do wrong if you do what God asks of you! It comes to the fact God knows best. He doesn't seem to cause me any harm!

Whatever, any info on our sinful nature is welcome, please quote form the Bible!

My reply will be short and concise.
We are born with the original sin, right? and then we are baptized to remove it. Then what did Jesus do? What sin did he come to save us from? People were baptized before Jesus. Isn't at this point where you have a clean slate in order to make whatever you want (free will) for good or for evil? Don't ask yourself if you are born sinful, because if you've been baptized then that's supposed to be gone, ask yourself if you live a sinful life.

I think it's just a terrible negative affirmation. I am not 'destined' to be sinful. Even if I was, it's not MY FAULT. Unfortunately I spent many years pounding this horrible affirmation into my head. Until one day I realized something.


Loving God.
Loves us, his 'children' unconditionally.
Burns pretty much everyone in screaming agony for eternity.
Evil God.
Not real.

Seriously? Should I worship god because it's the right thing to do, or because I'm afraid he will torture me forever?

How could I be happy in heaven knowing that billions of people are screaming, being eaten alive in fire, and god put them there?

It's not right, it's not real.

We are not born sinners. Anyone could be perfect with enough effort. I keep trying every day.

reply to post by oktopus

Can anyone tell we what it is we have to become ? What is the good/right nature of man?
Are we able to transform from this? How is this done?

We are already that which we are to become. Thy will is already done. As Jesus said, "It's finished".

What we are experiencing is time. Time is outside of the creator. We have a gift in the present which is time itself.

Its a transformation of experiencing that which we already are.

The Bible is a mixture of stories throughout time ( His-Story = Our-Story). We can see where we have collectively been in thought (time) and as we grow in harmony we see our collective thoughts change. In time nothing stays the same, thus time is an illusion to that which is already done.

This above can be found in the Bible.. no quotes needed. ;-)

reply to post by oktopus

What does sinful actually mean? Does it mean rebellious towards God? Unloyal towards God?

"Sinful" is the natural human state in the natural world, where we live and then we die.
Romans 6:23a
For the wages of sin is death, . . .
(2011 NIV)

Although I don't feel bad, I feel quite lost. I don't feel sinful, but I don't feel otherwise either! Really, sometimes I wonder who or what I am.

We aren't totally free of this until the resurrection, when we cease to be affected by the way the world was that we lived in previously.

The way I see it-when our ancestors worshipped the Earth and all its animals we were not sinful,but in balance with mother nature-think of the native tribes of many countries-they all held a deeply spiritual reverence for nature,and they were in balance with it.
They took,yet they gave back in equal measure.
I see no sin in that.

Modern man however is about as far away from those people as you can get-we pillage nature with no regard for the consequences of our actions.
We take more than we give back.
We have,as a society,turned our backs on the deep understanding of the balance of nature.
That in my view,is our sin.

The whole thing of modern religions asking us to repent our sins to be forgiven for them actually acts as a way for deplorable people to do horrible things-just as long as they say sorry after,all is forgiven...
This allows nasty people to at least think they can get away with dispicable deeds,so long as they repent after.

Anyway,don't listen to me-I was born 10 000 years later than should have been I think.

We are not born sinful, the world set up around us promotes sin as normal and natural, so we follow suit. If you believe you are sinful then of course you're going to sin, it's cause and effect.

Can you honestly tell me that a newborn baby has sin in him when all he has done is be brought into the world? Look into a babies eyes and tell me it is sinful. If you think so then you are a liar in my opinion.

I think we are born without sin and we are conditioned by our own kind to sin. We are not born greedy. We are not born spoiled. We are taught to kill others by our societies. To kill the food we need to survive is not a sin, but we should respect the life we take to nourish us. We should thank god for supplying us with what we need to survive...whatever god is. Is this much different than the bible tries to teach us?

reply to post by DeadGhost


I believe affirmations as you refer to them are something to keep your head above "the water" while in fact the right thing to do is to drown in it.

reply to post by MamaJ


You are wrong the right way.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I see what you are dealing with here. Denying people reap what they sow won't make it happen any less.

"Original sin" is the only sin. Whomever posited it as truth committed an insidious crime against nature.

Words
"Original sin" is the only sin. Whomever posited it as truth committed an insidious crime against nature.

The whole concept bothers me-Its almost like the way North Korea locks up generations of a family,for the so called crimes of one family member.
Similar to the way we are told to believe we must pay for the crimes of our forefathers for every generation into the future,if we are to believe in the concept of original sin.

Long before all that was even thought about were people who lived in balance with the Earth and all its creatures,a kind of Eden if you like.
They were not sinners on this Earth.
Yet they were deemed to be less than human by those who followed,and inevitably slaughtered out the old ways for their "correct" concepts..
How wrong they were.
And now we live in very precarious times as a result.

Maybe its not the only the modern gods with whom we should be asking for forgiveness,but the old gods and spirits who provided us with a paradise we have disrespected to the great detriment of our own species,and all others-not to mention the horrors we have stored up for our future generations by our actions.

Something went so wrong somewhere.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

We are not born sinful, the world set up around us promotes sin as normal and natural, so we follow suit.

Do you think that is just a facade, and if you dug deep into the world you would find out that it is all nice and warm and fuzzy?

reply to post by oktopus


I truly understand your confusion with concepts like "salvation" and "original sin." These concepts were created by the modern version of Christianity (though modern means over a thousand years ago). They have some truths in them, but are merely remnants of a forgotten spiritual path. So I would advise you to dig deeper. It is good to ask yourself these questions. But you should redirect them to God. Ask and the answer shall be given unto you. Your God aspect will answer you in every case as long as your heart is in the right place. That is the key--to look into your heart. There you will find all answers.

But I will not leave you in a confused state and just send you somewhere else. I will give you some answers. The "original sin" concept really dates back to Adam and Eve. They didn't call it that back then. But this is what it refers to. I put it in quotes because it was not really a sin, for there is no such thing as sin in the eyes of God. The concept of sin was created by man-made doctrines and by the ones who want us to believe that we are "sinful." What I mean by "the ones" are elitist folks who are the secret rulers of this planet. The ones whom you don't see in everyday big budget media. Anyways, let's get back to Adam and Eve. Remember the classic story where Eve ate the Fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and then gave it to Adam as well? Well, it was an act of "disloyalty" to the "God" who walked in the Garden of Eden. I say, "disloyalty," because Adam and Eve decided to not listen to this "God." They were not 100% rebellious. There is the difference. Disloyalty means they are not being loyal by "disobeying" to certain things but still listened to other things. Rebellion means outright disagreement and actions taken to go against a person or group.

Now, I put "God" in the Garden of Eve in quotes is because it was not the ultimate Creator as the Churches teach. It was a higher being I give it that, but not "God" as people would assume. So, Adam and Eve created what people call "original sin" because it was one of the first act ever in human history to not listen to "God." I say one of the first, because it wasn't the first act. Other things happened simultaneously. But that is beyond the point of this post.

So now you understand where this "original sin" came from. But I mentioned earlier that, according to God, sin is not a factor in His mind. Why do I say that? I have said this time and again in other threads that God does not think like we do. We are here in one of the most dense worlds, the 3rd dimension. So our minds have been "tampered" by the Collective Mind of Man, teaching us that there is a God in space somewhere judging and punishing us for "not listening to Him." This is simply not true. God sent us here so that we may grow Spiritually. What does that mean? Spirituality means being on the Path of Spirit. The lessons learned on Earth, either it be something small as cutting your finger to big things as designing a rocket to fly into space, will allow you to raise your consciousness to a higher level so that one day you will come back home to God. But coming back home to God is just a phrase so that you understand through linear thinking. God is already inside of you as Spirit. You were born as Spirit. You have a God Spark within your heart. This is why earlier I spoke of looking inside your heart. This is why great philosophers say the greatest treasure in the world is not very far away at all...it is within you.

Therefore, God wants you to do your best by focusing on positive actions and thoughts every single second of your life. This is an attribute of God. In order to become ONE with God (although you are already ONE with Him, this world has deceived you into a separation mentality), you must walk the Path of the Spirit. This is the purpose of all life on Earth. To go into great detail of what I have just talked about. Please read my thread.

reply to post by ctophil


Thank you for leaving the reply you wrote. I feel guided into a process of refining and becoming less apathetic. Day by day I improve taking large steps forward into becoming part of society I could call it. I can say I am being trained to.. become!

It's a beneficient transformation, Climbing out of a pit to reach the surface collecting roots to survive, gems to share, finding air to breathe. It's a good process. I Always hungered for it, now it became reality. I feel like my journey has begun.

May I soon reach the surface.

reply to post by oktopus


I'm not denying reaping what you sow, that its an obvious fact by the state of the world today. What I'm denying is that we are born sinners. We are not born that way, we are turned into sinners by the society around us. That's like saying babies are born knowing the English language instead of being taught it by those around them.

reply to post by ctophil

Well, it was an act of "disloyalty" to the "God" who walked in the Garden of Eve.

Look at who gets cursed in Genesis 3 as the fall-out.
It was the earth.
Adam and Eve are given warnings about what that involves and the consequences to them.
The way to understand this is to realize that the "bad" tree came up out of the earth on its own, and wasn't planted by YHWH.
Eve decided the fruit from it was perfectly fine.
The YHWH (sky god) religion is at odds with the Chthonic gods of the underworld.

reply to post by jmdewey60


It's not a facade when it comes to human society, it's very real, we are extremely sinful. My point is though that babies aren't born sinful, they are molded into sinners by the society we have set up around them.

Babies who are born into an Amazonian tribe are not sinful, they are brought up and taught to live in balance with nature, not destroy it for profit, so in turn they live what they are taught. Babies born in modern society are another story though. They start pure then are molded this way or that way based on the culture they are born into.

reply to post by oktopus


Father behaves like mind / awareness / concept / thinker
Holy Ghost behaves like will / spirit / production
Son behaves like body / image of concept / form / word

Reality, or our part in reality, is to be church - it is the (be)coming of church in order for church to be wed (couple) the image. Church is the principles and practice of just creation, or "just/good" concept (re)production.

Everything in reality, as we know it, works on this principle: "just/good" concept (re)production. Satan wants it to be only good and not just. Satan, does his version of good, but it is not just.

To understand something in reality, you need to study the images in order to find the concept that the image is the body of. (e.g. You read my words in this post to see / understand my awareness. You go through my images / body to see my awareness - to get to Father you must go through the Son.)

As for original sin, the concept, I think, is that unjust concepts hurt the body. That is, God is expressing that the mind, body, and spirit are one, and if you hurt the body, you hurt the mind, and will.

In terms of father and son, that you may understand, think of it like you are the image of your forefathers concepts. Their actions, which were driven by their concepts, molded your body into the image it is. All of life is this way - evolution - or the (be)coming of church.

Why church, though? Because the son / images love just creation and the creator loves the son / images - they do not want unjust things because it hurts the mind, body, and spirit.

Everyday life awakes to create its versions of good -- it enacts "good" concept (re)production. They are (be)coming church - becoming "just/good" concept reproducers.

This is our reality.

Ephesians 5:28-32

King James Version (KJV)

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

I am still very much learning the great mystery of Christ and church (our reality) so all of the above should be taken with salt.