NO ground to stand on. Would like some fresh opinions!

Girls are an intersting creature. He's my problem / dilema..etc.

I met the girl of my dreams. She's amazing, and everything i could ever want. She was scared to get involved, due to her own insecurities, even though she knew i was "the one." She led me along for a long time, unable to "jump in," which she did.

She had a friend that was close to her, in which she hooked up with twice (before me) but only wanted to be friends, she claimed. When i came into the picture, he started showering her in gifts, love notes, trying to get her to be with him and not me, texts, etc. At first, i addressed it, advised her to take care of it on her own. She promised she would...over and over again. I was patient up until it (again) continued to happen.

I've been very good about my gut instincts, i've almost never been wrong with them. I'm 28, i've been married, i understand quite a bit. Where i drew the line was when she lied to me about hanging out with him at the beach. I called her out on it, in which she tried to cover it up, and eventually, then, admitted it.

Long story short. I've searched her phone, and found messages. love notes. texts. all from him to her, and the biggest problem is she allowed it to happen. She didnt really acknowledge it however OPENLY entertained it. I broke up with her twice because of that..she even chose her friendship with him over me, in an act of defiance.

The real problem is this. She took care of it, wrote the guy off. And things have been fine. That was six-seven months ago. The lying portion of it, the months of deception, the constant reassurance that it would be resolved, only to find out it wasnt...honestly, ATS, messed me up. I've never been insecure. And now? Totally insecure. Almost 30 years old and left destroyed by a girl, and finding it hard to pick up the pieces. Anytime that i blame that situation as the reason for my doubts or any present aprehensiveness or fears, its immediately thrown back in my face. Has it been long enough? Its like she knows...but avoids it. Maybe because of guilt.

She's a sweet girl, loving, wants to be with me, get married...etc. However, like most girls (no offense ladies of ATS!) she's very proud, agressive, bullheaded, and when we fight or argue, i have no grounds. I cannot use her attitude as a reason to react. I cannot stand my ground because i'm always wrong, or have no evidence, or am misunderstanding...(but somehow i'm the greatest thing ever?) how can someone ALWAYS be wrong? I'm pretty hard on myself...but there's times where its just, enough is enough. And when that's the case...it just seems like it leads to short fuses.

The question is, is this:

Do i just suck it up? Toughen up and deal? Trust is such a hard thing...and i feel bad that it's taken so long for me to even make a little progress. I fell head over heals for this girl. Like, fairytale status. But the hurt and the rippled effect of it just caused the "fairytale" to diminish.

What are your thoughts? I just want to feel better in my feelings, ya know? That i'm not crazier than the average.

Am i wrong? Am i weak? Am i flawed? Am i stuck? Again, love isnt an issue, on either part. But the hurt remains. The distrust remains. Believe me, i want to be better. For both myself and for her. I strive for it.

What's a good way to restablish trust? Internally and externally?

(BTW: why do girls want a strong man, only to b*tch about wanting sensitivity. Then they get sensitivity and just b*tch about wanting strength? haha)


Life is chaos. Love is wierd.

UFO!

reply to post by Lynx1102


Lynxx - if you are always wrong then something's wrong with her. She never admits to being wrong, making mistakes, etc? Yet she played the game with the other guy and she knew exactly what she was doing.

I'm leery of her just based on what you've said. She may be genuinely sorry for what she did but the fact that she can't argue in a positive way says tons about her maturity level.

I wouldn't rush into anything with her. 6-8 months is a blip of time and in my mind she needs to prove herself more than she has already. I'm not saying she's on trial or she can never be forgiven, but I do see signs of narcissm here. Perhaps look up that term and see if she fits the bill on that one. And if she does then let the warning bells ring loud and clear and you will have a better idea of who you are dealing with.

I do wish you all the best. If she's the one she better be best for YOU or it won't work. Trust is a hard emotion to build up again especially with the same person. I've been there and done that and although the trust issue with a specified matter never occured again it did keep occuring in other areas of life and in the end well... you just have resentment and hurt and did huge damage.

Sounds like what most older people have been through.

Trust is a funny thing....it makes you do funny stuff.

You know how much time a day I worry about my wife...Zero

In this case ego is not your Amigo.

You will get it right next time...

reply to post by Lynx1102


Sounds like she was doing some shady stuff man, if you think that she is 100% done with that then stick around. If you have a shadow of a doubt then I don't see how it is wroth it.
Can you trust her, if you cant it will never work. Can't force trust, it has to be natural

Ive never had a successful relationship so take what I say lightly....

Ive been on both ends of that...one where she was flirting...we got through it...i later found out she was doing it again....then another time i was with a girl i didnt care for much and i was flirting around...she confronted me...i told her id stop only to later find a girl liked better. Such is the nature of relationships in a day where meeting/communicating with someone is so easy through todays tech.

My answer is this...if you wake up in the morning and worry about what she is doing...cut her off...cause all that stress will ruin it anyway....if you are insecure about her doing stuff...cut it off...it may or may not be legit but if you feel that all day..itll crush you.

In my first scenario when I found the girl flirting I would much time pondering it...every time she took her phone with her into a new room I questioned what she was doing...If she tabbed out of a window on the computer when I walked by I would think..why did she do that....itll never end man...so if you are do those things id move on to save you the headache! Good luck either way.

reply to post by Lynx1102


The thing that strikes me is your confusion.
You actually answered all your own questions without even realizing it.

Look buddy....life is simple,women can be complicated,simplify things to suit your needs.

Thats all i can tell you.
Good luck.

Here's where it is, you got to keep it real . OK? You got to make her scream. Knock the bottom out ta that thang. I mean, hit it like you've never hit before. That's why she's with this other dude. He's killin it bro. Sorry, but face it. All you gotta do is step up to it. No problem. You got this. Easy for you cause you love this girl. He's a fu$kin rube next to you....give her passion like she's never had it before. I know because I've been there, Petrachian bullsh%t lost me.my first love...I didn't keep it real, didn't touch her just adored her....mistake. Good luck. Worse case scenario? Fu$& her man, you don't need a Lyon, cheaten little hoowah....to be what? Mother of yo kids? Really?

reply to post by Lynx1102


I feel your pain. I am currently, and have been previously, married, and have experienced the worst betrayal. I won't go into all of that since this is about you.
I have NO worries with my current wife. If I were you, based on what you've stated, move on. There's WAY too much water under that bridge. She's betrayed your trust once, and she's capable of it again.

People do not change, they only learn better ways to hide their transgressions.

Just my two cents, good luck.

reply to post by Lynx1102


Based on my own experience, trust is everything. The fact that neither of the two of you are able to trust each other, where you check her phone etc, and she's lying to you is not good. a healthy relationship is based on mutual trust, to not have that feeling that something is wrong, etc. The fact that you follow your gut feeling is very good, you can always depend on it. But what does your gut say about her?
Love Grief is not dangerous, everyone experiences it and it makes you stronger and wiser. Even if you are almost 30 years, you are not fully trained in the love life. There is always something you can learn. BUT it is wise of you to try to marry again? Why not take time for yourself, to be young?
Continue to follow your instinct, you will be in the right place at the right time.
Just like to put in a word for trust, so I had a girlfriend a few years back. She lied quite a bit, and she was also cheating on me.
Hope this helps

Lynx1102
Girls are an intersting creature. He's my problem / dilema..etc.

I met the girl of my dreams. She's amazing, and everything i could ever want. She was scared to get involved, due to her own insecurities, even though she knew i was "the one." She led me along for a long time, unable to "jump in," which she did.

She had a friend that was close to her, in which she hooked up with twice (before me) but only wanted to be friends, she claimed. When i came into the picture, he started showering her in gifts, love notes, trying to get her to be with him and not me, texts, etc. At first, i addressed it, advised her to take care of it on her own. She promised she would...over and over again. I was patient up until it (again) continued to happen.

I've been very good about my gut instincts, i've almost never been wrong with them. I'm 28, i've been married, i understand quite a bit. Where i drew the line was when she lied to me about hanging out with him at the beach. I called her out on it, in which she tried to cover it up, and eventually, then, admitted it.

Long story short. I've searched her phone, and found messages. love notes. texts. all from him to her, and the biggest problem is she allowed it to happen. She didnt really acknowledge it however OPENLY entertained it. I broke up with her twice because of that..she even chose her friendship with him over me, in an act of defiance.

The real problem is this. She took care of it, wrote the guy off. And things have been fine. That was six-seven months ago. The lying portion of it, the months of deception, the constant reassurance that it would be resolved, only to find out it wasnt...honestly, ATS, messed me up. I've never been insecure. And now? Totally insecure. Almost 30 years old and left destroyed by a girl, and finding it hard to pick up the pieces. Anytime that i blame that situation as the reason for my doubts or any present aprehensiveness or fears, its immediately thrown back in my face. Has it been long enough? Its like she knows...but avoids it. Maybe because of guilt.

She's a sweet girl, loving, wants to be with me, get married...etc. However, like most girls (no offense ladies of ATS!) she's very proud, agressive, bullheaded, and when we fight or argue, i have no grounds. I cannot use her attitude as a reason to react. I cannot stand my ground because i'm always wrong, or have no evidence, or am misunderstanding...(but somehow i'm the greatest thing ever?) how can someone ALWAYS be wrong? I'm pretty hard on myself...but there's times where its just, enough is enough. And when that's the case...it just seems like it leads to short fuses.

The question is, is this:

Do i just suck it up? Toughen up and deal? Trust is such a hard thing...and i feel bad that it's taken so long for me to even make a little progress. I fell head over heals for this girl. Like, fairytale status. But the hurt and the rippled effect of it just caused the "fairytale" to diminish.

What are your thoughts? I just want to feel better in my feelings, ya know? That i'm not crazier than the average.

Am i wrong? Am i weak? Am i flawed? Am i stuck? Again, love isnt an issue, on either part. But the hurt remains. The distrust remains. Believe me, i want to be better. For both myself and for her. I strive for it.

What's a good way to restablish trust? Internally and externally?

(BTW: why do girls want a strong man, only to b*tch about wanting sensitivity. Then they get sensitivity and just b*tch about wanting strength? haha)


Life is chaos. Love is wierd.

UFO!

HA! I can't imagine why I am on some discussion board, consistently dishing out opinions on love. Nonetheless, I'm here. Hmm...

Well, Love, that dirty b!t@h. Always starts pulling hair and smashing your face in the porcelain bowl.

You know, trust is such a tender and fragile thing. Hard to earn it, easy to smash it. But what we do need to remember is that none of us can be 'on' point all the time. None of us flawless.
The ideal would be that anytime we feel hurtful or otherwise conflicting things, we go to our partner with it. Then our partner understands and helps us work it out.

It doesn't always work out that way, even if we trust someone. Sometimes we may want to figure it out in our own heads.
I think I draw definite lines when there is cheating involved. And you KNOW there is cheating. What we know and what we think we know are two different things entirely. But it is often times the things we think we know that cause us so much suffering.

It doesn't sound like a grave problem. It sounds like there is just some communication that needs to happen in a gut spilling way.
Not sure, of course, as I am not in the relationship.

Of course, the part about feeling as if you are always wrong, not sure how much of that is real or simply perceived.
Not knowing either of you or your personalities, one can only guess to say that this is often the complaint men have about women.
Men, we are not your mothers. Even if we mother you at times. Please repeat after me. When a woman loves, she mothers.

No, I don't think you need to suck it up. I do think you need to stick with it. It sounds like growing pains as opposed to anything so serious you need to sacrifice your mental health over.

We do want a strong man. We also want a sensitive one. Can't you just be both?



I mean, learn each others moods, habits, ways, and needs. You'll know when you should be strong or sensitive. Ideally, you are both wrapped up in one good man.

Don't get mental about this. It only seems true and open communication, even about your feelings of never being right, would be some good medicine.

As I said in another thread:

Rule #1 - The girl is always right, even when she isn't.

There are no other rules.

reply to post by Lynx1102


I think you need to get your head out of the past.

What I mean by that is, when you would argue with your lady before, it would all have come down to her being unable to commit properly to the relationship, because she always had Crutchy McCrutcherton in the background, which was clearly wrong. However, that whole time the issue of this other fellow, would have eclipsed all other issues between you (as it pretty much would). What that has caused, is masking of other underlying differences between you, that would have been obvious, had it not been for the gigantic elephant in the room, that her "friend" represented.

The trouble with this is, now you guys will be arguing about other things. It is perfectly possible that you have some issues that your lady felt too hang dog to bring you to task about, when she had this man hanging around her. It is possible that now this issue has been resolved, you are realising that you may need to do some work on yourself in order to be able to maintain the relationship.

If you feel like you have no leg to stand on, there are three main things to consider.

First:

If it is TRUE that you have no leg to stand on, then perhaps it is time for you to evaluate yourself and your circumstances a little. If you are really saying that in recent arguments, you have been approaching the situation from a totally unsupportable point of veiw, then why would you argue? Why would you decide to have a confrontational attitude, or a defensive attitude, when in a position of having no basis for argument? What will that achieve?

Second:

Are you capable of addressing the causes of these confrontations, in order to make your lives together more harmonious? If these arguments are coming about because you are defending an indefensible position, are you able to stand back from situations in the moment, and see the futility of argument?

Third:

If you are sure that your reactions to your ladies words are not appropriate to the situation, then you need to think about ways to train yourself out of these responses, because otherwise it will cause the relationship that you have, the positive elements of it, to suffer, wither and die. That would be bloody sad. The other side of that is if you are NOT capable of changing your responses to the flashpoints of these arguments, should you continue this relationship, knowing that all that will happen if you continue, is that you will make the woman you love, very, very sad?

All of that assumes that you really have not got a leg to stand on when in a debate with your woman over any given matter. I think you really need to look at this situation carefully before moving forward. What I would say is that the solution can be boiled down to this: Do you love her enough to be honest with yourself about your behavior, and change it if it really is not appropriate? Do you love YOURSELF enough to do that?

I wish you the best of luck in figuring that out.

AliceBleachWhite

As I said in another thread:

Rule #1 - The girl is always right, even when she isn't.

There are no other rules.

Except when she's the cheater. To cheat on someone, and then demand trust is utterly hypocritical.

That's like a convicted bank robber getting upset over people questioning his background when he applies for a Teller's position.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


I'll retort.
As was said in that "other thread" by someone else,thats the typical woman response.
I am right,screw logic,reason and accountability.

I sure hope she is joking and if thats the case...i apologize.

DrumsRfun
reply to post by ProfessorChaos

 

I'll retort.
As was said in that "other thread" by someone else,thats the typical woman response.
I am right,screw logic,reason and accountability.

I sure hope she is joking and if thats the case...i apologize.

I have a feeling she was joking, but I stand by my point. By the way, my remarks apply to men or women, it doesn't matter what the sex of the cheater is.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


Sarcasm is hard to spot on the net and i do agree with you,a cheater is a cheater and it doesn't matter the sex of the person.
Trust is trust.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


and my reply:



What's this other guy got to offer the one at home doesn't?
Maybe that's important? Hmmm.

Further, is it more important to live without the girl, or with?

What happens if you get a job in another state and want her to move with you?
(might be a ploy to get distance between her and this other fellow)

What would brings more happiness? Life with her, or the thought of life without her?

Further, last I checked, slavery was abolished, the girl is committing no crimes, so that comparison is bunk, and if I'm not mistaken, no one has taken any legal VOWS of fidelity.

Look, every lasting relationship I know of is based in trust as much if not more than love.

If you and she cannot reach a place where you can trust one another, then you are pretty much done and shouldn't mess this up even worse by trying to make it permanent.

I think your fears are perfectly valid, and if you can't feel secure enough in the relationship to trust her, then there is something that hasn't been fully addressed no matter how much you might have talked about it before. If she doesn't want to go there again, well, then she's not interested enough in your needs to help do what it takes to make this thing stronger.

There can be strength and sensitivity, that's a great mix!

Sometimes women form bonds with people and don't want to give up that bond for another, even if they are in love or love the other.

Sometimes being pushy and demanding just pushes people further away, interactions are sensitive, maybe she has a platonic friendship with this guy or emotional history or maybe you are pushing the wrong buttons and driving her there. There are countless possibilities.

You could ask her but maybe that would be a further wedge. I know it isn't nice feeling like some guy is trying owning feelings and expecting to explain everything they do say and feel, those type of men suck and don't deserve trust or commitment.

If there's natural love and chemistry between people there should be the ability to talk about things and a certain amount of trust.

Lynx1102

Long story short. I've searched her phone, and found messages. love notes. texts. all from him to her, and the biggest problem is she allowed it to happen. She didnt really acknowledge it however OPENLY entertained it. I broke up with her twice because of that..she even chose her friendship with him over me, in an act of defiance.

She's a sweet girl, loving, wants to be with me, get married...etc. However, like most girls (no offense ladies of ATS!) she's very proud, agressive, bullheaded, and when we fight or argue, i have no grounds. I cannot use her attitude as a reason to react. I cannot stand my ground because i'm always wrong, or have no evidence, or am misunderstanding...(but somehow i'm the greatest thing ever?) how can someone ALWAYS be wrong? I'm pretty hard on myself...but there's times where its just, enough is enough. And when that's the case...it just seems like it leads to short fuses.

Alright you have to make this choice first, are you forgiving her or not?
If you are choosing to forgive then when your doubts creep in it is on you to remind yourself that you have forgiven that and drop it right there. Second if you are snooping through her phone, purse, jewelry box and underwear drawer, you need to stop doing that. There are just some places you do not go for any reason. Your relationship has went through some pretty significant damage and there are no quick fixes. I would highly recommend the two of you getting some couples counseling. Any wedding plans need to be put on hold until you are back to having a healthy relationship.

(BTW: why do girls want a strong man, only to b*tch about wanting sensitivity. Then they get sensitivity and just b*tch about wanting strength? haha)

Because we want a strong man that knows when to be sensitive. I am not even gonna sugar coat it for you. The odds of this particular relationship surviving at this point with both of your current attitudes aren't very good.