That USAF Tunneling Machine and other myths

Originally posted by BeyondBelief
Thank you all for your input. I stated that the machine was faked to appear to be of USAF origin, and yes it is faked to show that. It might even be a stock library photo of a drilling machine pictured in China - who knows. The fact is, it's a tampered with photo that has done the rounds and has many fools sat at home thinking that the USAF are constanly digging big tunnels to house secret things.

As Off_The_Street has shown. The image can be found on a Gov't website. Why would the US Gov't put a photoshoped image on there site? or one that's supposedly related to a topsecret project of underground tunnels? I believe the image is real. But I do not believe there is a massive network of tunnels.

You also have not shown why you think the image is photoshoped. You just claim it so. That does not make it a fact. Zooming in on a small .jpg compressed image isn't going to show you much of anything but some large pixels and image artifacts. If you want to insist that it's fake, show us what signs tell you that it's faked.

For each nuclear weapon test both tunnels and bore holes were used to place the weapons underground, the A.F. used a number of different sizes of T.B.M.s to drill tunnels that link test sites to storage locations, communications conduits, and test-service-tunnels.

The Nuclear powered/fluid-heated T.B.M. (cause that is how it actually works) does not use lasers, the technology is simple and efficient. Read the patent abstract, it explains the process. OR try this at home kiddies!
Take a large metalic object with a rounded end, heat it up ... then push it down into a carton of ice cream. Same effect.

*I stayed away from using big words this time!

Chuck Stevenson says:

"I have posted regarding Nuclear Powered T.B.M.s before..."

Do you have any evidence that such a device actually exists, or is it simply wishful thinking?

"I know of two T.B.M.s with 30-foot faces buried just 40' under a major street in Los Angeles which were used to create the tunnels for the 'Red Line' subway for the Los Angeles MTA."

Right. No one else in the entire city of Los Angeles knows about two radioactive machines right in the middle of downtown, but you do.

I don't suppose it'd do any good to ask you for any evidence for such an assertion, would it?

BB, as you may be able to determine from my phot website, I use Photoshop a lot, and I can't tell if the image has been modified or not. But given that it's a JPEG, I don't think many people can tell if it's been 'shopped or not.

But you are rightwhen you say that such pictures have travelled around the Internet, spawning silliness like a locus does eggs. As you can see from this very thread, a perfectly normal machine with a perfectly normal explanation using perfectly normal technology has morphed, in the minds of the wuwus, to non-existent nuclear borers who melt rock as they go -- or equally silly laser blasters.

or equally silly laser blasters.

Have you missed the fact that I've actually proven they exist or are on the anvil?

Indigo says:

"Have you missed the fact that I've actually proven they exist or are on the anvil?"

As far as I know, you haven't proven anything. Maybe I didn't see your articles or photographs. Please produce your evidence (if you have any) again.

As far as I know, you haven't proven anything. Maybe I didn't see your articles or photographs. Please produce your evidence (if you have any) again.

Then, for yours eyes only:

From American Association of Petroleum Geologists:

www.aapg.org...

Lasers Demonstrate Power To 'Beam' Through Rocks
The initial laser drilling experiments in 1997 used the U.S. Army's Mid-Infrared Advanced Chemical Laser (MIRACL) and the U.S. Air Force's Chemical Oxygen-Iodine Laser (COIL) systems -- both of which were used in tests on cores of sandstone, limestone, shale granite, salt and concrete.

Essentially, those early tests showed conclusively that:

Modern lasers have more than enough power to spall or cut, melt and vaporize rock.

This research focused on a laser-based drilling system making use of multiple beams of near-infrared energy placed adjacent to one another, collectively creating a hole. The size of the hole would then depend on the number, arrangement and burst frequency of the beams.

So it's not "silly" after all, is it?

The fact that a laser was used to test its ability to cut through rocks is certainly not "silly"; the fact that anyone extrapolates from a subscale test (which showed some significant engineering concerns -- see below) to working models in use today to bore out caverns is silly.

Look at the report below:

"These tests were very dramatic demonstrations that big lasers can easily penetrate rocks," said Claude B. Reed with the Argonne National Laboratory. "But what the researchers found was that while these big lasers were good for demonstration purposes, it was difficult to do scientific investigations, because parameters such as the power of the laser, the beam on time, or the power density were not known.

"Without all the necessary parameters it is difficult to understand how the laser beam actually does its work of fracturing rock or cutting through rock."

Not only that, but the researchers emphasized that the tests were carried out with dry rock, and they emphasized that, in the real world, the rock formations of interest will be permeated with moisture or actually incorporate layers of liquid (water or oil) under high pressure.

This, according to the researchers at the same location you cited, means that a whole lot of research needs to be carried out before you can even get past the concept demonstration stage.

If laser are to be used for drilling (and they probably will, sooner or later), the chances that they will incorporate a fixed head (since the beam is coherent, why should it matter if the end of the laser's six inches or 6000 feet from the face of the rock to be cut?).


But given the state of the art in laser cutting technology, and the capabilities of other, more cost-effective approaches to secret caverns, assuming that such a device exists based on some very preliminary tests is just, well....

...silly.

and the core was a good film - i thoroughly enjoyed it.

But given the state of the art in laser cutting technology, and the capabilities of other, more cost-effective approaches to secret caverns, assuming that such a device exists based on some very preliminary tests is just, well....

...silly.

I think you should read this article again, it shows that experimental studies have shown that laser tunneling devices can spall, cut or vaporize rock. So no, it is not "silly" - Denying something that is true, tested, and supported by US military scientists... is well..... silly. There is no shame in admitting you are wrong. We all make mistakes.

Further, if we are still talking about Schneider claims. What is state of the art here, is old news there. Or are you going to deny black world technology exists too?

I really think the site slogan should be emboldened and written in flashing letters, because some people still don't get it.

[edit on 24-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Keep personal attacks out the thread. Any more, and warnings will be handed out. Regards.

Originally posted by Off_The_Street
Chuck Stevenson says:

"I have posted regarding Nuclear Powered T.B.M.s before..."

Do you have any evidence that such a device actually exists, or is it simply wishful thinking?

"I know of two T.B.M.s with 30-foot faces buried just 40' under a major street in Los Angeles which were used to create the tunnels for the 'Red Line' subway for the Los Angeles MTA."

Right. No one else in the entire city of Los Angeles knows about two radioactive machines right in the middle of downtown, but you do.

I don't suppose it'd do any good to ask you for any evidence for such an assertion, would it?

Actually you just gave us a great example of taking things 'out of context'. The sentence of mine which you quoted was immediately following a sentence regarding DIESEL and DIESEL/ELECTRIC systems. FYI - the two T.B.M.s are "Bertha" and "Louise" and they are located 200' north of the Red Line station, 40' under Lankersheim Blvd in North Hollywood, a part of greater Los Angeles. Why not e-mail the MTA and ask them if you don't believe me?

p.s. I am not about to spend 12 years in Federal Prison to satisfy your curiosity, do the hard research and then make up your mind.
Patent office
Needless to say - there is more disinformation than information on this subject.

[edit on 24-11-2004 by Chuck Stevenson]

I have not stopped laughing since reading your post either. I'm happy you joined us, but you sure stuck your foot in your mouth & killed your credibility with your first post.

These types of machines have been around for many years, why you picked this to debunk I don't know there's nothing too mysterious about tunnel boring machines. As you have been shown the machine is indeed real & not a hoax - unless the government is posting fake photos on a government site. If they are you need to present more evidence.

I don't know where you're from or how old you are, but obviously you have not seen much of the world yet. I've been in tunnels that take an hour to get through at 60mph - without machines like that they could never be built.

I worked at a place once where we would have take a high speed rail car tunneled inside a mountain to work everyday and that was over 20 years ago.




[edit on 24-11-2004 by outsider]

Chuck, I assumed you were saying that there are nuclear-powered drilling machines buried under LA. If you did not mean that but instead meant that there were two conventional ones, then I misunderstood you and apologize.

Nonetheless, you still have not presented anyone here with any reliable evidence about the existence of nuclear-powered boring machines at all. Instead, you make this rather questionable statement:

"I am not about to spend 12 years in Federal Prison to satisfy your curiosity..."

Do you expect us to infer that you are privy to classified information which would get you locked up if you divulged it?

Sorry, Chuck; I don't buy it.

If you were privy to classified information, you would not even mention it in an elliptical way, because if there were such a machine (which I do not believe) and if you were privy to its existence (again, which I do not believe), you would already be liable to prosecution for spilling what you know (or claim to know).

The bottom line, Chuck, is that you still have failed to provide us with the one thing we want from you:

Evidence.

And until you do provide any evidence about these machines, I'm certainly not going to take anything you say at face value. and I doubt if many others here would, either.

[edit on 24-11-2004 by Off_The_Street]

Originally posted by BeyondBelief
I am really having fun since joining this forum, haven't stopped laughing. Anyway as many of you work on zero evidence to draw huge conclusions from I would like to make a change from the norm and have a serious topic devoted to facts. (That's facts Indigo_Child, therefore you might not feel equipped to join in.)

Anyway, I would like to systematically debunk certain pieces of so called "evidence." Hopefully then we can obsereve what is left over and make a decision as to whether there is any case to answer. However one could argue that you only have to disprove one claim made by Schnedier in order to disprove the whole lot.

Anyway for starters I would like to present exhibit 'A' - the "USAF Tunneling Machine" presented on many sites as "evidence" that we are living above a myriad of tunnels and caverns housing all kinds of unspeakable evil minded beings.
Well I am not saying that the USAF doesn't own a tunneling machine, although most large companies wouldn't buy one, they would lease one or use a sub-contractor. But in this case the photograph is a fake - it is photoshopped - the USAF logo has been stuck on using an image editor - you can clearly see this when you zoom in far enough. It is FACT. It is INDISPUTABLE. The logo has been put on there in order to add credebility to someones story at some point.


Now let's have a little debate about this if you like and let all the disciples of UFOs and conspiracys try to tell us that the USAF deliberately made their logo look like it was photoshopped just in case someone managed to get a photo of it onto the net.

After that, we can move on to more pieces of "evidence" to debunk.

This is a genuine picture. If there is one thing that the USAF does all the time it is take PR photographs of EVERYTHING. If you did any research prior to posting dumb statements you would have known this. There are a bunch of people posing in front of the equipment for a photo op, this much is completely evident. You don't seem to know how to use photo shop either, I don't see any evidence that the USAF was added after the fact. I guess the guys in US Air Force Uniforms where photoshopped also?? Now here is what you can infer from the photograph.

1) It was a PR photo that was released to the public so whatever project this was used for isn't classified as secret any longer (if it ever was).

2) The USAF has undergound facilities ALL OVER THE PLACE. Missle Silos, command and control facilities like Sheyanne Mountain are a few examples. They have lots of reasons to be using tunneling equipment.

3) This photo IS NOT EVIDENCE that there are underground alien/human bases. It is evidence that the USAF hired someone to do some tunnel boring for them, and that is all.

4) Opinions are not FACT or INDISPUTABLE which is all you are presenting in your post. What is the argument you are presenting to show that the photo is faked? Anybody can post opinions, what is the logical list of supportable facts that support your conclusions?



[edit on 24-11-2004 by CaptAvatar]