Those without Ears

Aphorism
Like I said, they've moved beyond its use.

Then why are they still here on Earth?

reply to post by InTheLight

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isa. 55:9"

If only the lord was a better writer and a better philosopher, one might see the use in this quote.

reply to post by graphuto

Then why are they still here on Earth?

They continue to live.

reply to post by graphuto

God's law is perfect and just.

James mentions a perfect law but the context is a moral law that Christians understand, but is not referring specifically to the Old Testament Mosaic Law.
Psalm 19:7 says that the law is perfect but it means it in a way that one would describe a sacrificial animal, "without blemish".
So it probably means that there is a moral element to the law.
I don't see a verse saying that the Law is just, but Paul says that by the Law, no man is justified.
So if there is a role for the Law, meaning the Old Testament Mosaic Law, then it is that no one can be justified by it, meaning that everyone needs to seek out another system, where they can be, which of course we know is the Christian church.

The gift of salvation is FREE!
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever should believe in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

If you go a few verses on in that passage, you see that it isn't "free".
John 3:21
But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
(2011 NIV)

What is translated as "what they have done" in the above quoted version, in the Greek is "works".

reply to post by InTheLight

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isa. 55:9"

If this verse is not self-explanatory to some, then I offer my take on this, in that, we can all strive for an understanding of God's truth, but in all liklihood, it may be impossible.

It is the response to the former Israelite's demands that they have a great kingdom, rather than their position as a minor client state to a global empire.
It is speaking for God, saying "I have the big picture in view, and am bringing these things in my own time."

reply to post by jmdewey60


I believe the original 'system' you speak of is the coming together of kindred spirits of their respective religions, to continue, in unison, both spiritually and intellectually, the exploration of what could God's plan mean for them in the present time, not for one to preach while the many, simply, follow without question.

reply to post by InTheLight

. . . not for one to preach while the many, simply, follow without question.

I don't know what you think I am doing.
I am working against the "preach and follow" syndrome where people think they are going with biblical principles but are really following philosophical constructs for dubious ends, like supporting the suppression of the Palestinians based on some fraud that the descendants of central Asian converts to Judaism have more of a right to be there.

jmdewey60
reply to post by InTheLight

 

. . . not for one to preach while the many, simply, follow without question.

I don't know what you think I am doing.
I am working against the "preach and follow" syndrome where people think they are going with biblical principles but are really following philosophical constructs for dubious ends, like supporting the suppression of the Palestinians based on some fraud that the descendants of central Asian converts to Judaism have more of a right to be there.

My reply was not directed at anything you are doing, but rather the experience I have in the various 'church' environments.

graphuto

People do what people do because they're wicked. How can you blame this on God? Would you that we were all robots with no free will?

edit on 21-2-2014 by graphuto because: (no reason given)

The good are punished and killed, while the evil flourish and thrive. Does that seem right to you?
And also did I ever imply or say that free will is bad. If I wanted to say that I'd say it directly.
No not every one's wicked and I wouldn't blame god for that. We're sometimes misguided and manipulated, doesn't necessarily make us all wicked and evil.

I blame god for sitting by like a passive waste while the human race is dispatched with haste, probably why he need's a book to cover up his face.

I wouldn't expect you to open you're eyes to what's happening in the world, you're eyes will be buried in a book and I will have moved on from this discussion. For history will only repeat itself over and over again in this confined space and I don't know how many times we must hear of your god doing something great in a first world country but never will you see him fix anything in places like Somalia.
Call me vicious, evil, psycho, cold hearted but from what I've had to watch he's doing nothing but sitting on a cloud with music turned all the way up to drown out screams.

You make a mistake in your reasoning which is born of the infliction of superiority within the faiths.

That those who do not abide by; and read the Biblical texts; are not graced by a Divine power.

This is rubbish! In its most pure and disgusting form!

"For even a blind man; knowing nothing of light. Can still feel the warmth of the sun; and know it shines too for him".

To believe that your faith in an unsubstantiated God gives you grace of a 'higher beauty' in the world; means that in reality it is YOU who are deaf, blind and dumb!

For anyone alive in this world with a heart; can identify beauty and feel joy. Everyone shares the same distinction of darkness and light; REGARDLESS of their beliefs!

And everyone has the ability to live a life of righteous; just by understanding right and wrong by testing of it with their heart.

For any religious followers to believe that those who are not of their faith do not experience amazing things in this world; or are inferior and 'limited' in their understanding of the value of the gift of life they have been given; is so conceited; delusional; bitter and arrogant, that I would suggest they seek a psychological evaluation for delusions of grandeur.

How can anyone believe that we are flawed as a species; and yet believe themselves elevated through a belief in writings; which are; at their best; the wisdom of common sense?!?

How can anyone say that without the Bible; we detach ourselves from responsibility; when the Bible teaches us to view ourselves as inferior genetically; and that our mistakes are NOT OUR FAULT?

This is exactly why Samael is going to end the Churches of this world. Because of those such as yourselves; who look at the world through a 'us-and-them' mentality; regardless of the goodness of the hearts of those who fall outside their personal beliefs.

How dare you speak of other people like they are below you in such a way! Like their lives mean less to them. Like they aren't capable of doing amazing things in this world; and changing it for the better!!

You need to ask yourself why any 'God' who claims to give unconditional love; would demand WORSHIP from those; who are already living a righteous, peaceful, harmonious and beautiful existence?

Why would such people need to be instilled with fear of persecution; for things they try not to do ANYWAY; just so that they can be offered salvation, if they don't conform to an existence which would be near IDENTICAL to the one they were already living; except for the blind faith and worship??

What true GOD would put a condition of worship upon themselves to receive love from beautiful people?

You are all fools; and I can not say that I am at all sorry that the TRUE Divine Powers of this world are about to take down the Churches.

jmdewey60
reply to post by GodIsRelative

 

It is definitely more difficult to speak of Truth when people do not understand color and want to paint everything in black and white.

Do you mean like having a lot of theories about God and the Law and salvation, but can't back them up by actual biblical teachings?

No, I mean that I could show you biblical teachings for every single one of my theories about God and the Law, but you wouldn't listen because you already have your mind made up.

BTW, jmdewey60, you are the sole and exact person who inspired me to author this thread, so congratulations on your continued failure to grasp the Wisdom of the Spirit.

reply to post by graphuto


Right there is why I can't be Christian, whenever I have any serious doubts it's "but a book says this" or "Satan did it" and you have not addressed any of my issues. The book is still just someone's interpretation of an event that happened, not only that but the bible has still been altered, many times.

If there is a Satan, then I do not let him/her/it into my life. In Buddhism they talk of the Demon Mara, who tried to tempt Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha) into lust, violence, false speech and anger when he tried to attain enlightenment. However, we do not believe that a real Demon attacked Siddhartha, we are quite aware that the story is a metaphor, of what I would consider Siddharthas shadow-side (The thoughts at the back of your mind that tell you to give up, or that say how much you want to punch the person who pushed in a queue etc). What I'm trying to say is, I just don't understand why the bible is taken so literally.. There is a lot of good in the Bible, in fact what Jesus teaches is really not that different from what the Buddha taught in the Dharma, but people taking it too literally and having no open mindedness about the subject is just straight dangerous. Please don't prove why you take the bible literally with bible verses, I wont accept it as evidence because it's not reliable.

Also, I want to say I do not wish to offend you in any way, everyone is welcome to their own views and I respect that. I just love deep debates about religion, I think it's fascinating.

reply to post by HigherTruth


You make the mistake in assuming that I believe those things.

I do not believe that humanity is graced by divine power by their very existence.
To think so would be foolishness, because wickedness and evil are rampant in this world and there is no escaping that simple fact. If Humanity had Divine power that came not from the fulfillment of GOD'S Law, then there would be no war, no hunger, and no evil. PERIOD.

To believe that mankind can escape this wickedness and evil under their own power is supremely arrogant, and this belief is completely and wholly responsible for all the continued evil in this world.

You need to ask yourself why any 'God' who claims to give unconditional love; would demand WORSHIP from those; who are already living a righteous, peaceful, harmonious and beautiful existence?

This here is where I find the greatest fault in your arguments.

GOD does not demand worship, nor does he demand anything! God has made promises to be faithful to us if we are faithful to Him. NO MORE, AND NO LESS.

IF there are those who are living a righteous, peaceful, harmonious, and beautiful existence without God's help, then I believe that any JUST AND MERCIFUL GOD would allow those people to experience Heaven without so much as an ounce of "belief" or "worship." The hard and cold truth of the matter is that those people simply do not exist. There is no such thing as a "righteous existence" if there is no Righteousness from which to base our judgement! The rest of your post was just derogatory inferences based on my exhausting will to stop those who try to steal God's children from Him. I have no respect for your words, because you have shown your ignorance with vibrant color. God does not demand sacrifice, nor worship, nor obedience, nor anything else from us except that we love each other. That's it. THAT'S ALL HE WANTS.

All I want to know is why so many try to stop us from doing that, for no other reason than because they disagree that God is the one who said we should do it?

blueyezblkdragon

graphuto

People do what people do because they're wicked. How can you blame this on God? Would you that we were all robots with no free will?

edit on 21-2-2014 by graphuto because: (no reason given)

The good are punished and killed, while the evil flourish and thrive. Does that seem right to you?
And also did I ever imply or say that free will is bad. If I wanted to say that I'd say it directly.
No not every one's wicked and I wouldn't blame god for that. We're sometimes misguided and manipulated, doesn't necessarily make us all wicked and evil.

I blame god for sitting by like a passive waste while the human race is dispatched with haste, probably why he need's a book to cover up his face.

I wouldn't expect you to open you're eyes to what's happening in the world, you're eyes will be buried in a book and I will have moved on from this discussion. For history will only repeat itself over and over again in this confined space and I don't know how many times we must hear of your god doing something great in a first world country but never will you see him fix anything in places like Somalia.
Call me vicious, evil, psycho, cold hearted but from what I've had to watch he's doing nothing but sitting on a cloud with music turned all the way up to drown out screams.

Do you understand the symbolism employed by your own choice of username, or did you just think that it was cool to combine the names of a couple of Yu-Gi-Oh monsters?

Your eyes are the ones that are not open. You are the one who fails to read the writing on the wall. God does not wait idly while we suffer! GOD IS OUR CHAMPION IN SUFFERING. GOD IS OUR REFUGE WHEN WE ARE CAST AWAY. Ignoring His presence does not mean that He is not there! The world suffers like a woman in the pains of labor. Does that mean that God should take Her Child so that She will not know pain any longer? Absolutely not! The pains we go through are because of our own sin(doubt). Only when we conquer our doubt will we be able to conquer our pain!

reply to post by iRoyalty


I think it's great that you hear God without the need to label yourself a Christian.

In fact, most of the best Christians do not realize that is what they are.

The only thing I'm completely sure of is that we will one day see that our work is not our own. Someone can be completely unaware of God's intervention in their life and they might look at it as if they did all of the things they were so proud of with no help, but one day all will know the One responsible for the blessings we have.

The way I see it, a person can easily be proud of the work they've made with their hands, but at some time or another, everyone will confess that they have no right to be proud of the work they made with hands that they did not make. Even a mother's womb is not something a person has that they can be proud of, for it was not they who made the womb. God made the womb, God made our hands, God made our heads and our hearts, so what do we have that we can be proud of? I wouldn't say I was proud to be born with eyes to see, or that I was proud to be born with ears to hear, for it is God who gave me these things, though I did nothing to deserve them. I am not proud to be able to work and I am not proud to be an American. These are things that only are true because God has made them so. If the deaf can hear and the blind can see, then this is also God's work, and I can think of no better way to give glory to Him than by using the ears, eyes, and lips that He has given us.

So regardless of whether you have a label for yourself as "Christian" or "atheist" or "polytheistic neo-pagan," if God's love is visible through you, then God's love is inside you, whether you know it or not.

In reply to GodIsRelative

(Do you understand the symbolism employed by your own choice of username, or did you just think that it was cool to combine the names of a couple of Yu-Gi-Oh monsters?
Your eyes are the ones that are not open. You are the one who fails to read the writing on the wall. God does not wait idly while we suffer! GOD IS OUR CHAMPION IN SUFFERING. GOD IS OUR REFUGE WHEN WE ARE CAST AWAY. Ignoring His presence does not mean that He is not there! The world suffers like a woman in the pains of labor. Does that mean that God should take Her Child so that She will not know pain any longer? Absolutely not! The pains we go through are because of our own sin(doubt). Only when we conquer our doubt will we be able to conquer our pain!)


I'm more than meets the eye . I also understand the symbolism in it. I will give you an answer for the name. The name I never chose it, it was someone close to me who used to throw the name around teasing me with it lovingly and playfully, I chose it in her memory. For she taught me more about myself than I would ever learn on my own.

I ended up with the name because of A. my dark skin tone and B. My eye colour is blue it's rather rare for someone of my complexion. I'm what most consider a half cast. Because I'm mixed, I'm rejected by both side's of my family once they look into my eye's and at my skin. You could not imagine the hate I felt for year's at aunt's, uncle's, cousins and all the rest of those who saw me as something less than human I was a monster a psycho and an instant criminal to them. You see they were Christian's and other religions too, all of them heavily religious in their own right's, too most of them I was thought of as impure to them, so I spent what were meant to be the happiest year's of my life hiding in shadows for fear of religious and racial persecution.

Crucified as a heretic and perished to embarrassment, kill the messenger knock em down and blow across a blessed verse, despise the sacrifice but never eulogise. I haven't come from a civilised place, where violence is preferred to sitting and saying grace. So believe in that just for one simple fact they'll take you're face off just like that, lies and deceit disguise and critique cause they'll fake showing love and leave me bleeding in the street. Above the darkness and the shame and the binding of my fate. When my eye's cried a million tear's and help never arrived I took matters into my own hand's.

And I quote "The pains we go through are because of our own sin(doubt) ". No what about the people that endured pain at the hands and mercy of other's?

I conquered pain on my own so I sure as hell don't need the devil or god, I need my own free will more than the shackles of those two clown's, who deal in pain and suffering.

If wall's could spill the lies we'd see the world through devils eye's. My eye's are open and I see everything for what it is. A world full of light and darkness, that can be improved little by little. A lifetime of living in shadows taught me that If I read only what's on the wall I'll never see the full message, I'll just see what another want's me to see, and that's what you must see. I'll see the world for what I see and you will only ever know what another would tell you.

I just want to point out while I've had enough experience with the religious I know that you mean well in you're endeavour, and as a Christian friend of mine once said "one day you'll have to choose between good and evil" my answer to the question was not everything's as black and white in my world. The day for that choice came over and over again in my life and what I said was as equally true as his statement.

I'm done cya another time another place.

reply to post by GodIsRelative


Thank you, it's very refreshing to know that even though you are quite religious that you have an open mind.

Whilst I am still even open to the possibility of there not being a God, there is still love in this world that you can easily tap into, love that connects all living beings and makes things work the way they should. If there is a God, this is where to find him/her/it.

reply to post by iRoyalty


In my mind and heart, I believe that Love is just another one of God's names.

So I couldn't agree more.

reply to post by blueyezblkdragon


You truly live up to your username, and for that I have to respect you.

But as for your argument, you are wrong.

And I quote "The pains we go through are because of our own sin(doubt) ". No what about the people that endured pain at the hands and mercy of other's?

The only person who can let you feel pain is yourself. The only person who can let you feel mercy is also yourself.
For proof, simply look at these truths.

To the one that wants to die, physical pain can be a pleasure.
To the one who wants to win, mercy at the hands of the victorious opponent can be true pain.

The only one who decides what is pain and what is pleasure is you.

And if you conquered pain, then I'd like to know how you did it without Love.

reply to post by GodIsRelative


GodIsRelative;

You shall have the fallen upon you shortly;

For you are one of those perpetuating the hate in this world in the name of God.

This is by far the biggest sin you could ever commit.

It is disgraceful that you carry the name of God, like its a badge of honour that you have earned.

Samael has something special for you. You shall receive it shortly!

When you do; consider your position of superiority and 'hate' towards those not of your faith.

Because it is disgusting! And you are the very evil you think you fight against!