Limitless: Valprioc acid allows brain to absorb new info as easily as it did before age 7

You guys do know that if you want to grow your brain, all you need to is start learning a new language, right?

I assumed that was a given in prior discussions, and still feel this substance might aid 'healthy young males' learn quicker.

But, the process of learning itself is what builds the brain and intelligence- literally. There should be a whole subject on that matter on ATS. It would be awesome to discuss how that process unfolds and what it means. It's in line with the thread questioning whether thoughts require language.

Language enhances thoughts; new vocabulary for instance, clarifies and expands the thought process.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I am also convinced my 'depression' is a result of being appalled by our society in general. However, I eat Depakote so that I don't have seizures. I do not medicate for depression. Normally, I am the guy who questions the value of medication.

I'm only sharing my experience, because I have often wondered what changed for me. I would like to believe that it was my hard work, and my hard work alone. However, I do my best to be truthful at all times, and the truth is I did not put any effort into my education, before or after starting Depakote.

gardener


Language enhances thoughts; new vocabulary for instance, clarifies and expands the thought process.

Right on the mark here.
Good post thanks.
Keep it up.

muzzleflash

tamusan
After starting Depakote, I also learned how to easily recognize musical notes by ear.

After getting on my Pepsi habit, I learned about quantum physics.
Pepsi must be good for Learning too ?

Post hoc ergo propter hoc

Why couldn't it just be "human brains" are "capable" of learning naturally? And it just takes time for the brain to develop to be able to recognize them precisely ?

Have people been able to achieve the feat without taking the medication historically?

No, they haven't. It's considered impossible to learn perfect pitch if you do not do so as a child. Your brain alters to the point it is no longer capable of it.

In fact I believe the OP even addressed this. If not .. it's not possible. That's why this is significant.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I'd happily include myself in your 'club' - if you have one.

I would never try to dissuade anyone from taking a medication, provided they felt they had a real need for it (and many do, especially in cases of epilepsy) and had proper guidance and knowledge of what they were taking.

What, to me, should be a last resort has become just the opposite. Have a problem? Oh, here's a pill for that.

reply to post by kalunom


I don't think anyone should start eating Depakote to become a better student or musician. I agree that medication should be a last resort, and only if really needed for a medical condition.

I know my results. I know something changed, but like I said, I would have never suspected the Depakote. I always thought it to be a vile substance to ingest.

I almost regret sharing my experience in this thread. I would hate to be a contributing factor for someone to take Depakote without a medical need. I approached this thread with an empirical intention and not to encourage anyone.

reply to post by gardener


Here is an interesting paper on valproic acid - Linky

Author(s)
José Christian Machado Ximenes, Emilio Crisóstomo Lima Verde, Maria da Graça Naffah-Mazzacoratti, Glauce Socorro de Barros Viana

ABSTRACT
Valproic acid (VA) is used worldwide as an antiepileptic drug and a mood stabilizer. Recently, VA was shown to act on cell growth, differentiation and apoptosis, by regulating gene expression at the molecular level, through epigenetic mechanisms. Thus, VA was demonstrated to act on the chromatin remodeling what is a consequence of the drug inhibition of histone deacetylases (HDACs) activity. Other studies uncovered the potential of VA to interfere with multiple regulatory mechanisms besides HDACs, as the GSK3 alpha and beta, Akt, ERK and phosphoinositol pathways, tricarboxylic acid cycle, GABA and OXPHOS system. The review focuses on the mechanisms of action of VA, showing that HDAC inhibitors, as VA, can be successfully used in the treatment of neurodegenerative disorders. This molecule, whose biological activities range from interactions with receptors and ion channels to the regulation of many catalytic reactions, has a central role in cellular cascades that regulate gene expression. Thus, inhibitors of HDACs, by positively affecting both neuronal degeneration and cognitive deficits, appear as promising drugs against various pathological conditions and neurodegenerative diseases. VA is known to present anti-inflammatory and antioxidative properties. And, since inflammation and oxidative stress are common links in neurodegeneration, VA is a drug that, from a clinical point of view, shows a great potential as a candidate for the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases related to excitotoxic events.

I may try it, it is used in the control of migraines and I do have purely visual migraines (visual distortions, sparkly bits, etc.). As always however, anything that effects the brain will generally speaking effect the liver and vice versa. So it is recommended that one has regular blood work to establish baseline liver counts, which I have no problem with doing. It might be an interesting journey, who knows?

I did look at the bonding diagrams and the formula which is C8H16O2, it's obviously a hydrocarbon but I wonder if an atom could be added or taken away that might reduce the potential for liver problems? I will have to do a bit more research and look up the different compounds around it.

ETA: here is another interesting expression of C8H16O2 - Linky. Please note the price towards the bottom of the paper.

Cheers - Dave

I don't know about the brain absorbing new knowledge, I did learn I will never ever take it again, so I guess this is right.

I do know it caused my feet to turn all black and that it caused my teeth to erupt and break, at least sixteen of them did this.

I know it messed up my liver and my kidneys. No permanent loss of brain function though, probably because they had me on provigil at the same time.

So maybe you can learn but if you don't learn to quit some of you will be dead as a doorknob. These are things it did to me, It may not happen to you. I also know someone who had their kidneys completely destroyed by this and she was too old to qualify for a kidney transplant. I guess it negatively effecting the liver and kidneys is well known. The blood tests only tell you if these organs are trashed, not being slowly tortured to death.

Have at it, I'd rather drink coffee, smoke cigarettes, eat chicken with poultry seasoning on it, and eat fish twice a week to get smarter. Study the Nootropics and the effect of Omega threes on the brain. Also having adequate magnesium in the diet keeps the brain healthy.

reply to post by tamusan


I'm glad you shared your experience. No harm there. I'd only stress that you actually have a medical condition that requires some form of medication for management in the first place.

Had you not been taking Depakote all these years, whatever it was in your brain causing seizures or misfires or what-have-you could have led you down a very bad way of health and accidents.

Perhaps the Depakote improved your school-work and other things indirectly, because your underlying condition was treated/managed and allowed you to function at your 'normal' level.

The brain is a complicated machine and no one has the same experiences of these drugs - I'm glad it has worked for you!

reply to post by gardener


Valproic acid is found in Valerian.

A few drops of Valerian tincture in a cup of hot tea and a really good book will do wonders for your brain.

I had brain fog all the time (not helped by sleep deprivation) until I started taking lecithin daily; we used to get a lot more in our diets when people ate eggs every day. Taking the lecithin pills, which provide choline, a building block for acetylcholine or the 'wakey-analytical' brain chemical, made a world of difference. Felt like I had access to 20 IQ points that were there but unused for years.

Add in pregnenolone if you're over 30 or so years old; it's a neurosteroid and necessary for word finding abilities, short and long term memory, that 'tip of the tongue' feeling that gets to be very annoying and then worrisome as you age.

Add in some high levels of Vitamin D3 or abundant sun exposure and a good diet with small amounts of meat and large amounts of fruits, vegetables and nuts and you may see a huge difference. Best of all, you don't need a doctor's okay on any of them and there's no side effects.

I take this stuff too for bipolar and BPD, it does help me focus a little better so im not complaining

OccamsRazor04


No, they haven't. It's considered impossible to learn perfect pitch if you do not do so as a child. Your brain alters to the point it is no longer capable of it.

In fact I believe the OP even addressed this. If not .. it's not possible. That's why this is significant.

The terminology is somewhat vague so here:

Perfect Pitch.ucsf.edu

However,
while scientists disagree on much to do with
AP, they do agree that teaching methods aren’t
important, and that it is impossible to acquire
genuine AP as an adult.

Many studies shows
that it is not the type of musical training a
person has, but starting early enough which
counts – ideally, before the age of six. They
also agree that no one can have AP without a
musical education of some sort. This doesn’t
mean that there aren’t people for whom
pitches resonate in a certain way – but, without
being able to identify them as certain notes,
this isn’t AP. Here the consensus ends, and
the debate is one of nature versus nurture –
whether AP is innate in us all, or an inalterable
genetic predisposition

So that's why we have an actual market for people trying to sell "AP learning courses" etc.
There are many conflicting claims in this topic so that's why I stick with rule of thumb (pills only as last resort).

The paper is pretty interesting, will add a little tidbit:

A champion for genetic predisposition is
Dr Jane Gitschier, a geneticist at the University
of California Genetics of Absolute Pitch Study

The opposing view that AP is innate in us
all is led by the English music psychologist
Professor Diana Deutsch. The results of her
studies suggest a strong link between AP and
speaking a tone language: a language where the
same words take on a totally different meaning
depending on how they are enunciated –
Mandarin, for example.

This relates to what a poster said above about Language usage:

The fluent tone language speakers
scored an average of over 90 per cent, compared
to under 30 per cent among the Caucasians
and under 40 per cent for East Asians who
were non-fluent in a tone language. For
Deutsch, this proves a link between AP and
language that outweighs both genetics and
age of musical training

And then they add criticism of this study and it goes back and forth, nature vs nurture.
Anyways, I don't think there is exactly a complete consensus yet on this topic.

kalunom
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

I'd happily include myself in your 'club' - if you have one.

I would never try to dissuade anyone from taking a medication, provided they felt they had a real need for it (and many do, especially in cases of epilepsy) and had proper guidance and knowledge of what they were taking.

What, to me, should be a last resort has become just the opposite. Have a problem? Oh, here's a pill for that.

Yeah that's my approach as well.
Medications are last resorts, and shouldn't be abused.

I agree with keeping medications around even if dangerous, as long as they are shown to benefit in some dire situation.
However it's obvious a ton of these medications going around now are dangerous placebos being pushed to relieve Psychosomatic issues.

Some physical diseases are believed to have a mental component derived from the stresses and strains of everyday living. This is the case, for example, of lower back pain and high blood pressure, which appear to be partly related to stresses in everyday life.[5]

FALSE, sensationalistic headlines
FALSE statements

What the hell are these threads turning into, like the thread about hair in your bread. This isn't the Today Show, We're supposed to "Deny Ignorance" not make a sideshow circus act of "Sensationalized Drama." This isn't Warner Bros. Studio.

VPA is the sister of Lithium. It is an anticonvulsant for epileptics, They're also mood stabilizers similar to their brothers Lamictal and Gabapentin. They can also help migraines and be potentially suitable for bipolar disorder and Schizophrenia alone or with combinations of other medications.

This drug won't make you turn into a "LIMITLESS SUPERHUMAN" in any way shape or form. Medications don't work that way. And they work very differently for each individual.

Truth

It is shown to increase learning performance in respect to the learning of "music" in adults, because of It's effect on sensory tasks.
...So, in other words, It "might" help you learn to play the piano more efficiently over time than you would have without the med. Or maybe not. It doesn't create new brain synapses for 1 and for 2 it will not cause you to have the learning capabilities of a 7 year old. So no, It's not going to make you smarter. It "can" increase your auditory and visual perceptions "IF" your brain even responds to the chemicals in this fashion in the first place.

Absolute Pitch
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

The study also says that there has been no result in any of the case studies where an adult acquired AP of that of a human before age 7 whom acquired AP.

This is on [Page 3] - bottom left

You can go to [Page 6] to understand the studies which led to this sensationalized lie



So if you want to take a drug that you don't "need" for any "medical condition" that has a laundry list of side effects just so you can roll the dice and maybe get to play Fredric Chopin's Black keys etude in G flat semi-moderately more efficiently than you otherwise would have over time sitting in your basement fumbling about without the ingestion of Depakote, then, by all means! It would be moronic.

This should go to Ludicrous Online Lies bin mainly because of the False Title and False Claims

I've supported a few people on Depakote with brain injuries and whilst it's difficult to say how much of their behaviour is purely down to the medication, I have seen some of the side effects such as weight gain and tremors which I wouldn't appreciate if I took it myself. Seems like a bit of a far-fetched thing to try unless it's for epilepsy or bi-polar. Plus how would you get it on prescription unless you had those two things?

reply to post by gardener


Did this company study the side-effects..? We do not want something like this to happen after awhile..

Depakote basically

Valproic Acid

Interesting .. but no thanks will do without medications far too many adverse side effects to them .. and prefer to have a clear head at all times rather than spend life in a drug induced stupor..

I take this medicine for my Epilepsy.




It has utterly destroyed my long-term memory, damaged my short-term memory and it has made me put on about twenty kilograms of extra body weight.



It's a horrible drug that has ruined my brain completely.




This news is utter garbage. I think it is the last death-throes to market a dying drug that they need to sell. It's old and out-dated. So many better medicines out there for people who really need it.

Give it to the public, and soon they won't even remember their own names.