Hobby Lobby May Close All 500+ Stores in 41 States

No matter what your beliefs, no company should ever be forced to pay for anything they don't believe in. What is wrong with you people? They don't say an employee can't do it. They just don't want to pay for it! An employer owes you nothing but a paycheck but this company pays decent wages and provides insurance. But still, these brainwashed, lefty nationalists are never happy. Never saw a more despicable collective of hypocrites ever. Helping people by threat or force. What a concept!

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Hypocritical Christians claiming to know what's best for the rest of us! First you claim this.

Since we both agree HL is NOT trying to actively or passively control the lives of others.

Then you state this.

Maybe it's not all about money? Maybe people should be forced to be more responsible?

And there it is! This is what this is really all about, forcing people to be "more responsible" according to a minority of bible thumping nut cases!

Yep, this is classic anti-choice, pro-forced birthers MO. Chip away at women's rights to decide when and if they want a family and force personal, religiously biased morality on everyone within their miserable reach.

Today, it's Plan B, tomorrow it will be NuvaRing. You can't give these people even an inch!

They're Coming For Your Birth Control!

reply to post by grey580

I find it highly ironic that these guys are using their first amendment right to take away the right of someone else to make a choice about their life.

Um, taking away a person's right to use medicine would constitute getting rid of the medicine altogether.

Hobby Lobby should not be forced to provide their employees with anything other than the wage/salary that was agreed upon. If I work for Hobby Lobby, and I want to use my money that I earn to buy eggs--I can buy eggs. If Hobby Lobby doesn't like eggs, and they don't want me to use my money to buy eggs, so they ban eggs--that would be tyrannical and they would be dbags.

If Hobby Lobby doesn't like eggs, but they don't try to interfere with people buying them on their own, and I decide that I want to use the government to force Hobby Lobby to buy them for me--well, then I am the dbag. Why should they provide my wage/salary AND be forced to purchase my food for me, especially if it goes against their personal beliefs(even if I disagree)? That's the point of a wage/salary. So we can be responsible for purchasing our own commodities.

You really need to realize that you do not have a right to another person's labor. I cannot force my boss to give me things just because I want them. My boss cannot force me to give him things either. Seriously, when it comes to finances, why is the left so authoritarian?

I love your position though. "We've got all the regulations that have not destroyed business, and now they are complaining about this new one, too."

Eventually there will be the straw that broke the camel's back. All those regulations have only ruined the free market and destroyed businesses in the US. Hence the majority of them fleeing overseas to outsource production. I would too. That's why we're a nation of burger flippers and the only "industry" we export is "culture." We have nothing else.

reply to post by ketsuko

This has been explained to you - health insurance is NOT a right. It is at best a benefit provided by your employer. He is under no obligation to provide you anything in your health insurance, and he's not under any obligation to even provide you that.

Birth control is also not a right.

Now, no one, NO ONE, is stopping anyone who works at Hobby Lobby from taking any birth control, not now, not ever. No one is stopping anyone from that. They simply aren't providing a policy that covers it by providing funding for it. This is not denying anyone anything. You can still go and buy any kind of contraceptive you wish, right up to a late term abortion, if you so choose, and the evil old Hobby Lobby boogeyman can't stop you or fire you or anything, but it's very hypocritical of you to say that he has every right to choose not buy a contraceptive and then demand that he pay for yours.

well now health insurance federally mandated requirement. which I don't agree with but that's another story.

The law says a business must provide health insurance to it's employees. That's it. Whatever procedures and medicines that are deemed necessary by a doctor and patient are protected by law. Meaning that it's none of Hobby Lobby's business what goes on between a doctor and their patient.

And for years now many states require that health insurance companies provide coverage for contraception.

So if Hobby Lobby has ever bought health insurance for any of their family or employees they've purchased coverage that covers contraception medication and possibly abortion.

You're missing the point however. What is a right is a womans right to choose how to live her life and make choices about her life.

Oh and you know what's really hypocritical. Is hobby lobby buying it's products from China. A country that forces a 1 child policy per family and practices forced abortions. I guess if the product is cheap enough they can turn a blind eye to things.

buster2010

macman
reply to post by buster2010

 

Did the Govt, or did it not, mandate companies to have insurance that includes birth control???

Very simple.

It is the owner that chose to cry it's against my religion to break that law. Religion isn't supposed to dictate any laws in America much less use it as an excuse to get around the law.

Are you going to answer the direct question or not?

You play this game all too often here.

Shall I repeat it for you?

I truly appreciate that this man will stand up for what he believes. In fact I am grateful! There are few things better than to know who it is you buy products from. Once I found out about Hobby Lobbys religious zealots it was quite easy to not give them any of my money.

I won;t support gay bashers, Pro-lifers or anyone else that thinks their religion is more important that other people lives and bodies.

I will cross my fingers and hope all his stores get shut down. Despite it being his business he does not have the right to disobey state and federal laws.

The only religious views I seen in this thread are those who support the holy trinity of government forcing people to subsidze peoples sex lives.

Yeah 5 bucks for a box of condoms, or 15 bucks for some birth control pills is obviously too much money !

Sure make everyone pay for it. Even though they get all the same stuff at any planned parenthood for next to free.

Good for Hobby Lobby what the proponents of 'someone pay for my sex life' leave out is:

Employers pay for half of their employees social security, and medicare contributions, the employers are already paying for the employees unemployment insurance, when someone says 'living wage' crapola that gets translated to higher out of pocket expense of the employers.

Sure why the hell not add more money that employers have to shell out just to stay in business!

Makes sense don't it ?

Then there is this :

CBO nearly triples estimate of working hours lost by 2021 due to Affordable Care Act

Hope them free condoms, and birth control pills are worth the hour reductions.

When business is already under the massive weight of the state sure lets add more stupidity.

buster2010
reply to post by Bone75

 

No Christian should be forced to pay for someone's contraception. Period.

But it's ok for an employer to force their religious beliefs on their employees huh? Do you support Christians paying for Viagra seeing how many insurance companies will pay for it? Funny how you don't hear these "Christians" complaining about that. And it is the insurance companies that pays for the contraception the employer pays one lump sum not this portion goes to this and this portion goes to that. My sympathies goes out to the employees of this person that thinks the world should follow his religion. When will Americans who think like him wake up and realize that America is not a Christian nation and will never be a Christian nation. This country already has too many laws based on this religion already.

The solution is really simple.

My employer pays me my wage/salary. I take that money, and I buy the things that I want with it.

Tada. It's like magic.

reply to post by grey580

You're missing the point however. What is a right is a womans right to choose how to live her life and make choices about her life.

Of course, that is only rational, and that woman can use the money that she has earned to implement those choices. Then all the bickering would end.

Aleister
reply to post by Bone75

 

He is not running a religious institution, so he cannot claim a religious exemption on the simple task of providing a health-care insurance provider who would provide legal contraceptives on their plan. Instead, he wants to hurt each and every person working for him by picking up his marbles and going home.

What a sore loser. And if he so opposed to providing adequate health care for his employees, maybe he should sell his company to someone who would, thus saving the jobs of everyone who has stayed loyal to him.

edit on 3-2-2014 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

Well said.

Well said.

reply to post by Aleister

he wants to hurt each and every person working for him by picking up his marbles and going home.

Good. And he should.

If I were a businesses owner having to put up with anything other than an absolutely free market I would certainly use my economic prowess as a weapon against the nation implementing financially-authoritarian laws.

War is war.

reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon


Health insurance is part of an employee compensation package. To deny basic health care needs to women, but not men, forcing them to spend more money on health care than their male counterparts, simply because of their anatomy, is discrimination.

windword
reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon

 

Health insurance is part of an employee compensation package. To deny basic health care needs to women, but not men, forcing them to spend more money on health care than their male counterparts, simply because of their anatomy, is discrimination.

1. I wouldn't provide healthcare to either sex.
2. Contraception is not a "basic" health need anymore than breasts implants are--and in that case, neither is Viagra.

windword
And there it is! This is what this is really all about, forcing people to be "more responsible" according to a minority of bible thumping nut cases!

Just out of curiosity, how many times have you been referred to as a nutcase in this thread?

maddog99
No matter what your beliefs, no company should ever be forced to pay for anything they don't believe in.

Agreed, but on the other hand many non religious tax payers end up being forced to pick up the tax burden created by Christian tax exempt organizations.

reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon


Unfortunately, your Utopia is not the law here. We're stuck with employer based health care compensation packages here in the USA.

2. Contraception is not a "basic" health need anymore than breasts implants are.........

That is absolutely false. Contraception saves lives! Before modern medicine and contraception, the number one cause of female death was childbirth!

reply to post by Bone75


I've been accused of murder, been called ignorant and a liar several times in this thread. Is "nut case" more offensive than being called a willful liar and a wanton murderer?

If you take a contrary position on ATS, you should have thick skin!

reply to post by windword

That is absolutely false. Contraception saves lives! Before modern medicine and contraception, the number one cause of female death was childbirth!

You've got to be kidding. You realize that you are implying human beings are mindless drones that have no choice but to give in to their baser instincts, right? So, according to you, companies should be responsible for idiots that cannot control their own sexual urges?

With that sort of logic, we should just let rapists off the hook. Obviously they fall under the same category.

Pretty sure I can choose whether or not I want to have sex, and I am pretty sure I can choose to wrap it twice if I do have sex.

So, yeah, my stance is still valid. Contraception is a cosmetic medicine like breast implants and does not fall under the category of "basic" health requirements.

reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon

Contraception is a cosmetic medicine like breast implants and does not fall under the category of "basic" health requirements.

Not according to the American Medical Association and the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology, as well as the LAW! Contraception is legally considered a basic health care need for women, and it DOES save lives.

Pretty sure I can choose whether or not I want to have sex, and I am pretty sure I can choose to wrap it twice if I do have sex.

You can wrap or unwrap, i don't care. Contraception isn't for you, its for women.

reply to post by windword

Not according to the American Medical Association and the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology, as well as the LAW! Contraception is legally considered a basic health care need for women, and it DOES save lives.

So? If you decide to have sex, that's a personal choice. If you decide to have kids, that's a personal choice. Please tell me that arbitrary laws with no basis in reality have never been written before? Obvioulsy the AMA, ABOG, and lawmakers have the downs. Please put forth your own argument to show how we HAVE to have sex?

There would be no chance of "dying from childbirth" without sex first taking place. Sex itself is not a basic need because you will not die without it. You are just grasping at straws.

You can wrap or unwrap, i don't care. Contraception isn't for you, its for women.

By your logic, if I am using condoms, then I am helping to save women's lives, therefore, my employer needs to buy my Trojans for me.