Duality and how to solve it

Itisnowagain

new_here
When we SEE black, it is because all colors of the visible spectrum (which = white) are absorbed. There is nothing left to reflect out to our eyes.
When we see yellow, all other colors except yellow are absorbed.

What are you actually seeing? Are you actually seeing black?

We are seeing what is incoming, and yes we named it "black."

And then the mind takes it all apart and makes a story about where and how the colour got there.
When you see black - do you not see black?

Ahh, I see your point.

Also, when does it 'become black'? When it first hits our retina, or after the brain has taken it apart and analyzed it?

Geez, somebody help me out of this rabbit hole, LoL...

reply to post by Itisnowagain


We have a saying here in Glasgow...

'Did yer mammy no tell yae...I want disnae get'

Forgive the slang.

new_here
Also, when does it 'become black'? When it first hits our retina, or after the brain has taken it apart and analyzed it?

'Retina' and 'brain' are concepts (ideas appearing) - can you see 'retina' or 'brain' or is it just black that is seen?

Itisnowagain
reply to post by new_here

 

If you are in a room looking at a computer screen are you outside flying a kite?
If you are looking at a cat - is it a dog?

edit on 5-2-2014 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

First Question: I can be, if imagination counts. (Side Note: The brain uses the same method to store imagination data, as it does to store the information assembled from our sensory input. Not sure how, on retrieval, it remembers whether 'real' or 'imagined.' I do know that memories can be planted. Even quite by accident. Happened once when I was a child. We brought home a baby bunny, and were afraid our dad would be mad b/c we hadn't asked, so we told him our poodle came home with something in her mouth, and thank God she didn't kill it! Well, when his folks came for the holidays, I nearly choked on a glass of milk when he pointed out the kitchen window and told the story in front of all of us, about how he "...looked out the window and there came Claudine with a bunny in her mouth... darndest thing I ever saw!"

2nd Question: On the face of it... no you're crazy, lol... But I'll play: Yes, the atoms are simply arranged differently but the content remains the same?

new_here
First Question: I can be, if imagination counts.

If you see 'what is not happening' then that is why there is confusion. Living in two places is the cause of suffering - it fragments one - it divides. Duality of mind.

If you are in a room looking at a computer screen are you outside flying a kite?
If you are looking at a cat - is it a dog?

Itisnowagain

new_here
Also, when does it 'become black'? When it first hits our retina, or after the brain has taken it apart and analyzed it?

'Retina' and 'brain' are concepts (ideas appearing) - can you see 'retina' or 'brain' or is it just black that is seen?

It's all semantics, my dear. I'm bouncing off of this quote of yours:

And then the mind takes it all apart and makes a story about where and how the colour got there.

It would seem that at the conclusion of 'the story' after being taken apart, that we pronounce it 'black.' It is nothing to us until 'the story' is finished.

new_here
On the face of it... no you're crazy, lol...

I see what here is to see - you see what isn't here - and you call me crazy???

Itisnowagain

new_here
First Question: I can be, if imagination counts.

If you see 'what is not happening' then that is why there is confusion. Living in two places is the cause of suffering - it fragments one - it divides. Duality of mind.

I can't meet you here, sorry. Throw out imagination and you have no books to read, songs to sing, no new recipes to cook, heck, no computer to type on (and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.) You become a receiver of input but you don't synthesize it into new thoughts and ideas. Sure, some people use their imaginations to wreak havoc on others, but the beauty and joy of creating. So there is a duality to it, but lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater. It's all about choices and focus. And Duality is a little limiting... in my mind, it is more of a Plurality. Infinite combinations. Love at the helm steers towards peace and serenity.

Itisnowagain

new_here
On the face of it... no you're crazy, lol...

I see what here is to see - you see what isn't here - and you call me crazy???

You saw the lol, right? Means "humor, haha"
I meant... "at first I couldn't see a connection that cat = dog." And then I could.
I wasn't literally calling you crazy. You know that right?

and you call me crazy???

Are you implying that I am? Or are we both kidding around? Can't tell.

you see what isn't here

So how exactly do you know what I see? You perceive what I see based on what I typed which may or may not have been based on what I actually perceive. (It is, but you can't know that for sure.)

And... How do you know if what you see, is?

Aphorism

I would wager that if we had three arms, three eyes, three nostrils, three ears and so forth, that we would see the world in a "trinitarian" sort of way.

Good point!
Though many religions and philosophies focus on a trinity structure already.

Personally, I see almost everything as if on a continuum- which could be broken down into as many pieces or levels as one wants.
This focus upon the two farthest extremes seems to be rather crude or simplistic at times. Without thinking about it, I know I tend to make an automatic assumption about people who perceive only the extreme opposites- that they are lacking much in sensitivity, unable to pick up on nuance and subtility.

Even ones level of sensitivity can lie anywhere along the continuum- but I often wonder if a change in one base structure of belief or perception of reality can expand or reduce that?

Like, if you take someone with a focus on extremes- say someone concerned with good and evil, black or white....and introduce them and teach them a religion of world view that is "trinitarian", would that cause them to open their awareness to a wider variation of sensitivity in all things? To perceiving black, white and gray?

It hit me that many religions seem to have "levels" of knowledge or teaching, and they may start with something very simplistic and dual- then as one studies further, it expands to a trinity, and then later to very numerous angels, saints, gods, energies, aspects of self.

My first thought as I saw the title of this thread again this morning was- what does the author mean by "solve" it?

The immediate answer that arose within me was- because each soul, each mind, has the urge and innate draw to expand-
To become more aware, to perceive and experience more. To expand beyond the self-other separation and get closer to wholeness again.

I suspect that many religions offer various types of exercises for slowly expanding mind- in the same way one would slowly work on stretching muscles of the body, the mind too, needs progressive work.

new_here
I meant... "at first I couldn't see a connection that cat = dog." And then I could.

I didn't say cat=dog. What connection do you see?

I said, if you are looking at a cat is it a dog?

Ultimately without duality, you wouldn't notice your own existence. You wouldn't be able to perceive anything, and there would be no Universe to perceive. In all perceivable planes of existence, duality is there. The astral realm, is duality..it keeps going even beyond that. For as long as you experience the Universe, duality is there to make it happen.

I don't get whats so hard to understand about duality , duality exists simply so we can experience something.

for eg, if there as no hot or cold there would not be the concept of temperature. you wouldn't even know there was such a thing as temperature as the whole concept simply wouldn't exist.

Without duality we would live in a would of absoluteness, not relativity and hence could not experience.

Another way of looking at it if we were all in a permanent state of joy, then no one could actually experience the feeling of joy as there would be nothing else but joy, by experiencing pain/fear/suffering (whatever you wish to call the alternative), we can now experience joy as a real thing.

Duality is what happens when Nothing defines itself by being none of it.

if you are looking at a cat is it a dog?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Neither and both.
See what I did there?

It seemed to me your "answers" were to simply take the middle ground and not be decisive about anything. In other words, don't waste energy by thinking too much, as it will only make you unhappy. Makes sense, I guess, if you ascribe to the old saying, "ignorance is bliss".

Everything, I mean EVERYTHING, you eluded to is a purely subjective matter. The way in which you experience reality is yours and yours ALONE. What you and I perceive when experiencing what we both identify as the color red, for instance, may be entirely different things. We just call it the same thing. What makes you happy may make me sad. There is nothing absolute here. Good/bad, divine/evil, right/wrong; these are all concepts of our own design, and NOT universal constants/truths.

As humans, we will never be in a position to experience the universe objectively. We will never be privy to an objective truth/reality. My black is my black, and yours is yours. We just take it as it comes, and we see what we want to see. Myself, I prefer to try and keep it simple, and not make life an endless drama. It’s just easier that way.

I probably missed the entire point of your thread, but I must say, it was (still is) a little confusing to me.

Let the good times roll...

new_here

Neither and both.
See what I did there?

No I don't see what you did there. Can you explain it for me please?

if you are looking at a cat is it a dog?

What is seen (using a word...either cat or dog) when you look at a cat - is a dog seen or a cat?

reply to post by Manula


The only way to 'solve' duality, is to see everything in 1 (whole) way not-two (non-dual).

Once you see something as 'better' or 'worse', you create a better-worse duality (2 things)
Once you see something as 'good' or 'bad', you create a good-bad duality (2 things)


So here are the answers from the perspective of non-duality:

Black or white? Whichever appears - doesn't matter
Yes or no? Whichever I say in the moment - doesn't matter
Give or get? Whichever happens - doesn't matter
Transform reality or adapt to it? Whichever I do - doesn't matter
In or out? Wherever I am - doesn't matter
Speak or listen? Whichever I happen to be doing - doesn't matter
Male or female? Either - Doesn't matter
Rational or irrational? Either - Doesn't matter
Left or right? Either - Doesn't matter
Chaos or order? Either - Doesn't matter
Rules or no rules? Either - Doesn't matter
Body or spirit? Either - Doesn't matter
Yin or Yang? Either - Doesn't matter
Left side or right side of the brain? Either - Doesn't matter
Imagination and intuition or rationality and logic? Either - Doesn't matter
Active or passive? Whichever I happen to be - doesn't matter

Observe life or be an active part of it?
Whichever I do in the moment - doesn't matter


Is there a problem to solve? It doesn't matter
Is there a dilemma here? It doesn't matter
Is there a contradiction? It doesn't matter
Any incompatibilities here? It doesn't matter