Civility/Lack of Civility; Doing Unto Others; Reaping What One Has Sown;

imho . . .

GIVEN THAT
CIVILITY is a paragon foundation of ATS;

GIVEN THAT
"Doing unto others as one would have them do unto one's self;

GIVEN THAT
we all inexorably reap what we have sown--particularly apart from confession, repentance, forgiveness and the Blood covering of Yehoshua, The Christ;

It occurs to me that it MIGHT be useful/fruitful to ATTEMPT an exploration of that ball of wax in a thread.

I recognize that posting much of anything--particularly from a certain perspective--and certainly the least bit potentially controversial--will COMPEL the knee-jerk hostiles and trolls to descend on such a thread en masse for the usual dog-piling free-for-all. So be it. Maybe I'll be better at ignoring them, now.

My own . . . substrate of definitions and perspectives on the above descriptions of this 'ball of wax,' and therefore, the "ON TOPIC" parameters for this thread as I see them. I realize that some mods may be from different planets on such issues and therefore see the parameters quite otherwise. But for me . . . these are how I see them:

CIVILITY: Politeness, at least. Politeness = an earnest effort or at least an EARNEST APPEARING effort to avoid offense--particularly any UNNECESSARY offense.

And, given the flaws inherent in 'mind reading,' or imputing heart motives to others who are not living in our own skin . . . it seems to me that we all are wise to extend the benefit of the doubt to others on the score of the level and type of motive toward civility--at least to extend the benefit of the doubt as far as remotely reasonable and then maybe a bit more.

CIVILITY might also be described/defined as earnestly endeavoring to avoid any UNNECESSARY offense or discomfort on the part of others in the same context, situation. HOWEVER, that does NOT mean that the actor concerned is thereby forced to the stupid and impossible task of preventing offense, forcing others to NEVER be offended.

Some have a childhood ATTACHMENT DISORDERED LIFE SCRIPT to be FOREVER AND ALWAYS supremely OFFENDED at the drop of any excuse possible. That's a different issue. And I don't think civility is obligated to be the least bit responsible for that absurd craziness AT ALL.

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DOING UNTO OTHERS ... requires a certain level of EMPATHY sufficient to mentally, hopefully somewhat emotionally, PUT ONE'S SELF IN the skin or at least the shoes of another. THEN to behave charitably accordingly.

I have long comforted myself with the fact that I WANT genuine, authentic--preferably caring but CANDID feedback toward growing and maturing as a person and as a Christian. Therefore, when I give candid, honest, fact based or even considered opinion based input to another about their words, behaviors etc.--THAT'S what I'd want.

However, I agree and understand that the whole meme of the Biblical mandate to DO UNTO OTHERS . . . more has the intent of at least somewhat doing what the other would perceive as good--WHEN that good could be construed genuinely as more or less truly GOOD for the other person. That is, one would NOT consider giving an alcoholic another bottle of whiskey to BE "GOOD" even though the alcoholic would consider doing so to be "good."

Soooo, . . . for me . . . doing unto others is still weighted heavily on the side of what I'd perceive to be good were I in their shoes--yet colored by and taking into account what the other person(s) would consider good.

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REAPING WHAT ONE SOWS: We all do. It just does NOT WORK to sow cacti and pretend that one will get a bumper harvest of chocolate bon-bons, peaches or mangoes.

Oh, there's tons of rationalizations and pretenses--even on ATS--that one CAN sow cacti and reap bon-bons. There's even tons of strident trolling on various topics from the perspective of THAT delusion. But in the end . . . it simply does NOT work.

Now it is ALSO alarmingly TRUE alarmingly often . . . that . . . "NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED." We can sow wonderful seed out of a genuinely good heart and STILL get, in the short term, nothing but or little but horrendous blow-back or hostility or pig poo dumped liberally on us in response.

It is NOT ALWAYS EVIDENT from observations of the SHORT TERM results of an action--that the action was genuinely fostered from a good motive out of a good heart. Most alcoholics are not that thrilled at being thrown into the drunk tank, to sober up, with all the other smelly dirty drunks.

All that considered, IN GENERAL, and certainly ultimately, we DO reap what we sow. It IS an operative UNIVERSAL LAW of the multiverse.

It's just that some harvests are so distant, in time, from the sowing, that many folks are 'comfortable' operating in the delusion that, FOR THEM, the law doesn't work. It only works for all those "SCHMUCKS--OVER THERE."

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And THAT, I think, is one of the reasons that so much UNcivility is lived-in, walked-out, abjectly SPEWED--soooo liberally, chronically, persistently on ATS and otherwise in life.

IF the reaping were within seconds to a few minutes of the sowing, there'd be a LOT LESS uncivility and other bad-faith, bad-heart motivated junk in relationships.

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When I think of CIVIL, CIVILITY . . . the qualities, traits, attitudes, behaviors that I see falling under that umbrella are:

1. KINDNESS

2. Generosity of spirit

3. Extension of the benefit of the doubt (but not extended so far as to be delusional. The TRUTH is also a fitting and ultimately necessary part of foundational civility.)

4. Compassion

5. EMPATHY--particularly authentic, practical, understanding, accurate empathy

6. UNDERSTANDING . . . Erich Fromm noted decades ago, in THE ART OF LOVING, that understanding was a component of love. I think it is also a necessary component of civility. And, frankly, many people simply CANNOT understand a perspective different from their own--particularly on some scores, topics.

7. FAITHFULNESS TO the attitude and actions logically following from EMPATHY. i.e. one doesn't walk by a starving street urchin while munching a Big Mac and kick the starving kid in the process.

8. RESPONSIVENESS--authentically caring, attuned, perceptive, thoughtful RESPONSIVENESS. It is NOT CIVIL to IGNORE another--particularly needlessly. I think this is one of the most outrageous examples of hypocrisy on the part of those most screaming about "! CIVILITY !" on ATS.

It is one thing to invite questions and feedback--WHILE RESULTINGLY to totally ignore said questions and feedback. This is all the MORE horrifically and bone marrow OFFENSIVE TO those who have suffered extensive ATTACHMENT DISORDER as children.

Many such individuals would rather be shot or lose a finger or limb rather than to be ignored. For them, being ignored is the supreme evidence from life that they DO NOT EXIST, ARE TRULY WORTHLESS. It strikes at the bone-marrow heart of that gaping hole of DISCONFORMATION, lack of fatherly congruent, faithful, available, emotional AFFIRMATION, CONFIRMATION from a quality loving dad as a child.

near out of characters

9. CIVILITY is gracious. Not stupidly, shallowly, ignorantly gracious. But foundationally, generously gracious.

GRACIOUS = gracefully extending the benefit of the doubt . . . kindness . . . caring . . . to another--deserved, or not.
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reply to post by BO XIAN


Sooooo . . . I wonder . . .

How many of us

to what degree . . .

are TRULY dedicated to walking out a life, a foundational value of

CIVILITY
DOING UNTO OTHERS . . .
SOWING GOOD INTO OTHERS' LIVES (ultimately to our own benefit)

???

I know I'm going to redouble my efforts toward such.

I'm not deluded enough to think that my dedication to TRUTH IN LOVE will be abandoned.

On that score, I agree with John and Paula Sanford in TRANSFORMATION OF THE INNER MAN that

TRUTH WITHOUT LOVE IS BRUTALITY.
LOVE WITHOUT TRUTH IS USELESS SENTIMENTALITY.

AND, I'm not deluded enough to think that the chronic cadre of compulsively hostile, assaultive naysayers will suddenly abandon their 'raison d'etre,' their passion, their religion, their hobby, their avocation to 'assault now and ask questions later, if ever.'

However, that will have to be THEIR enlisting the universal law of sowing and reaping. I'm not responsible to the least degree for their reaping what they've sown. They are.

I can behave in ways that fan the flames less or avoid fanning the flames, where possible, at all.

What about thought attention getting, provoking satire, hyperbole?

That's a challenging issue. A LOT of literature and effective writing uses one or both of those tools.

However, like humor . . . they are most tricky to use WITH CIVILTY.

And, I think WHERE THE MOTIVE is truly civil at a heart level, that MOST good hearted folks will get the drift and respond congruently in kind.

reply to post by BO XIAN


This is quite the paradox.

Your OP's express civility and empathy, and yet have a current of patronizing hostility that runs through them.

...I guess we do reap what we sow.

reply to post by Perhaps



Perhaps "patronizing" . . . like beauty . . . is in the eye, heart and/or mind of the beholder.

I can understand that some of my writing may well come across that way to some readers.

That doesn't mean that I'm convinced that such a perspective is an accurate representation of my heart, mind, intent, attitude.

However, you'll likely have a chorus of amener's join in soon enough . . . if they bother at all.

Now . . . how many such will actually contribute something thoughtful, enlightening, edifying, growthful, uplifting, challenging--in a good sense . . . to the thread . . . remains to be seen.

Nice post OP,

Those words seem to not have meaning to many people these days. It seems the idea now is to force opinion, instead of fact, as fact, as forcefully as possible.

Sad days indeed, that people must feel offended at a conversation or debate.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

When in doubt: "If you can't say something nice, best to not say anything at all. "

Sadly, many people associate their own emotions with what they read. Rather than looking at it as a monotone dialogue from the other person. Unless people state their "tone", and I'm not sure where people get this idea, text conversations are emotionless, even IF the poster is indeed, in an emotional state. (Thus, this entire post of mine should be read with a clinical flat tone, think "Analytical Spock").

/Hat tip

So. Are we gonna have a thread full of adages and common sayings?

Ok.

The early bird gets the worm.

Sometimes when people are part of something, and their lives are, in their opinion, 'protected',they perhaps imagine themselves in a 'bubble' that is outside the realms of karma and direct influence. They are wrong, they are completely within the realms of karma and direct influence, that bubble is their ego and it doesn't protect them. Therefore, they should be more MINDFUL of their words and actions.

However that involves controlling their ego, which is something they have to first be aware of, then learn about before acting upon. Learning about ego is part of basic TRUTH and if their hearts, soul and minds were closed to the truth they would not comprehend such basic premises of TRUTH.

AWARENESS -> LEARNING -> ACTION = MINDFULNESS -> CIVILITY -> KARMIC REALISATION -> TRUTH

reply to post by BO XIAN


Do I agree with your post - that goes without saying - though I will say it, lol.

Problem is? There's so much unreleased angst in the world.

Where do we see this? Just about everywhere. All the pent up anger and hatred just waiting for the trigger, the excuse to explode.

Where do we see people releasing this angst?

Places like road rage comes to mind. Public shooting sprees, etc.

To a lesser degree online social media/online forums where you meet the verbal terrorists ready to fight you to the death with words.

My point (though I'm rambling today) - 'Attacking' people here online has become a drug and a release. Pretty potent combination. I truly believe verbal terrorism has become an addiction for many. Now, while you and I can do our best to be cordial, to be kind, to get out point across without standing on someone else's chest to stand taller? Others can't resist. They just can't.

It's like you said - some would rather shoot themselves in the foot for the attention rather than just dance the dance.

Peace and Blessings to you! I hope people who read your OP absorb some of it. It's all good.

Cygnis

Sadly, many people associate their own emotions with what they read. Rather than looking at it as a monotone dialogue from the other person. Unless people state their "tone", and I'm not sure where people get this idea, text conversations are emotionless, even IF the poster is indeed, in an emotional state. (Thus, this entire post of mine should be read with a clinical flat tone, think "Analytical Spock").

Certainly tones are a key aspect of communication.

Great tones CAN be a major component of CIVIL, kind, thoughtful, empathetic, ... a true wealth and treasure of communication.

Destructive tones can be devastating.

One of the most troublesome things about tones are that the person perceiving the tones does so through their own history, substrate, perceptions. And, most typically, individuals tend to HEAR others' tones as more or less identical to the tones of key parental figures in their past--particularly anyone who otherwise reminds the individuals of said parental figures.

THEN, their reactions--particularly with a backlog closet full of black stamps and baggage from their ATTACHMENT DISORDERED childhood--WILL BE AS THOUGH they were responding actually to the troublesome parental figures themselves.

Then it's a usual game of REACTION, reaction, reaction. Little true hearing and CIVIL responding occurs.

Thx much for your kind contributions.

reply to post by 35Foxtrot


Somehow, I'm failing to wrap my mind around the edifying, constructive contribution of your post.

Perhaps you could put it in different wording and I could grasp it.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


Certainly that bubble phenomenon seems to be a great influence on folks' behaviors.

I think you are likely right that the bubble is at least an ego issue.

And, of course, ego--particularly reactionary ego--is a function of ATTACHMENT DISORDER (RAD) generated dynamics. The individual feels worthless--an epidemic issue--probably because their dad (at least) also felt worthless [at a conscious and/or unconscious core level] because of his dad etc. etc. . . . resulting in insecurity generated pride, arrogance, defensiveness, anger, vengeance etc. and all the more so toward those perceived in any significant reflexive triggering way to be LIKE the parent who was so inadequate at TRANSMITTING genuine affirmation and WORTH.

And generally, it is the dad who is the primary, if not only effective transmitter of a foundational sense of worth. Mother's love is more or less there regardless, in most cases. But dad's affirmation carries an inherent whole 'OTHER' powerful message . . . or lack of said message as is usually the case imho, in 95+% of the homes.

Therefore, the ego driven lack of civility REALLY IS another facet of the epidemic of ATTACHMENT DISORDER.

Nevertheless, the universal law of SOWING AND REAPING still operates--regardless of RAD ego driven causes, or not.

reply to post by silo13


Thx Big for your kind reply.

You certainly model well Civility, Doing unto others and sowing good seed virtually regardless--hereon and elsewhere.

Thanks for your great example.

I agree . . . some folks are about as capable of responding or posting with genuine &/or effective civility as most alcoholics are able to resist a drink in a bar.

And, they do seem to compulsively treat others' chests as their DIVINE RIGHT PODIUMS on which to stand and spew forth their uniquely 'righteous' bile.

Great image.

I'm reminded of your great Etna thread linked in your signature. RAD infected folks are too often like a chronic spewing Mt Etna . . . or a hugely ripe pimple begging to be popped.

Ewwwww!

LOL.

Thx for your kind reply.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Good morning Bo. I agree that civility is needed amongst us (and everywhere for that matter) but haven't seen a great lack of it on ATS. Yeah there is some but most folks I've had discussions with are polite even when they disagree, for the most part anyway.

So I have to thank you for the cacti statement, it made me smile. It brought a vision to my mind of Charlton Heston in the Ten Commandments holding up the tablets and yelling at the Hebrews saying:

"Ye have sowed the cacti but shall reap the chocolate bon-bons, peaches or mangoes."

reply to post by BO XIAN


I think the biggest problem is knowing which choice is right, at that time. I made a choice once that I thought was right, I thought I was doing them a favor, but it turned out to be the worst thing I've ever done...

I broke my most basic philosophy and it took more than a decade to realize it...

reply to post by silo13


That is true that people are generally a bit angsty.

Probably because society is well and truly shafted. People being slave to the machine, money, banking etc all the usual culprits bearing down like an oppressor.

That and the time factor, who really has enough time to truly relax, get their mind together, get their priorities in order for giving sufficient time to that which really matters on the scale of things. Things like family, kids, grandparents etc and nature, getting acclimatized to nature and understanding the natural world (and importantly UNIVERSE) we live in that surrounds our constructed environments and that is essential to our well being and survival.

Man (figuratively, including women) being slave to the man was and is never a good idea.

Shutting out that which is important will bring it hurtling your way with more force than before.

reply to post by BO XIAN


Society has expected of men the following of their ego and suppression of essential truth and higher nature which has impacted their home lives which has impacted the next generation.

This is something the male dominated society has done to themselves.

Until the basic premises of truth and recognition of higher nature and that to which humanity belongs and righteous behaviour that cycle is set, break the cycle and realise the real important things in life and the Universe and things will fall into place.

reply to post by Bassago


I think that there are dozens of threads hereon with lots of civility--at least fairly high levels of relatively authentic civility.

However, . . . the Christian vs XYZ threads tend to demonstrate a lot of the opposite . . . and a subset of that . . . Creationist vs their opponents . . . and . . . the UFO threads . . . and the 911 threads . . .

. . . virtually any thread where there are strong emotions held and generated by the differing perspectives.

The strong emotions tend to energize the "omniscient arrogance" stances triggered by early childhood RAD dynamics and the conscious/unconscious perceptions that a given correspondent or perspective is JUST LIKE a very troubling, troublesome &/or abusive parent--particularly a father, imho.

And, I think that you are particularly good at being charitable toward one and all regardless of how much trollishness a given individual is typically or at the moment displaying.

Good on ya for that!

Thx for your kind reply.

CretumOrbis
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

I think the biggest problem is knowing which choice is right, at that time. I made a choice once that I thought was right, I thought I was doing them a favor, but it turned out to be the worst thing I've ever done...

I broke my most basic philosophy and it took more than a decade to realize it...

Boy have I been there and done that! In a big way 2-3 times in 67 years and in moderately destructive ways more times than I care to try and recall and in lesser ways too many times to count.

However, WHEN I empathize a LOT . . . am thoughtful and purposeful toward the ideals in the OP . . . AS WELL AS doing what I can to tune into God's highest for the others and all concerned . . . things go tremendously better in lastingly good ways regarding civility and the rest of those ideals.

I think some call that sort of constructive premeditation "INTENTIONAL LIVING."

deleting double post.

theabsolutetruth
reply to post by silo13

 

That is true that people are generally a bit angsty.

Probably because society is well and truly shafted. People being slave to the machine, money, banking etc all the usual culprits bearing down like an oppressor.

That and the time factor, who really has enough time to truly relax, get their mind together, get their priorities in order for giving sufficient time to that which really matters on the scale of things. Things like family, kids, grandparents etc and nature, getting acclimatized to nature and understanding the natural world (and importantly UNIVERSE) we live in that surrounds our constructed environments and that is essential to our well being and survival.

Man (figuratively, including women) being slave to the man was and is never a good idea.

Shutting out that which is important will bring it hurtling your way with more force than before.

I think all your points are important ones that contribute to uncivility and abandonment of doing unto others and thoughtfulness about the universal law of reaping what we sow.

I believe that's been BY DESIGN on the part of satan and his forces . . . including the fallen angels and the NWO globalist human henchmen constructing society in deliberately self-destructive ways so that they can rear their super-tyranny on the ashes of the "old order."

Regardless, we are where we are as a culture. And it is clearly swimming against the tide to behave in constructive ways regardless. I don't see how anyone can do it in their own wisdom or strength. Even just having the hope and will to persist in getting out of bed another day vs sink into utter despair takes some sort of reliably functional connection--in Sartre's terms--to The Infinite; to God.

And even time, motivation and knowledge to establish and maintain THAT connection has been wholesale obliterated out of the culture in 100's of ways. The media has been deliberately engineered into glorifying destructive elements vs constructive ones in interpersonal relationships.

Do we see hoodies and T-Shirts glorifying CIVILITY, EMPATHY, DOING UNTO OTHERS etc. MORE than skulls, death, vampires, mayhem, ruthlessness, might=right etc? I don't think so.