Scepticism and the UFO

This has been long standing since the beginning of the phenomena, and widely referred to as unidentified flying objects.

These events, and sightings of UFOs, have been wide spread throughout the world, through the modern era, and have not been short of controversy. In the beginning, the sceptics and officialdom stated that these sightings and events where the result of misidentifications, such as swamp gas, weather balloons, mass hallucinations, natural phenomena of various origins, and of course downright lying by the witnesses.

Now of course things have changed somewhat, depending on how you look at it. This in itself has draw backs, since various personalities get involved, some holding on to their opinion and trying to prove a point, based upon their experiences, or the way they interpret any experience or evidence that is presented to them. This in turn produces very little in terms of research value to the phenomena.

It cannot now be said that the UFO phenomena doesn’t exist, official reports have confirmed this from the United Kingdom, United States, Brazil, Spain, France, Australia, Denmark and Russia. Yet years passed these sightings from an official point of view did “not exist”, which is now contradicted by the documented evidence.

There is also the fact that classified documents still remain classified concerning the UFO, be it in this well known term, or other terms such as Unknown Tracks which are classified “SECRET REL US & CAN”. Operation Reports – 3 concerning UFOs are classified according to a FOIA official letter from the Office of Secretary of Defense, seen by this individual dated from the 1990s, and were considered “extremely sensitive” by the OSD.

The scepticism now for the most part seems to be not concerning the existence of the phenomena, but to the origins of the UFO. Some of which are now considered to be the result of classified aerial devices and aircraft, be it air breathing or space bound. I have noticed those that are not witnesses to these events seem to judge and draw conclusions without actually being involved in the event or events; this in turn creates problems, since the reliability of the witnesses can be brought into question, regardless of whether in other relative normal events that would not normally be the case.

There has been scepticism in almost all other branches of science, especially if something is introduced which does not fit the main stream view or understanding. This can slow down progress, and indeed has in some cases. Open mindedness is required in studying this phenomena but this may not be just based upon ones education, but experience and personality, and that’s where the problems can lie, and so it continues to this day.

Maybe one day the UFO phenomena will be incontrovertible, as to reveal it for what it really and truthfully is. But it seems that is a long way off at this stage.

Its just my opinion, that some of this skepticism has to be denial. There are too many cases where everything as it relates to ufo's that cannot be explained in any other way, so as to be the possibility that we are dealing with extraterrestrials, not from our solar system.

One of the big problem about ufologi is the way it's presented for the people who wasn't there, it's the lack of evidence to prove it.

With pretty much any big case with a story of touch down on ground, small people walking around, descriptions like portholes and antennas, look of the UFO and bright light beams, there is absolutly no photografic evidence.

The other way around, when there is photografic evidence the story is missing and the pictures are blury or pixelated, far far away in the distance so you can't make anything out of what you are looking at.

Then there is the change of the look in pictures or description of the look by witnesses as time has gone by since the first report from a metal looking UFO in the 60'es/70'es till a spec of light in various collors in now time.

There are so many things that dosn't make a true sighting an interesting piece of ufologi cause of these missing things and it makes it hard to believe.

Then you have to include all the fake videos or pic's taken through vindows, manmade objects or natural phenomenas and people blinded by believe that makes up a lie, who seek their five minutes of fame.

Not to mention when the government or military gets in to it, it gets made in to Top Secret and sadly those stories mostly origin in the US.

reply to post by Frankinpillow


No-one has ever denied that people see things in the sky they cannot identify, nor has anyone ever stated that any and all sightings have a single, simple explanation. The problem is that UFO sightings tend to be completely subjective. Even when there is radar or photographic evidence, there is a level of interpretation required. Ultimately, UFOlogy is a psychological science.

reply to post by DJW001


exactly right! Anything that goes bump in the night is either a bigfoot or a ghost.Nobody notices the tree in the wind and wonder if its alive and kicking,or a balloon in the daylight,but if its dark,its a ufo!

reply to post by Frankinpillow


I congratulate you on a well thought out and presented thread
Now down to business

There is also the fact that classified documents still remain classified concerning the UFO

This is true but the possibility is that they remain classified due to national security issues involving past operations or sensitive black projects , although we can't rule out the involvement of off world visitors in these cases the suspicion has to be the former rather than the latter.

The scepticism now for the most part seems to be not concerning the existence of the phenomena, but to the origins of the UFO.

And surely that must be the default position , after all these years we still don't have one shred of evidence that points to off world involvement , as much as we may want to believe in Alien piloted craft visiting us (believe me I do) that belief is nothing without evidence to back it up , since I decided to stop believing and look for evidence to support the ETH I have found nothing but snakes and charlatans all either trying to sell something or promote a belief for their own nefarious ends , the truth is out there but it isn't pretty.

Open mindedness is required in studying this phenomena

So true , unfortunately a large part the UFO communities idea of open mindedness is closed to anything that doesn't involve Aliens , the default position tends to be it's Alien until proved otherwise.

Maybe one day the UFO phenomena will be incontrovertible, as to reveal it for what it really and truthfully is.

The UFO phenomena has many causes some of them (minus swamp gas) you already mentioned , I think what we all want is Alien Spaceships and that won't be incontrovertible until one either lands or crashes in a populated area and we have Aliens that we can poke a stick at ...event then some will call it a False Flag

Just my opinion as a former believer take it for what it's worth

I believe that you're not open minded when your objective is to discredit someone's claims. Skepticism on the other hand, is just a healthy reaction.

To quote Stanton Freedman:

There is difference between skeptics and debunkers.
A skeptic says, "maybe. lets check the facts."
A debunker says,"I know what the answer is. These things can't possibly be real." If the first explanation doesn't work, lets try a 2nd one. If that doesn't work, lets try a 3rd one.
Skepticism we need. Debunking, we do not need.

For me I don't actually don't know what fence I sit on, I want to believe and I do believe, but I also don't believe half the stuff out there.

They'll always will be ("noisy negativists") on this subject.

reply to post by gortex

although we can't rule out the involvement of off world visitors in these cases the suspicion has to be the former rather than the latter.

This is spot on, because all it takes out is just 1 report to be de-classified as being off worldly, everything changes.

My believe and i think a lot of others can agree, the proff or evidence is not found in newer time, it's found in the ancient.

Gods pretty much all origin from the sky, depictions in paintings, rockcarvings, cave paintings, ancients structures and truely wierd storys of what have happened in the past but it's all highly speculativ and imposible to prove unnless we change our wiev from religion to something more extraterrestial and start looking more deep.

It's being done but still very far from bringing absolut proff and hard to conclude as we wasn't there.

reply to post by skyblueworld

This is spot on, because all it takes out is just 1 report to be de-classified as being off worldly, everything changes.

What makes you think that a government investigator's opinion is any better than anyone else's? Back in the 1950's UFOs were often officially classified as 'possibly extra-terrestrial in nature, but no threat to national security.'

DJW001
reply to post by skyblueworld

 

This is spot on, because all it takes out is just 1 report to be de-classified as being off worldly, everything changes.

What makes you think that a government investigator's opinion is any better than anyone else's? Back in the 1950's UFOs were often officially classified as 'possibly extra-terrestrial in nature, but no threat to national security.'

All depends on the investigator, we've had plenty of credible people come forward but to no avail.

People will believe in Bigfoot when a hunter drags a Body into the tag station for inspection. Aliens and UFOs are no different, a little nugget of steel no one can identify is not proof of aliens. When a UFO lands on the White House lawn people will believe.

reply to post by Frankinpillow

As you know, I once possessed a printout, 3 decades ago, that could have been thee proof, of ufos-as-aliens-coming-here,
from Out There. But (long complicated story short) it was decided as a hoaxed report, and was taken away from me. Also, it was unavailable from a foia appeal later in the early '90's. I am left in my life with these options. A coworkers' gross mischief, an Operation, or it was,..real. One Ufologist once called me "stupid" because as a then-youngster, fresh from home-to-enlistment, and NOT savvy about all that stuff, (how could I?) and NOT savvy about being -in trouble-, especially with Agents, for Godsake, I didn't do what a more heroic brave seasoned Ufologist would have done, for Truth, Justice, and the Cosmic way.

So: I presently often admonish against automatically equating ufos (and I have seen them,) with incoming space ships, but is that the right thing for me to do? I think.....it is, but I would very much love to hear others' views on that question of mine. And I don't want to be seen as a useful dupe, promoting someone's social experiment operation. They -knew- I was into ufos. We need only to research about Agent Doty and Kirtland AFB, for example, and for starters, in that regard.
Am I being smart, or in denial?
Or even under mind control?
I do wonder about this. Thanks, all.

Good thread, Frankin.

reply to post by misschareesee2


If you did not make three photocopies of the document, mail two of the copies to trustworthy friends with instructions to open the envelopes if they heard of your death and then place the original in a safety deposit box, you were being foolish. If you can recall the document's cover, you might be able to trace it. But then, this is a bit off topic.

reply to post by DJW001

But then, this is a bit off topic

I disagree, as people in here are posting about ufo origins and skepticism versus whats real.
I had 'skyblueworld's post in mind when I posted.

This is spot on, because all it takes out is just 1 report to be de-classified as being off worldly, everything changes.

misschareesee2
reply to post by DJW001

 

But then, this is a bit off topic

I disagree, as people in here are posting about ufo origins and skepticism versus whats real.

No, I mean how to trace your document.

DJW001
reply to post by Frankinpillow

 

The problem is that UFO sightings tend to be completely subjective. Even when there is radar or photographic evidence, there is a level of interpretation required. Ultimately, UFOlogy is a psychological science.

This^^^
Though I'm not so sure about the science part. lol.

The problem is that UFO sightings tend to be completely subjective. Even when there is radar or photographic evidence, there is a level of interpretation required.

Hm, food for thought! So even if ufos are in a highly classified military or alphabet agency communication report, as well, then?.......

misschareesee2

The problem is that UFO sightings tend to be completely subjective. Even when there is radar or photographic evidence, there is a level of interpretation required.

Hm, food for thought! So even if ufos are in a highly classified military or alphabet agency communication report, as well, then?.......

UFOs turn up in government reports all the time. Any aircraft that does not have a transponder or identify itself when signaled is a UFO.

reply to post by Frankinpillow


Sorry, but resorting to justify the use of the word "skepticism" to cover why UFOs are, supposedly, still not an official concern of governments is giving science and government a break that they do not deserve. From an armchair theory point of view, most certainly that would be the case in musing if ETs exist. But from the practical, rational and real view of the affair, when one crashes into your back yard, most definitely not the approach a nation would that that had recently fought a long war less than two years earlier and was currently engaged in a political struggle with communism.

Since the day when the UFO crashed near Roswell, the chief operating word for how to deal with UFOs was the one-word term "denial." We've always heard "No, no, no," and never from science and government the word "maybe" followed with "We'll earnestly look into this and give you the people a solid explanation." It has always been a flat out denial hedged with a few statistically insignificant contrary data points which were allowed to exist because they were assumed to be unknown natural phenomena. The word "skepticism" begs for a sincere reasonable study of the situation. Barring that not being feasible for several legitimate reasons, the only recourse was to continue the tactic of denial.

The US Army Air Corps were the first ones to get their hands on the Roswell material. Their hunt for other confirmations went from there and the early correspondence between generals, government officials and high-placed scientists bear that out. Quite true, they wanted all of the data that they could get on this remarkable and seriously viewed affront to the might and dominance of the US. It was a typical effort of military intelligence to better determine how they should react, but that is no reason to invoke the use of skepticism to explain why after half a century the US government and science can still claim today that they still don't know exactly what they should think about the UFO phenomena.