Destroying the Ego?

Many people who study eastern philosophy will talk about the ego and desire as being something ugly that should be destroyed.

Desires creates attachment and these things bring sorrow say Buddhists.

This is one reason I could never really identify with Buddhism, it seams like they wish to remove all desire because they are worried about it bringing sorrow, so they are ultimately trying to hide from sorrow rather then except it as being part of the deal which to me always seamed a bit cowardly.

The day Buddha sat under that tree and said I am going to reach enlightenment now ore die trying was that not his desire/ego speaking?

In truth if you had no desire/Ego you would have no reason to live or even move, the only reason you move is because you desire to move.

Whats all this stupidity about trying to achieve a state of mind in which you are desire less...you would be useless, plus the paradox that you would first have to desire to be desire less

"That is the ego speaking, the part of you that says I must have this, I must have that"

Spiritual people often repeat a similar phrase to the above but they forget that the part of them that desires mystical experiences, wisdom, enlightenment is also the self. Is it common for people to speak without thinking, to repeat things because they sound good?

Maybe we should actually grow the ego, which sounds terrible at first but think about it

reply to post by LUXUS


I think the idea is more about attachment to material possessions...

In that sorrow should not come at the loss of said things...

They are not what is needed, and ultimately you can't take them with you...

reply to post by LUXUS


I think you don't fully understand eastern philosophy. At first i didn't understand it either so i read more and more about the subject (ego) and now i understand it. I suggest reading it some more because i think u missed out a piece of the puzzle.

If you want to grow your ego go out and start a multi-billion dollar business then become the CEO. Big shot CEO's have the biggest ego's of them all so make as much money as you can then start stealing money from others through shady deals and practices.

More money = bigger ego

Bigger ego = less money for everyone else

Less money for everyone else = poverty

Poverty = suffering

I don't think building the ego is a very good idea in practice. We see where people building their ego's has gotten us in today's world, we'd be even worse off if others felt they should do the same IMHO.

I destroyed my Ego but the damn thing keeps growing back. How depressing that is.

Akragon
reply to post by LUXUS

 

I think the idea is more about attachment to material possessions...

In that sorrow should not come at the loss of said things...

They are not what is needed, and ultimately you can't take them with you...

There is not always an emphasis put on material things, some say desire for experiences, wants are to be avoided too and I have heard "spiritual" gurus talk about how they are completely without desires. I heard one guru talk about how love is a human animal thing and he personally had not that feeling suggesting he was above such things.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


But you have jumped on the bandwagon I was talking about, how about I grow a HUGE ego but its for self development!

Its what you direct the ego towards which decides if its positive or negative.

Annunak1
reply to post by LUXUS

 

I think you don't fully understand eastern philosophy. At first i didn't understand it either so i read more and more about the subject (ego) and now i understand it. I suggest reading it some more because i think u missed out a piece of the puzzle.

I understand the philosophy fully, to them the ego is an illusion, its the thing that makes you say this is me. They believe if they destroy this "I" they will become one with the creator.

Therefore the "I" or ego is to be destroyed and this means all desires must be destroyed also. As I said this leads to a paradox because it is desire, ego, the "me" that makes a person seek enlightenment in the first place.

LUXUS

Akragon
reply to post by LUXUS

 

I think the idea is more about attachment to material possessions...

In that sorrow should not come at the loss of said things...

They are not what is needed, and ultimately you can't take them with you...

There is not always an emphasis put on material things, some say desire for experiences, wants are to be avoided too and I have heard "spiritual" gurus talk about how they are completely without desires. I heard one guru talk about how love is a human animal thing and he personally had not that feeling suggesting he was above such things.

I have also heard much about so called "spiritual guru's" so to speak...

Im more of the opinion that they desire a following...

I personally seek no man/womans advice on spiritual matters...

All that is needed is within...

LUXUS

Annunak1
reply to post by LUXUS

 

I think you don't fully understand eastern philosophy. At first i didn't understand it either so i read more and more about the subject (ego) and now i understand it. I suggest reading it some more because i think u missed out a piece of the puzzle.

I understand the philosophy fully, to them the ego is an illusion, its the thing that makes you say this is me. They believe if they destroy this "I" they will become one with the creator.

Therefore the "I" or ego is to be destroyed and this means all desires must be destroyed also. As I said this leads to a paradox because it is desire, ego, the "me" that makes a person seek enlightenment in the first place.

Its not desire or arrogance only, if you are indisicive, and hold anxiety or insecurity regarding your decision making; ego has a hold upon this. Ego is the format to negate your innate fears; compensate for, (I am am not really participating in this observable action; ego quashes the potencial realization FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT or self preservation of your psyche). The bigger the Ego=the greater the fear.
It is self compensating.

Egos are merely another way of abstracting ourselves. We say we have egos, souls, consciousnesses etc etc etc, but it is still just us talking about ourselves. All of these are artifacts, creations of ourselves to describe ourselves. To destroy one is to simply stop using the word.

Great OP.

Annunak1
reply to post by LUXUS

 

I think you don't fully understand eastern philosophy. At first i didn't understand it either so i read more and more about the subject (ego) and now i understand it. I suggest reading it some more because i think u missed out a piece of the puzzle.

You used the word "I" six times in that post. That, and you fed your own ego with that post by publicly declaring his ignorance without teaching him (or anyone else who might read that post) what it was that you believe he misunderstood.

His point is actually very valid. Desire (ego) cannot be arbitrarily segmented into good and bad desires, or material and nonmaterial desires. In the human brain, the response to want is a very specific brain state, and the subject of that want is not determinant. If you want power (nonmaterial) then how is this less enlightened than wanting food (material) to stay alive?

Also, if these enlightened guru masters (with their acolytes and expense accounts and the sort of trappings that one can easily see when one checks out their sites and video channels) have killed their egos, then who's to blame for all that ego-driven marketing and merchandizing that surrounds them all the time?

I spent 20 years chasing the music business after getting out of the military, and to be honest, most of those enlightened people who've "killed off their egos" could teach a thing or two about passive-aggressive self entitlement to those wannabe rock stars that are trying to survive getting their egos kicked down their own throats on a daily basis by everyone from their band mates to their friends to their families to those indifferent scenesters they call their following. You want to experience ego death, try getting your pals to waste an hour on a Tuesday night attending your free show, so that you can get enough headcount to make it past "new band night". If you have any ego at all after that, then you're probably a psychopath and all you are is ego.

Hell, those psycho salesman that rule the music business are pikers compared to the kind of ego-drenched anomaly that actually feels compelled to declare that he's got no desires or wants of any kind as a result of his own wisdom and the level of enlightenment he's achieved. The dichotomy of declaring oneself to have achieved ego-death is stunning on its face.

The Ego is like a horse - it needs to be tamed, constantly fed, and needs its metaphoric
carrot as to endure out the lessons and patterns/thought forms that higher entities
(us) need in another 'Selfs'.

To me, the Ego is a necessary 'evil' that bring contrast for us to see the lessons into unity.

RP

Funny how people are eager to find other dimensions of the universe but are so reluctant to discover another dimension of their own self.

In eastern traditions the ego is what stops us to be really, permanently happy; therefore the idea of "destroying" ( even if this is not the correct term) the ego. But ego (in buddhism for example) is not the same as what we, westerns, understand by ego. We think of ego as a good measure of self-importance, self-promotion, pride, arrogance and so on, then automatically destroying the ego will mean a life of humility, self denial and insignificance as an individual. Who wouldn't be reluctant to that?
But...In the eastern traditions "ego" means the whole range of things that we think they define us. My life, my past, my experience, my taste, my family, my ideas, my faith, my-my-my everything. Every experience, thought, concept, the whole world is filtered through this idea of "me". If you think about this a little you'll come to understand that we report everything to this me. In a flash we categorize things as good or bad, pleasant or repulsive, comfortable or fearful according to this idea of ourselves; we never see them as another persons sees them or as they really are because of this filter. We live in the bubble of me.

And this bubble (or ego) is quite fragile, it must be protected and nurtured all the time. Also we're always in a race to get the things we want and avoid those we don't want, to protect what we already have (and what we'll inevitably lose somehow), we are always in contests with other egos, we're always hurt when this ego is hurt. We are the slaves of this ego. It's like working for a big company, their friends are our friends, their enemies become our personal enemies, we always look for an opportunity to promote and make profits for this company, we give our time and energy and soul, we become so involved that we forget how to exists and how define ourselves without this job.

The same with ego. What the eastern traditions are telling us is that we are so much more than this demanding and never satisfied ego, but we forgot. Removing the ego will only give us a chance to see who we really are, another dimension of ourselves. Is it possible? Of course it is, but you must be at least curious enough to be willing to try it.

Also desire. What is so great about desire that we are so afraid to lose it? It's like being addicted to something, we always always need something, there is never enough, there is never peace in our mind because of desire. And how many times do we really get what we desire? And how much happiness it gives us? Few moments, maybe days at most and then here we go again chasing another desire, another need, years and lifetimes of chasing the horizon.

But getting rid of our desires didn't mean that we'll be empty, useless, dull like a blank TV? Fortunately no. In no way. But that's the other dimension of ourselves that must be experienced, it cannot be rationalized. It's the promise of getting rid of ego, being effortlessly happy and at peace all the time, not only for some few fleeting moments.

The eastern philosophies are quite deep and vast and require more time to be understood in the correct way, and if it's possible a good master. And all those instant TV shows gurus are not helping to remove the confusion, but only to add to it.

My best advice is if you're not attracted to the eastern ideas of removing the ego, do not pursue it. It will only create a conflict in yourself which is exactly the opposite of their intention. But know that many, many people found lasting happiness in those practices. And also know that not everyone talking about ego and eastern religions really know what they are talking about.

WhiteHat


Is it possible? Of course it is, but you must be at least curious enough to be willing to try it.

Also desire. What is so great about desire that we are so afraid to lose it? It's like being addicted to something, we always always need something, there is never enough, there is never peace in our mind because of desire. And how many times do we really get what we desire?

I see so you desire to lose your desire ie you desire to sit down and meditate to lose your desire....if you never had that desire in the first place you probably would not be sitting down to meditate. Or are you saying it is something other then desire that makes you want to rid yourself of desire?

LUXUS
Many people who study eastern philosophy will talk about the ego and desire as being something ugly that should be destroyed.

Desires creates attachment and these things bring sorrow say Buddhists.

This is one reason I could never really identify with Buddhism, it seams like they wish to remove all desire because they are worried about it bringing sorrow, so they are ultimately trying to hide from sorrow rather then except it as being part of the deal which to me always seamed a bit cowardly.

The day Buddha sat under that tree and said I am going to reach enlightenment now ore die trying was that not his desire/ego speaking?

In truth if you had no desire/Ego you would have no reason to live or even move, the only reason you move is because you desire to move.

Whats all this stupidity about trying to achieve a state of mind in which you are desire less...you would be useless, plus the paradox that you would first have to desire to be desire less

"That is the ego speaking, the part of you that says I must have this, I must have that"

Spiritual people often repeat a similar phrase to the above but they forget that the part of them that desires mystical experiences, wisdom, enlightenment is also the self. Is it common for people to speak without thinking, to repeat things because they sound good?

Maybe we should actually grow the ego, which sounds terrible at first but think about it

edit on 9-2-2014 by LUXUS because: (no reason given)

The trick is not to stop wishing, is to like your life as it is, TODAY, RIGHT NOW.
The moment is good.
Above the up and downs, we must like our lives.
If we are able to do this, we are backed by a feeling of joy and peace.

So Buddhists don't say to stop wanting or wishing, what they say is that we should be happy in the moment, with whatever we have got. I can be happy with my life and still wish to go ahead in my job for example. The wish to conquer, to acquire, to go ahead, to create, to transform, there is no negativity in them unless we create it with our own negative judgment.

So, the thing is, we have to like our lives in the now, we don't have to stop wishing and wanting, we just have to be able to like our lives, no matter what happened, whats happening or what might happen.

reply to post by LUXUS


The ego is not ugly

the go just is, and what is meant by ego from the perspective of one that knows, is an amalgam of phenomena arising, its correlation to your body and senses, the perception of those things being good/bad, pleasurable/painful or neither, and the fabrications the mind makes about those things working in tandem with the full conscious experience of the individual which then helps set course corrections to bring about a perceived 'best' life scenario.

The suffering arises from ignorance of what brings forth desire or aversion.

It is not about destroying the ego, it is about transcending it and no longer bending your knee to it

there is a difference between desire and happiness, you find your happiness by fulfilling your desires, but do you not see that there needs to be a hunger, a thirst in this equation for it to play out?

What about being happy from the center of your being, without the stress of desire and attachment, and finding joy in whatever it is you move out to contemplate/relate/experience as a human.

desire to transcend suffering is a good desire, addiction to the ease of being one with breath is a good addiction

these are the steps in the stairs, the rungs in the ladder in which one must grasp for before reaching the plateau above, and taking flight into the endless sky far above desire/aversion/delusion and suffering.

When one becomes whole, there is no one part which one identifies with, but rather sees all the archetypes, including the buddha/angels/supreme as something which consciousness chooses through karma(actions and reactions, the long and hidden game)

you are truly the captain of your own voyage

Buddha's teachings was centered on disillusionment. Fighting a mental mirage of yourself (Ego) is not disillusionment, it's the exact opposite. Budhha spoke of this in the, Endless, circle of samsara.

EGO , is not a dirty word .

A song by skyhooks an Australian band , the song came out in the 70'S , don't know how to get it here from utube.
If someone else can that would be good . cheers 1%

A copy with the words would be good

LUXUS

WhiteHat


Is it possible? Of course it is, but you must be at least curious enough to be willing to try it.

Also desire. What is so great about desire that we are so afraid to lose it? It's like being addicted to something, we always always need something, there is never enough, there is never peace in our mind because of desire. And how many times do we really get what we desire?

I see so you desire to lose your desire ie you desire to sit down and meditate to lose your desire....if you never had that desire in the first place you probably would not be sitting down to meditate. Or are you saying it is something other then desire that makes you want to rid yourself of desire?

This is not an intellectual riddle, a sort of smart trick for the mind, is not a paradox. Yes, it is a desire, the ultimate desire to achieve a goal, the only one worth pursuing. And the moment you achieved it, that desire will also dissolve, will be left behind like a vehicle that brought you to destination. Every desire disappear the moment you fulfill it, isn't it? The only difference is that after this one you'll be free of any other desire. You're out of the rat race.

This is the only thing that bothered you in this topic?