Question For skeptics

data5091
reply to post by schuyler

 

All I am saying is that SOME radar sightings, some experiences, cannot be explained. If they are not something we would recognize as being anything related to military, then what are they, what could they be? .....

All I'm saying is that a failure to find an explanation is NOT proof -- or even a suggestion -- that a novel stimulus is required.

What YOU are saying is that IF all UFO reports were ONLY caused by prosaic stimulus, people would therefore ALWAYS be able to find EVERY explanation.

In the real world, how well does that logic work with murders? Missing persons? Aircraft accidents? Missing socks?

Picollo30
If there are other planets why can't there be conditions for life?

"Conditions for life" and life can be two different things. Tell us how life arose/happened/came to be on Earth, and let's see if we can apply it to other places. Oh, that's right. Nobody knows how life happened on Earth. So we can't extrapolate. Life might just be a wildly "astronomical" fluke that never happened anywhere else. There are plenty of singular things in the universe. Life might be one of them.

i think it's kinda selfish to believe we and our planet are so unique.

Selfish. Arrogant. Sad. Lonely. Awesome. Whatever. Depends on your individual psychological makeup, I suppose.

DJW001
Statistically, there is almost certainly a great deal of life throughout the universe. Since what we call "intelligence" seems to be survival positive, natural selection favors the evolution of intelligence.

I think the bolded part above is very questionable, to say the least.

That is, natural selection favors any development that increases the ability of a species to procreate. You might just as well state that life elswhere would have big lips and breasts that mimic a view from the rear, as these attributes have evolved in human females as a way to attract mates - thus increasing procreation among females with those attributes.

Intelligence is just one of billions of possible developments that allow a species to increase successful procreation. There is no reason at all to assume any life anywhere in the universe would necessarily evolve into a state like what we call "intelligent."

In fact, life was here on Earth for BILLIONS of years, and no intelligence developed.

Personally, I would prefer it that life elsewhere would be intelligent. But I admit there's simply no reason to think it is so.

On the other hand, As was said, statistically speaking, I believe that there is almost certainly life out there, somewhere.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


I didn't say human intelligence! The ability to solve problems has an evolutionary advantage. Most mobile species have some sort of problem solving capacity. Creatures capable of the sort of abstract thought that humans have are undoubtedly rare. Only one species on Earth has acquired it.

reply to post by Harte

In fact, life was here on Earth for BILLIONS of years, and no intelligence developed.

That view would depend on your definition of "intelligence" , as we only have fossil records to go by it's impossible to say what level of intelligence was gained Billions of years ago.

I agree with DJW001 that natural selection does favour the evolution of intelligence , Intelligence helps hunters to hunt and prey to avoid being prey long enough to breed and continue their species , Intelligence begats Intelligence .

data5091
As I have said before, there is evidence, lots of evidence, whether it be radar contacts, to abduction evidence, to markings on the ground where ufo's have been to additional evidence of abductees, and many people who have had close contact with a ufo have had medical conditions from this contact, usually related to radiation burns of some type, and so on. Its your choice, whether to accept this evidence or not.

edit on 22pm28pm5091 by data5091 because: (no reason given)

Yet the OP was specifically asking about Aliens and what skeptics believe.


Everything you mentioned could easily come from human sources.

reply to post by Picollo30

there was no cgi or means of faking photos in the 50's and 60's to my knowledge.

Means of manipulating photos goes back long before the 50s.

gortex
reply to post by Harte

 

In fact, life was here on Earth for BILLIONS of years, and no intelligence developed.

That view would depend on your definition of "intelligence" , as we only have fossil records to go by it's impossible to say what level of intelligence was gained Billions of years ago.

I agree with DJW001 that natural selection does favour the evolution of intelligence , Intelligence helps hunters to hunt and prey to avoid being prey long enough to breed and continue their species , Intelligence begats Intelligence .

I didn't disagree with that. In fact, I stated in my post that intelligence is one of billuions of adaptations favored by evolutionary processes.

I should have added this caveat - evolutionary "favoritism" is temporary. Many evolutionary adaptations (eventually) resulted in the extinction of the species so adapted. It all depends on environmental changes - what they refer to as "ecological niches."

Feathers are favored by evolution as well, aren't they? But we have no feathers. How do you explain this?

Harte

reply to post by Harte

Feathers are favored by evolution as well, aren't they? But we have no feathers. How do you explain this?

Feathers are a part of evolution but I don't think they are favoured , we don't have feathers but neither do cat's , dogs or pigs.
I see intelligence across the board in nature from the smallest insects to the largest mammals , it just varies in degree and complexity but there is no doubt it is favoured by evolution.

gortex
reply to post by Harte

 

Feathers are favored by evolution as well, aren't they? But we have no feathers. How do you explain this?

Feathers are a part of evolution but I don't think they are favoured , we don't have feathers but neither do cat's , dogs or pigs.

A dog, cat or pig could make the same argument about intelligence though. And feathers are absolutely favored. If they weren't, species that utilize feathers would either never have adopted their use or would today be extinct.

A thing that is favored is only favored until circumstances change. In our case, we have developed quite a large amount of intelligence (I agree that intelligence exists in other species, just at a lower level.) In fact, it is certain that our own intelligence might cause our extinction, illustrating what I mean when I say that favored adaptations are temporary.

I see intelligence across the board in nature from the smallest insects to the largest mammals , it just varies in degree and complexity but there is no doubt it is favoured by evolution.

Again, I stated in both previous posts that it is favored. So are teeth. Why is it that some animals don't have teeth then?

What I mean by that is this: simply because an adaptation might be favorable, that in no way implies that such an adaptation will necessarily occur.

Harte

reply to post by Harte

What I mean by that is this: simply because an adaptation might be favorable, that in no way implies that such an adaptation will necessarily occur.

Agreed; otherwise we would all have eyes in the back of our head.

DJW001
reply to post by Harte

 

What I mean by that is this: simply because an adaptation might be favorable, that in no way implies that such an adaptation will necessarily occur.

Agreed; otherwise we would all have eyes in the back of our head.

Our mothers, and some teachers, have acquired this adaptation already!

Harte

DJW001
reply to post by Harte

 

I didn't say human intelligence! The ability to solve problems has an evolutionary advantage. Most mobile species have some sort of problem solving capacity. Creatures capable of the sort of abstract thought that humans have are undoubtedly rare. Only one species on Earth has acquired it.

Not sure about that. At least one other branch of OUR tree did, and we still know little about advanced animal intelligence. Cetaceans, apes, certain birds, Cephalopoda [a hundred-plus million year old success story]... And most animals have achieved a moderate level of intelligence. Nobody is going to tell me my Black Lab isn't a thinking, feeling being.

The problem is our myopic search for ourselves. Intelligence is common on earth, but we only recognize human intelligence. With this outlook how would we hope to know alien intelligence when we encounter it?

Xtrozero
There are no skeptics about other life or even other intelligent life in our universe since there is tangible proof of both. The skeptical aspect of it all is whether they are flying around us in their little ships.

I do not believe because I know!
If you see them up close and communicate with them you do not need to believe.
Now the problem is that even if you share that with others they still will not believe.
After awhile it get old trying to explain yourself to stupid people that are so self-centered.
I share information on forums like this not for the fools that think they know it all, but for the few that have an open mind or that have also seen aliens.
You know who you are!

waltwillis

Xtrozero
There are no skeptics about other life or even other intelligent life in our universe since there is tangible proof of both. The skeptical aspect of it all is whether they are flying around us in their little ships.

I do not believe because I know!
If you see them up close and communicate with them you do not need to believe.
Now the problem is that even if you share that with others they still will not believe.
After awhile it get old trying to explain yourself to stupid people that are so self-centered.
I share information on forums like this not for the fools that think they know it all, but for the few that have an open mind or that have also seen aliens.
You know who you are!

Lighten up, Francis.