‘Can’t make this up’! NC NAACP tells voter ID protesters to bring photo ID to Moral March [pic

ID... pffft.. here in cali they are so lazy they just mail them in....

ketsuko
You can't do anything else in this country without a valid ID, even get arrested, but heaven forbid we ask anyone to bring one when they vote ...

Oh, irony, it burns sometimes.

Granted, we do need photo IDs for many things. I'm pretty sure you can get arrested in NC without a photo ID, however.

It just makes it easier on you if you have one...

Again. The list did not say someone would not be allowed to protest if they didn't have a photo ID or that you could be challenged and kicked out if you didn't produce it, it merely recommended that they bring one as something wise to have. That is a significant difference.

The point being made here is that it was "ironic" that they were recommending people bring a photo ID to the protest as if that were equivalent to a law proclaiming that they MUST have the ID in order to vote.

Requiring a valid ID is only a small part of a larger picture in NC. There have been several changes people are unhappy about, that seem to them to have no other purpose than to keep certain segments of the population from being able to participate as easily at the polls. One can argue whether or not these new rules will actually have this outcome.

For example: 1) Removal of Sunday voting = this is a common day for the African American community to vote after church when they share rides and make a big deal out of assisting people to get to the polls, 2) extreme limits on early voting = it seems more Democrats vote early than Republicans and the Republican legislature seems to have done this simply in the hope of fewer Democratic votes, 3) the effort to keep college students from voting in NC if they have a "home" (i.e. parental) address listed that is not in NC = again, college students are generally more on the liberal side in NC, so this seems to be on the same level as the other two, 4) Districts have been redrawn to make sure people who now have power, keep power for a long time to come (and yes, both sides do this when they can)...

So, in light of all of the points above, people in NC are protesting the Voter ID law and, well, a whole laundry list of other things they don't like.

BOTH sides have said extreme things about the new voting laws in several states. PolitiFact has a good article on it that shows the spin on both sides.
PolitiFact: Fact-Checking Voter Suppression Year End Report

peace,
AB

AboveBoard

ketsuko
You can't do anything else in this country without a valid ID, even get arrested, but heaven forbid we ask anyone to bring one when they vote ...

Oh, irony, it burns sometimes.

Granted, we do need photo IDs for many things. I'm pretty sure you can get arrested in NC without a photo ID, however.

It just makes it easier on you if you have one...

Again. The list did not say someone would not be allowed to protest if they didn't have a photo ID or that you could be challenged and kicked out if you didn't produce it, it merely recommended that they bring one as something wise to have. That is a significant difference.

The point being made here is that it was "ironic" that they were recommending people bring a photo ID to the protest as if that were equivalent to a law proclaiming that they MUST have the ID in order to vote.

Requiring a valid ID is only a small part of a larger picture in NC. There have been several changes people are unhappy about, that seem to them to have no other purpose than to keep certain segments of the population from being able to participate as easily at the polls. One can argue whether or not these new rules will actually have this outcome.

For example: 1) Removal of Sunday voting = this is a common day for the African American community to vote after church when they share rides and make a big deal out of assisting people to get to the polls, 2) extreme limits on early voting = it seems more Democrats vote early than Republicans and the Republican legislature seems to have done this simply in the hope of fewer Democratic votes, 3) the effort to keep college students from voting in NC if they have a "home" (i.e. parental) address listed that is not in NC = again, college students are generally more on the liberal side in NC, so this seems to be on the same level as the other two, 4) Districts have been redrawn to make sure people who now have power, keep power for a long time to come (and yes, both sides do this when they can)...

So, in light of all of the points above, people in NC are protesting the Voter ID law and, well, a whole laundry list of other things they don't like.

BOTH sides have said extreme things about the new voting laws in several states. PolitiFact has a good article on it that shows the spin on both sides.
PolitiFact: Fact-Checking Voter Suppression Year End Report

peace,
AB

well done, abby. Buster should start hanging around you more.

A solid common sense explanation trumps cheap political spin any day of the week. Thank you.

It's actually not a bad idea to bring along some form of photo ID if you're going to be participating in a protest or march.

ProfessorChaos
One thing I have learned by pointing this article out to people is this:

Liberals are completely and utterly unable to recognize or appreciate irony, especially when it applies to themselves.

Yeah, they don't take kindly to ridicule or even worse, pointing out the gaping holes in the logic of their positions. They (Liberals or as they like to call themselves, Progressives) have paper thin skin when it comes to such things. I once made a slight jab at one of my friends on FB and they totally got all bent out of shape. I said it was so cold outside (-10 F) that Democratic Politicians, for a change, were seen with their hands in their own pockets, rather than someone else's , boy did that open up the floodgates.

Can't take a joke, criticism or honest debate of ideas. Their idea of "open dialogue" is like on MSNBC. Have Six panelists on, of which 3 are actual Democratic spokespeople, 2 "Progressive" journalists and one supposed Republican who I have never heard of and can't even speak well about the topic at hand. I swear MSNBC intentionally picks "weak" people from the Republican side to keep themselves away from real debate. Anytime someone good comes on, the Liberals get into "diverting the topic" mode till the next TV Break. That person is never seen on MSNBC again.

muse7
It's actually not a bad idea to bring along some form of photo ID if you're going to be participating in a protest or march.

.......or???????


maybe something like VOTING!?!?!?!?!?!?

Not bashing you. Michigan has had you have to show an ID to Vote for probably at least a couple decades now..... it's not a huge deal. Really, who over the age of 18, doesn't keep their ID on them when out and about?????

AboveBoard

For example: 1) Removal of Sunday voting = this is a common day for the African American community to vote after church when they share rides and make a big deal out of assisting people to get to the polls, 2) extreme limits on early voting = it seems more Democrats vote early than Republicans and the Republican legislature seems to have done this simply in the hope of fewer Democratic votes, 3) the effort to keep college students from voting in NC if they have a "home" (i.e. parental) address listed that is not in NC = again, college students are generally more on the liberal side in NC, so this seems to be on the same level as the other two, 4) Districts have been redrawn to make sure people who now have power, keep power for a long time to come (and yes, both sides do this when they can)...
peace,
AB

Just some comments, Nice post btw,

1. Some places have Sunday voting? I have NEVER seen that up here in Michigan. Seems a strange concept to me, voting on a weekend. If that was a regional voting thing, it CAN be changed via legislation. It would seem that Sunday voting was similar in a way to Gerrymanding, getting a desired base of voter turnout, I guess in this case, the African-American Church vote.

2. Early Voting. My direct second hand experience of this is the following. I had a friend who ran for the local County office. He had an over 11% lead in the actual walk up vote at polling stations. He lost by over 9% because of the absentee vote. I'm not saying he didn't lose fair and square, but he implied that the "machine" behind the other politician (incumbent and backed by power brokers) knew how to make a huge impact with the absentee vote, one that was not really those old people actually voting. Just saying......... what things "seem" might not hold up to the scrutiny of a spotlight on it.

3. I don't think Non-Residents ie; those with permanent residences in other States, should be allowed to vote in their temporary State, that includes Snowbirds as well as Students. I would make an exception for Military. Theoretically they can vote in two States elections at the same time. Doesn't seem very "Democratic" to me to have one person's vote count twice.

4. Gerrymanding happens with both parties, I find it deplorable, but it's a pretty equal opportunity party thing. The party in power does things to make it stay in power. Nothing new there, been happening since almost the founding of this Country.

pavil

AboveBoard

For example: 1) Removal of Sunday voting = this is a common day for the African American community to vote after church when they share rides and make a big deal out of assisting people to get to the polls, 2) extreme limits on early voting = it seems more Democrats vote early than Republicans and the Republican legislature seems to have done this simply in the hope of fewer Democratic votes, 3) the effort to keep college students from voting in NC if they have a "home" (i.e. parental) address listed that is not in NC = again, college students are generally more on the liberal side in NC, so this seems to be on the same level as the other two, 4) Districts have been redrawn to make sure people who now have power, keep power for a long time to come (and yes, both sides do this when they can)...
peace,
AB

Just some comments, Nice post btw,

1. Some places have Sunday voting? I have NEVER seen that up here in Michigan. Seems a strange concept to me, voting on a weekend. If that was a regional voting thing, it CAN be changed via legislation. It would seem that Sunday voting was similar in a way to Gerrymanding, getting a desired base of voter turnout, I guess in this case, the African-American Church vote.

2. Early Voting. My direct second hand experience of this is the following. I had a friend who ran for the local County office. He had an over 11% lead in the actual walk up vote at polling stations. He lost by over 9% because of the absentee vote. I'm not saying he didn't lose fair and square, but he implied that the "machine" behind the other politician (incumbent and backed by power brokers) knew how to make a huge impact with the absentee vote, one that was not really those old people actually voting. Just saying......... what things "seem" might not hold up to the scrutiny of a spotlight on it.

3. I don't think Non-Residents ie; those with permanent residences in other States, should be allowed to vote in their temporary State, that includes Snowbirds as well as Students. I would make an exception for Military. Theoretically they can vote in two States elections at the same time. Doesn't seem very "Democratic" to me to have one person's vote count twice.

4. Gerrymanding happens with both parties, I find it deplorable, but it's a pretty equal opportunity party thing. The party in power does things to make it stay in power. Nothing new there, been happening since almost the founding of this Country.

edit on 9-2-2014 by pavil because: (no reason given)

Hello pavil,

Thank you for the post-compliment. I appreciate your comments. So, here are some thoughts in return...

#1. Sunday Voting may be more of a Southern tradition, then. In Florida, it was recently dubbed "Souls to the Polls" and this movement brought a significant number of people, especially African-American and Hispanic-descent people, to the polls. Politifact: Souls to the Polls

Removal of Sunday voting (as the last day of Early Voting before an election) is something being done in more than just NC. In the African-American community, Sunday voting is a celebration of hard-won voting rights that echos back to the time of Bloody Sunday, during the Selma Marches of Alabama in the civil rights period. There is a lot of history that has been tied into Sunday voting. Wiki - Selma Marches & Bloody Sunday


#2. I don't know anything about the local election politics you mention. Are you saying the vote was rigged somehow? Sorry - I'm not sure I understood what you meant... Thanks!

In any case, early and absentee voting in NC have shown to be utilized more by Democrats and liberal Independents in NC. The removal of early voting days is seen as a political move against the party not currently power, by the party currently in power.



#3. Some clarification on the college student issue - First off, just like anyone else, students can only register and vote once, in one state. And here is more info ( more than anyone wants, probably! lol!):

Last month, North Carolina General Assembly approved a sweeping piece of legislation that requires voters to show a state-issued photo ID or a U.S. passport at the polls. Out-of-state licenses will be accepted only if the voter registered in North Carolina less than 90 days prior to the election....

The legislation doesn’t strictly prevent any students or residents from voting in any given election. Out-of-state students who wish to vote in North Carolina may do so after obtaining a state-issued driver’s license or a voter identification card, which will be issued for free at any N.C. Department of Motor Vehicles after Jan. 1, 2016, when the voter ID law takes effect.
According to Husser, it may be difficult for some college students to prove residency in the state, especially if they live on campus.
“Electric and utility bills with your address on them is one of the easiest ways to prove residency, but a lot of students have theirs handled by their schools,” he said.
- See more at: The Pendulum - Elon College News (in NC)

There are also legal challenges happening such as the following:

Three cases are scheduled to be heard by the state Board of Elections on Tuesday afternoon.

The cases on the state board’s agenda include:

• Montravias King, an Elizabeth City State University student disqualified from seeking a city council seat, is fighting a ruling by the Republican-controlled Pasquotank County Board of Elections. In an August decision, the eastern North Carolina county’s board upheld a challenge by Richard “Pete” Gilbert, the county’s Republican Party chairman, claiming King could not use his on-campus dorm address to establish residency in a county where he had been registered to vote for four years.

Clare Barnett, the attorney from the Durham-based Southern Coalition for Social Justice representing King, argues that there is a long-established right of college students to vote in their college communities. Under equal protection principles of the Constitution, Barnett argues, college students cannot be treated differently from other voters.

___ [EDIT] ____

In Winston-Salem, the Republican who heads the Forsyth County elections board had proposed to close an early voting site at Winston-Salem State University. But after much publicity about his proposal, the county elections board chairman decided to delay any decision until next year after more study.

Since 2008 – when young voters were among the Democrats biggest supporters, with the under-30 set endorsing then-candidate Barack Obama 2-1 – student identification cards have become a focus for Republicans pushing for voter ID laws.

Pennsylvania, Kansas, Wisconsin and Texas and other states have tried to limit, or ban, the use of student IDs as voter identification. In Florida, lawmakers tried to limit “third party” organizations, including student groups, from registering new voters.

Under the elections law revisions in North Carolina, student IDs are not among the list of acceptable identification cards.

Read more here: www.newsobserver.com...=cpy" target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">News Observer: NC Elections Board to hear cases that touch on student voting rights

#4. Yes. Gerrymandering is an age-old tactic by both parties and it is deplorable, but apparently politically effective. Hardball politics are certainly nothing new, and both sides do their utmost to secure advantage.

Anyway. Thanks again for reading my post and commenting! Your thoughts/response was most appreciated...

peace,
AB

So what if someone joins in the fun from off the street and is open carrying, or is carrying concealed?

muse7
It's actually not a bad idea to bring along some form of photo ID if you're going to be participating in a protest or march.

It seems like a GOOD idea not to bring one if participating in a protest. If they are going to arrest me, I make them pay hundred of dollars worth of labor to process me. I would tell my family ahead of time that if I go missing, I'll be at the police station in the solitary cell for a while because I'll be refusing to process or cooperate in any way whatsoever for as long as I could stand.

So far I've only made it a few days without any cooperation of any kind, except standing in line for food. Maybe next time I'll have them force-feed me for extra costs for them. My crime was that when an officer made a questionably aggressive move towards me I gave him the universal sign of surrender. That sign of surrender is what police officers call "assaulting a police officer", so they then rough you up a bit and lock you up for a while in America, land of the free.

Give them hell and stand your ground. But be polite about it LOL. Never talk down to your opponent and they'll stay your opponent instead of being your enemy.

reply to post by beezzer


Why is this so hilarious? Don't most/all states have laws that require you to show the cops ID if they request it? As they are protesting, they are likely to get confronted by police, if not possibly arrested. So it makes perfect sense to tell people to bring ID with them.

Apparently NC is trying to enact some voter ID law, which may require an additional photo ID card of voter registration -- which seems stupid if you have other valid forms of ID, i.e. a driver's license, passport or other such items. I didn't see anywhere in the protest organization notes say that people who don't bring such ID will be refused from marching.

Yet the usual group of suspects is chiming in, along with the OP, on how ironic/hilarious it is that the protest organizers are asking or suggesting people bring ID. What a bunch Dittoheads.

reply to post by AboveBoard


Just to clarify, they shortened the early voting period by one week, so didn't eliminate Sunday voting, they just reduced the number of Sunday voting days from two to one.

I always find it amusing when they find defendants for these things - they have time to contact lawyers and give depositions, yet don't have time to go to the DMV?

And to give a deposition pretty much requires an ID - so, basically, you must provide ID to give a sworn deposition that you don't have ID - how does *that* work??

Also, the Department of Justice is, of course, filing a lawsuit against the bill. Will there come a day, I wonder, when the Department of Justice files a lawsuit against itself?

MrInquisitive
reply to post by beezzer

 

Why is this so hilarious? Don't most/all states have laws that require you to show the cops ID if they request it? As they are protesting, they are likely to get confronted by police, if not possibly arrested. So it makes perfect sense to tell people to bring ID with them.

Apparently NC is trying to enact some voter ID law, which may require an additional photo ID card of voter registration -- which seems stupid if you have other valid forms of ID, i.e. a driver's license, passport or other such items. I didn't see anywhere in the protest organization notes say that people who don't bring such ID will be refused from marching.

Yet the usual group of suspects is chiming in, along with the OP, on how ironic/hilarious it is that the protest organizers are asking or suggesting people bring ID. What a bunch Dittoheads.

Funny how you manage to insult other posters without bothering to actually understand the requirements of the law itself. They aren't requiring *another* form of id, they're requiring ID - and your examples are all good to go.

To wit, to vote, you need to provide a photo id, (unless you have a religion objection to having a photo taken), of *one* of the following types:

NC Drivers License
NC Non-Operator's Identification Card
US Passport
Military ID
Veteran's Affairs ID
Federal Tribal Enrollment Card
State Tribal Enrollment Card
Drivers license from any other state or DC, if within 90 days of registering

And if you don't have id, your vote is a provisional ballot, which you can redeem by returning and showing id.

Not really any stricter than the protest rules - by the way, you can't join the protest unless you're registered.

So, yes, it's ironical and hypocritical to demand registration and photo id's to participate in a protest against a voting law that requires you to register and present a photo id.

reply to post by beezzer


Yes...Bring Photo ID in case of arrest...and?

Are you implying that acts of civil disobedience and associated risk of arrest...is the same as voting?

Perhaps in dictatorships...but not here.

squittles
reply to post by AboveBoard

 

Just to clarify, they shortened the early voting period by one week, so didn't eliminate Sunday voting, they just reduced the number of Sunday voting days from two to one.

I always find it amusing when they find defendants for these things - they have time to contact lawyers and give depositions, yet don't have time to go to the DMV?

And to give a deposition pretty much requires an ID - so, basically, you must provide ID to give a sworn deposition that you don't have ID - how does *that* work??

Also, the Department of Justice is, of course, filing a lawsuit against the bill. Will there come a day, I wonder, when the Department of Justice files a lawsuit against itself?

To clarify further:

Yes. They have eliminated the first day of Sunday voting. They have also eliminated Same-Day Voter Registration, meaning you could register to vote and vote on the same day. Here are some statistics as to why these, and other aspects of the new voter ID laws/new voting rules are being challenged.

African Americans were 22 percent of registered voters in 2012, but they cast 34 percent of the Same-Day Registration ballots for new voters, 33 percent of the ballots cast in the first week of the Early Voting, 30 percent of the out-of-precinct ballots cast on Election Day, and 43% percent of the ballots cast on the now eliminated first Sunday of Early Voting. They are 34 percent of the registered voters who do not appear to have a DMV license or NC photo ID, but only 9 percent of the voters who use mail-in absentee ballots, the one method the new law expands.

Read more here: www.newsobserver.com...=cpy

Regarding Voter Fraud...

Out of the 197 million votes cast for federal candidates between 2002 and 2005, only 40 voters were indicted for voter fraud, according to a Department of Justice study outlined during a 2006 Congressional hearing. Only 26 of those cases, or about .00000013 percent of the votes cast, resulted in convictions or guilty pleas.

ABC News on Voter Fraud: It's Real but Rare...

In the argument of Voter Fraud, there is more voter fraud in absentee ballots, and absentee voting has been expanded in NC. This poses a logical problem to me: IF the legislature wants to eliminate voter fraud THEN the voting laws will reflect changes that are designed to eliminate voter fraud. Restricting absentee voting then would make sense. They have expanded it and made it easier to do. Hmmm. Who uses Absentee Ballots the most in NC? Republicans do. On the other hand, absentee ballots are the ones most likely to NOT get counted due to errors, etc.


Personally, I'm in favor of making voting easy for every citizen who wants to participate in the process. Democrat AND Republican AND Independents and whomever else gets on board.

As to the case I quoted of the young man seeking a City Council seat, he was registered to vote in NC for four years, then was told that the college dorm address he used to establish residency in NC was no longer valid for that purpose and thus prevented from running for office.

He legally challenged this decision, which was his right to do. He won his case, incidentally.

Sometimes laws need to be challenged if they are unfair. Luckily we have a system where we can at least attempt to do that.

Thanks for reading my post, and for your response.

peace,
AB

Thanks, AB

No Problem, its good to have back and forth.

On Sunday voting, while it may be a Southern thing and a Civil Rights heritage thing, to me it seems to cater towards a specific group. It doesn't seem very fair to me make voting easier for just one particular voting bloc. I might have misunderstood "Sunday Voting" it's not the actual election voting at the polls, just the final day of absentee voting? Unclear on that. Again, any type of voting regulations that favors/assists one group/party/race over another, just doesn't seem to be the voting ideal everyone seems to want.

On Absentee voting, Yes my friend implied quite emphatically that the Power Brokers, mainly unions, could "get out the Absentee vote" for whatever candidate they wanted. They first approached my friend about "helping" him and when he rebuffed them, they swung their support to the other candidate. The vote swing was about a 20% swing. It sounded to him like they could basically guarantee him the election if he "played nice" with them. To me, that sounds like someone has figured out how to use absentee voting to manipulate elections.

Out of State Residents voting in an Election: While I would think you could only vote in one State, I don't know for sure and I seriously doubt that States cross reference each other for voting. I seen nothing wrong with requiring a Valid State ID or Driver's License to vote in a State's elections. I suspect there is quite a bit of abuse of people voting in places where they are not permanent residents. I know for a fact that two friend of mine are still on the Michigan voter rolls even though one is deceased for 3 years and the other has resided in FL for at least the last 7 years. I see their names when I present my ID to vote on the rolls. It's certainly not a foolproof system, that's for sure.

reply to post by beezzer


Ah the not so logical train of thought for Progressives and their buddies.

Kind of like the "Stomp out violence" PSAs.

reply to post by AboveBoard


Thank you for your rationality. It's soooooo easy to look at a nuanced issue and think there is a simple explanation or solution. Most people are too lazy to think things through reasonably and rationally. Thanks for adding that to this conversation.

reply to post by beezzer


There is no contradiction here. The same people who can be denied the vote based on photo ID problems can also be taken into police custody for identification even if they are not being charged with anything. It would be irresponsible and potentially counterproductive for those trying to stop the government from loopholing citizens out of their rights to encourage the affected citizens to put themselves in an even more compromised position.

I don't get why some users are calling this hypocrisy