Is Atheism really rational?

Atheists contend that their belief, that is the belief that there is not a God, is highly more rational than that of the Christians, Muslims, and every other religion. Atheists contend that religious beliefs are nothing more than fairy tales and myths.

Yet, non-theists only account for 14% of the world population. Of that figure a significantly smaller amount are actually atheists, the remainder simple do not profess to any one religion.

So how can a belief held by so few people actually be proclaimed as the rational form of thought? Is the world truly that irrational?

Originally posted by BlackJackal
So how can a belief held by so few people actually be proclaimed as the rational form of thought? Is the world truly that irrational?

Oh man! You might want to retract that statement in a place where we (the conspiracy fanatics, alien abducties, bigfoot chasers, etc) are the minority of society.

Maybe not beliveing in a god could be put down to people using their common sense. There is no evidence of any god existing or ever existing. I think relying on a god to explain things that go on around you is a faliure to except the reality of life. Humans are just another animal, just a peice of flesh and blood, just bags of water. Humans seem to feel the need to feel superior to other life forms and species of animal, that is our biggest flaw.

Our existance is an accident, nothing more, nothing less.

Well you could also argue the side of the Athiests...is believing in an invisible entity that created us just so we can worship him/her/it rational?

Some could say that "God" must suffer from a low self-esteem.

Having faith is tougher than it seems especially if one possesses a rational mind.

You are also making the assumption that most people on this earth are intelligent beings capable of having objective thought. I'd say most are capable, but the majority don't utilize or exhibit it.

BTW, I'm not an athiest

Originally posted by Jonna


Oh man! You might want to retract that statement in a place where we (the conspiracy fanatics, alien abducties, bigfoot chasers, etc) are the minority of society.

You know your right. But it's just a question to tickle a few minds.

Originally posted by Kriz_4
Maybe not beliveing in a god could be put down to people using their common sense. There is no evidence of any god existing or ever existing. I think relying on a god to explain things that go on around you is a faliure to except the reality of life. Humans are just another animal, just a peice of flesh and blood, just bags of water. Humans seem to feel the need to feel superior to other life forms and species of animal, that is our biggest flaw.

Our existance is an accident, nothing more, nothing less.

*BlackJackal puts on Devils advocate uniform*

Can you prove that we are just an accident? Can you prove that there is no God? Remember absence of solid proof does not neccesarily falsify an allegation, as we see in circumstantial evidence in many court trials everyday.

[edit on 23-11-2004 by BlackJackal]

Originally posted by Lecky
Well you could also argue the side of the Athiests...is believing in an invisible entity that created us just so we can worship him/her/it rational?

Some could say that "God" must suffer from a low self-esteem.

Having faith is tougher than it seems especially if one possesses a rational mind.

You are also making the assumption that most people on this earth are intelligent beings capable of having objective thought. I'd say most are capable, but the majority don't utilize or exhibit it.

BTW, I'm not an athiest

So only 14% of the people on the planet are intelligent? Stephen Hawking is usually referred to as the smartest man on the planet and he is a theist. Since he believes in a creator does that make him unintelligent?

My main question here is non-beleif is billed as the rational course yet only a very small portion of the population subscribe to it so is it really all that rational? How can it be explained that 90% of the population subscribe to one form of religion or another?

Originally posted by BlackJackal
absence of solid proof does not neccesarily falsify an allegation,

Nor does it prove that something is absent......or something like that.

All things exist as a possibility, but that does not mean that they actually exist as a vaild probability.

Originally posted by Jonna
Nor does it prove that something is absent...

...or something like that.

All things exist as a possibility, but that does not mean that they actually exist as a vaild probability.

Yet, the majority of people in the world subscribe to a belief in a God. Doesn't that help to validate the possibility? Or is it mass hysteria or some other phenomona?

Perhaps a better question would be Is religion rational? Or even better: Is faith in something intangible rational?

The mass population of the world are not only Theists, but belong to a particular religious group.

If you want to go by numbers alone then you could also claim that Christianity is the true "right" religion. Merely because more people follow Christianity than Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism...etc.

Why stop there, if you subdivide Christianity, the largest group of Christians are Roman Catholics...they must be on to something then...

If that's what convinces you to follow a particular faith than that's fine

But applying that type of thinking to all matters will get you in trouble, how about thinking for yourself instead of following the masses?


[edit on 11/23/2004 by Lecky]

Originally posted by BlackJackal

*BlackJackal puts on Devils advocate uniform*

Can you prove that we are just an accident? Can you prove that there is no God? Remember absence of solid proof does not neccesarily falsify an allegation, as we see in circumstantial evidence in many court trials everyday.

[edit on 23-11-2004 by BlackJackal]

Heheh , touche.

There is more scientific evidence of our coming to being than there is of a god creating us. No, I cannot prove there are no gods, but no-one can prove there is either.

Anyone can make anything up, it does not make it true and on the whole should be ignored. For instance, I could now say I am the relative of an alien called Bob who lived on Neptune. Thousands of years ago he created humans by accident in a lab. He thought it cruel to kill the lifeform so put us here on Earth. Prove me wrong. A silly example but a good point non the less.

As far as I am aware circumstantial evidence cannot be used to prosecute in a court of law, so maybe that point is irrelevant. But I understand your point.

The only reasons there are more theists then atheists, is that when religion was created, to explain what they couldn't, they were all religious because if u weren't you became an outcast or were killed. Only recently has the thought of no god come inot full efect.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
Yet, the majority of people in the world subscribe to a belief in a God. Doesn't that help to validate the possibility?

Britney Spears gets millions for her 'talent' from a great many people, but it doesn't mean that she has any talent.

Or is it mass hysteria or some other phenomona?

I wouldn't call it mass hysteria because that has a negative certain connotation to it. So why do so many people subscribe to the notion? Let me ask you this as I realize you are religious. What do you get from your belief in a god and all the ideas that go along with it?

It is something positve, correct? Possibily a sense of fatherly love or universal connection or a sense of you are meant to be or a way to define yourself or an alleviation that death is not the end or any other of a billion reasons. You believe as you do because you get something you want from it. It is the same way for all of us. In a world with so much horror and fear is it not logical to want to be comforted. Religion is one way to do that which is why religions are so popular.

Originally posted by BlackJackal
Is the world truly that irrational?

Ummm.....Yah, as a matter of fact it is!!

Let me clearify that statement with a few examples:

1.) Our Money has 'In God we Trust' printed on it.

2.) We are trying to spread Feedom by the use of Force, Government & Creation of Law & Order.

3.) It costs just 'Pennies a day' to feed, shelter, educate, cure, etc. a starving child living thousands of miles away, yet it costs 1000 times that amount for each Criminal we house right here in our own backyards.

4.) We use our Latest Technology to try and cope with Overpopulation Demands, while at the same time Create Pills so Old Men can get their Little Soldier to Salute like it did 50 years earlier.

5.) After thousands of Years of Philosophy & Science the best theory of Proof of Reality is 'Relativity' and Quantum Vibration of Energy.

6.) Atoms, the building blocks of Matter, are in fact mostly Empty Space!

7.) We try and Prolong Life by Curing Illness and Avoiding Death, and yet we still continue to use War, be it War on Drugs, Terror, People, Poverty, Ignorance, etc.

8.) Our most well known and powerful Religious Institutions all hold the principles of Belief & Faith at their Core, yet continue to argue over 'Proof' of their Belief & Kill so as to remove any Doubt of their Faith.

9.) We abort our Unborn Children while Cryogenic Labs are Freezing our Dead.

I could keep going, but I won't, although it is extremely fun pointing out all of our Hypocritical Habits and Ignorant Activities. However, I think you get the idea by now so I'll leave you all to continue the list yourselves. Enjoy!!

One last thing though. Back to BlackJackal and the question of Is the world truly that irrational? I now ask you, 'Is there any Doubt that the World is Truly That Irrational?' when considering the short and incomplete list above as Evidence in Support of a Rational World??

Originally posted by BlackJackal
So only 14% of the people on the planet are intelligent? Stephen Hawking is usually referred to as the smartest man on the planet and he is a theist.

Stephen Hawkings is indeed a very intelligent man, but just because he may be referred to as the smartest man on the planet doesn't make him so. There are many intelligent athiests out there, it all depends on how you define "intelligence".

My main question here is non-beleif is billed as the rational course yet only a very small portion of the population subscribe to it so is it really all that rational? How can it be explained that 90% of the population subscribe to one form of religion or another?

I'm a theist but I will admit, that the thought of nothing happening after we perish bothers me. Could that fact have something to do with why I'm not an atheist? Could be...

Could be other reasons as well, the reason why I am a theist I cannot successfully explain and convince an Atheist. Atheists go by the physical, as well as scientific facts which is fine for them...and very rational which I might add. Who am I to say they are wrong? The truth is no one really knows for sure, I don't care how strong your particular faith may be. Until God comes down himself and sits down to do some explaining, we will continue to have athiests.

Originally posted by Jonna
Britney Spears gets millions for her 'talent' from a great many people, but it doesn't mean that she has any talent.

Ummm........Well....hmmmmmm...... I can't argue with that point. Whoever is paying that girl is truly not rational.

Humans as species have outgrown their original software platform. Through evolution, we have acquired mental capacity that is significantly larger than what's needed to survive in nature. That is partially due to the fact that the human society is a network of computers rather than a single machine, and hence its ability to learn is vastly superiour to that of its members.

So, we are left with intellectual tools far above the needs of everyday existance. Therefore, there is a sense of loss of purpose, as we are quite capable of reflecting on things like distant galaxies, wonders of biology etc etc which are far beyond the mundane existance of a man.

And so we come to the creation of a device known as God, which serves to subdue our unclaimed freedom and imagination and remove the anxiety. As such it has deeply therapeutic effects, and therefore accepted by a majority of people around the globe.

Originally posted by Jonna
I wouldn't call it mass hysteria because that has a negative certain connotation to it. So why do so many people subscribe to the notion? Let me ask you this as I realize you are religious. What do you get from your belief in a god and all the ideas that go along with it?

It is something positve, correct? Possibily a sense of fatherly love or universal connection or a sense of you are meant to be or a way to define yourself or an alleviation that death is not the end or any other of a billion reasons. You believe as you do because you get something you want from it. It is the same way for all of us. In a world with so much horror and fear is it not logical to want to be comforted. Religion is one way to do that which is why religions are so popular.

My religous beliefs are quite sticky. A year ago I was christian through and through but today I would clasify myself as still learning.

I have read every religous test I could get my hands on from the Bible to the Tao Te Ching. What I have learned is that the message in them all is basically the same making me think maybe they were all influenced by a supreme being of some sort. Yet on the other hand I do lack proof.

So for now on even days I believe in a God and on Odd days I believe in the Grand accident.

People can have rational reasons for believing in a God, just as people can have rational reasons for not believing in a God. And popularity has no merit on truth. Stephen Hawking is a theist because his environment and life experiences has led him to believe, just as the majority of scientists are atheists because their environment and life experiences lead them to unbelief.