Do the mentally ill belong in prison?

hurdygurdy
May I suggest the possibility the mentally ill are being cheated of professional care since moving from a hospital setting into a group home without consistent professional overview. To care for these individuals, whether or not they possess a criminal background is an entry level profession. You now have total noobs looking after those who require at least a doctor's care.

I think the main issue here is a high demand and a lack of support.

You simply couldn't justify having a doctor taking care of every mental patient in either of our countries, there just aren't enough.

Working for a health service which gets slammed because non-professionals run the phone line has shown me this. It used to be just nurses answering the phone, but since the call volumes increased they needed little helpers and now we run the phone line. Don't get me wrong we have nurses at hand at all times and our main job is just documentation and referral, I do not diagnose and I do not advise!

Still, maybe we should be looking closer to the source, why are there so many people with mental issues? Chemicals in the air/water/food? A high standard of beauty making people outcasts? Unresolved family issues?

reply to post by wantsome


I feel that every person in jail, serving a lengthy sentence, is likely "mentally ill" in a way or two, because no person in their right mind looks to commit crimes or hurt others, we are not programmed that way, and when one does it shows that there is an unbalance somewhere that's causing them to act in such ways..

reply to post by jhn7537


Yep, those without lawyers are mentally ill and those with legal representation are criminals. Difference is, those with mental illness rarely leave the system while criminals serve their time, then return to society. It only takes a fistful of meds every day to create a psychotic.

Say, you have a brother diagnosed with Asperger's Disease and he was interested in, say, vacuum cleaners. Might it be more humane he live in your home and he follow his passion by opening, for example, a vacuum repair business from your home which could generate not only positive well-being for your brother, but income as well. Assuming you love your brother a lot and this is not about money, assume the tax-payer income generated to keeping him fed, med and bed in a state run group home be delivered to you. We're talking a lot of money, like you could quit your day job.

iRoyalty

FirePiston
So would the video of this nut talking about spells be considered tv? Are you saying this video was staged or something? From the "tv" I just watched, she was a kook.
Firepiston

Well of course not, that was her confession, but I highly doubt she was running around everyday saying "I need to kill people because of voices in my head!".

My cousin was very quiet and secretive, he would confide in my his views on the world which were usually quite dark, but not to anyone else. When he tried killing himself and failed he covered it up at every step, it's only because he couldn't get the blood out of his bed sheets that we found out.

Maybe you shouldn't have so many offensive views about something you have never had to experience.

I guess you are right. All I can really do is speculate and that is not fair having not lived that life. I stand corrected.
Firepiston

FirePiston
I guess you are right. All I can really do is speculate and that is not fair having not lived that life. I stand corrected.
Firepiston

Thank you, I apologise for sounding annoyed, it's just something that is very personal to me. I obviously respect all views on the subject, if I didn't it would be very naive of me.

No.

I think no.

I thinks it’s one of the more stupid parts of the Prison system.

Throwing someone into prison who criminal behaviour is linked with mental health is beyond stupid and counter

1) It doesn’t sort there mental health issue. And if its linked to past trauma or some personality or depressive disorder it will just make it worse.
2) They will learn more criminal behaviour from the real hardened criminals
3) Bearing 1 & 2 On release they will likely go straight back into crime.

Counter intuitive!

Now saying that someone with mental health issue shouldn’t get a free pass.

First should be the type and degree on mental health issue.

IE did they know the difference from right and wrong at the time? If they are in psychotic episode then they probably didn’t, so punishing them would be pointless. But a secure mental hospital would be in order.

If they did know the difference between right and wrong did they have some issue with control of themselves? Some people with depressive or personality disorders can have anger management problems or issue with compulsiveness. Ok they need to have some punishment and but the emphasis should be on rehabilitation and treatment. So again I would suggest them being placed in some sort of secure facility for treatment. Sending them to a normal prison will just mean them re offending once out.


If it a drug addiction problem? Imprisoning someone for being in possession of drugs is beyond stupid. Most heavy drug users again have serious issues. Throwing them in prison is a waste of space and time.

I have known a few people with major mental health issues who have been been in and out of prison for things like petty theft, assault and drug possession. As soon as they are out of prison they are back in. As soon as they got the medical help they needed and counselling they reformed there life’s and stopped.

reply to post by crazyewok


Spot on there mate!

I am under no illusion that my cousin has a debt to society, his crime was quite nasty. However, chucking him straight in that hole he has spiralled down hill quicker in the past year and a half than he ever did at home.

If he just could have received all medical and psychological treatment in a more friendly environment, that his family could have been there for then perhaps he could serve his time with a sound mind.

iRoyalty
reply to post by crazyewok

 

Spot on there mate!

I am under no illusion that my cousin has a debt to society, his crime was quite nasty. However, chucking him straight in that hole he has spiralled down hill quicker in the past year and a half than he ever did at home.

If he just could have received all medical and psychological treatment in a more friendly environment, that his family could have been there for then perhaps he could serve his time with a sound mind.

Same here. My cousin is one of the few I mentioned who is in and out of trouble.

He has PTSD and server depression that stems from the fact his Granddad abused him. Hes is violent and a drug user. Even the police have tried to get him proper help and try their best to get him treatment (And I give them credit for not pressing charges on all the times he has attacked them). But the problem is our mental health services are overloaded and when he does end up in front of a judge there hands are tied. He has had counsiling and it did wonders. But then it got cut an he ended up slipping back.

iRoyalty

FirePiston
I guess you are right. All I can really do is speculate and that is not fair having not lived that life. I stand corrected.
Firepiston

Thank you, I apologise for sounding annoyed, it's just something that is very personal to me. I obviously respect all views on the subject, if I didn't it would be very naive of me.

But see I am still bothered by a few things. What if we all assumed our elected leaders are all mentally ill? We cannot be mad at them for trying to enslave and control us because of their illness. Does that mean we give them a pass and feel sorry for them, it isn't their fault? When does murder or any other act of greed or insubordanance become a problem?
Firepiston

reply to post by FirePiston


There needs to be some clear and defined guidelines.

Committing a murder cause your girlfriend dumped you and your depressed is not reason.

On the other hand I knew a guy who was in and out of prison for assault. Turned out (when they tested him for something unrelated) his own body was over producing huge amounts of steroids! Basically he was getting roid rage. To me that is a mental health reason! After treatment he was normal person.

Okay this is coming from 24 years of experience in prison. Now I'm not sure about other states but in Washington we have units dedicated to the mentally ill. We are fortunate in the psychologist we have in that she has started some amazing programs for the mentally ill offenders. She just won a national award for those programs. I was fortunate to be involved in some of them.

I'm now working the Visiting Room but for 8 years prior to that I worked the special housing unit which has both the mentally ill and protective custody offenders. I'm custody but doesn't matter when you work that unit you have to learn how to deal with them. We have to recognize when they are off baseline and keep track of who might be off their meds. I should also mention that for us physical force is and always should be last resort; much better for all concerned if we can talk them down. I mean really, who cares if it takes a couple of hours, they aren't going anywhere and I'm paid.

Our programs are designed to teach the offenders about their condition and the need for medication. Our programs range from handcrafts to the kitten program. Now, I will say I was a little concerned about putting kittens in this unit but it's been fantastic. I'm watching inmates who for years had never interacted with anybody interact with staff and other inmates. Truly the program is working. We also have physical fitness programs to help them with both mental and physical health. These programs range from walking to sports. It's been good to watch.

So, in answer if mentally ill are going to be put in prison then programs MUST be put in place to treat them. Other states could easily incorporate these programs. All the programs put in place have cost the taxpayer nothing.

FirePiston
But see I am still bothered by a few things. What if we all assumed our elected leaders are all mentally ill? We cannot be mad at them for trying to enslave and control us because of their illness. Does that mean we give them a pass and feel sorry for them, it isn't their fault? When does murder or any other act of greed or insubordanance become a problem?
Firepiston

I watched a wicked documentary about how it could be quite possible that many leaders my be sociopaths. It might be this one: I am Fishead.

That is a very hard question, but, if I found out all of our leaders did all the nasty things they do because they were mentally ill, I would want to see them in a mental hospital rather than on trial.

reply to post by gallopinghordes


That's refreshing to hear it from your side of the fence. I know my cousin is involved in the mental health programs but ever since his state of mind has deteriorated. He doesn't even acknowledge our existence any more.

I wish he could have been in your prison, it sounds like how things should be run. I find it all very fascinating and mental health is where I want to progress into since being in health care.

iRoyalty

FirePiston
But see I am still bothered by a few things. What if we all assumed our elected leaders are all mentally ill? We cannot be mad at them for trying to enslave and control us because of their illness. Does that mean we give them a pass and feel sorry for them, it isn't their fault? When does murder or any other act of greed or insubordanance become a problem?
Firepiston

I watched a wicked documentary about how it could be quite possible that many leaders my be sociopaths. It might be this one: I am Fishead.

That is a very hard question, but, if I found out all of our leaders did all the nasty things they do because they were mentally ill, I would want to see them in a mental hospital rather than on trial.

When a cop pulls over a guy for speeding, or any offense, and he opens fire... He is mentally ill.. Are police not justified in firing back? Anyone who would open fire for that reason is messed up in the head. But should the cops get behind their car and think dang this guy must be crazy, don't shoot back lets wait until he runs out of ammo and then we will peacefully take him into custody. I get what you are saying. Hard question and fine line.
Firepiston

reply to post by iRoyalty


Every prison could easily incorporate these programs. Every prison in Washington now has an animal program, they work. Since many of these programs started they (mental health professionals) have been able to reduce the need for some meds. It's about treatment and teaching. I have to admit I was skeptical about them but they work. Reality most will be released seems to me that we want them to understand their conditions and the need for medication.

All other states have to do is contact Washington DOC headquarters and I'm sure they'll share what we've learned and started.

FirePiston
When a cop pulls over a guy for speeding, or any offense, and he opens fire... He is mentally ill.. Are police not justified in firing back? Anyone who would open fire for that reason is messed up in the head. But should the cops get behind their car and think dang this guy must be crazy, don't shoot back lets wait until he runs out of ammo and then we will peacefully take him into custody. I get what you are saying. Hard question and fine line.
Firepiston

edit on 23-2-2014 by FirePiston because: (no reason given)

That's a different kettle of fish, I'm not saying we let someone who has been murdering people carry on "Don't worry about him, he's just ill" lol

If I had been there when my cousin committed that crime, I would have used every force necessary to make sure he didn't harm anyone.

However, the proceedings after the initial incident. That's different.

If these people were not sick, then they would not be violent and still be who they were before.

I'm not saying these people shouldn't pay their debt, but being in prison, especially if they put you in as a sane person, is very detrimental to the healing process.

gallopinghordes
reply to post by iRoyalty

 

Every prison could easily incorporate these programs. Every prison in Washington now has an animal program, they work. Since many of these programs started they (mental health professionals) have been able to reduce the need for some meds. It's about treatment and teaching. I have to admit I was skeptical about them but they work. Reality most will be released seems to me that we want them to understand their conditions and the need for medication.

All other states have to do is contact Washington DOC headquarters and I'm sure they'll share what we've learned and started.

I think the main problem was that my cousin was deemed sane by two court psychologists. It's only been since he was inside that he has got obviously bad. I knew he was nuts long a go, but would my voice count over a professionals? Of course not.

Being in prison without mental health care just made him really bad. I believe he assaulted a guard or two and definitely a couple of inmates, usually because they were "tempting him".

There is a shape up that needs to be done, definitely in the UK. However mental health patients, if treated purely as prisoners will not be helped.

I don't understand the assessment given on this case. I posted on this on another forum yesterday. She doesnt seem schizophrenic, though borderline maybe, but she's level headed and not doing repetitive abnormal things, which is common amongst those unmedicated and extreme. She's not in a state. She's not seeing giant spiders and evil spirits, which is most common amongst schizophrenics especially women.

They just had two arrests of "satanists' who murdered.

They have re-opened a case about a child kidnapped years ago, where the one who supposedly did for sacrifice at Bohemian Grove by our elected and elites, or soon to be elected group of elites, were participating in their Mollach, fire death ritual.
And he even told his story on Oprah and hasn't been arrested but they were doing some investigation into that boys disappearance again.

We just had a weird flurry of Valentines day and example being, fire, death of 5 children. That doesn't go with Valentines to me, Fire, Baal, Death and the number 5, which means death. Interesting month eh?

Now you have a woman who is " crazy" who tried to murder her mom due to believing it was satanic cult.

The elite echlens including military and our own community elites, even higher ranker police, etc. are satanists. I use this word as it is common understanding. Whether or not this is a more ancient egyptian dark occult thing or not doesnt really matter. On the middle to lower levels its satanism and its all DARK and ritualistic on all the levels.

Now, when you are DOING DARK THINGS, YOU DON'T WANT THE SPOTLIGHT ON YOU.

So I believe this person is being used, in a case they set up with her or awareness, or not, to ridicule the whole concept of their satanic behavior and rituals.

Again, when you are DOING DARK THINGS, YOU DON'T WANT THE SPOTLIGHT ON YOU.

So this has nothing to do with mental illness and everything to do with some kind of ridicule the truth attempt.