ATS experiment thread--what's considered "okay," and what's NOT okay

After reading a link from another thread on ATS, I've realized a few things I've only suspected until now. Have any of you ever felt as though only SOME topics are welcome on ATS? Only SOME opinions are okay to be expressed? Only certain pieces of a touchy subject are allowed to be subject for judgment and opinions?

Forum Spies

FORUM SLIDING

If a very sensitive posting of a critical nature has been posted on a forum - it can be quickly removed from public view by 'forum sliding.' In this technique a number of unrelated posts are quietly prepositioned on the forum and allowed to 'age.' Each of these misdirectional forum postings can then be called upon at will to trigger a 'forum slide.' The second requirement is that several fake accounts exist, which can be called upon, to ensure that this technique is not exposed to the public. To trigger a 'forum slide' and 'flush' the critical post out of public view it is simply a matter of logging into each account both real and fake and then 'replying' to prepositined postings with a simple 1 or 2 line comment. This brings the unrelated postings to the top of the forum list, and the critical posting 'slides' down the front page, and quickly out of public view. Although it is difficult or impossible to censor the posting it is now lost in a sea of unrelated and unuseful postings. By this means it becomes effective to keep the readers of the forum reading unrelated and non-issue items.

You've seen this happen on ATS, right?

CONSENSUS CRACKING

A second highly effective technique (which you can see in operation all the time at www.abovetopsecret.com) is 'consensus cracking.' To develop a consensus crack, the following technique is used. Under the guise of a fake account a posting is made which looks legitimate and is towards the truth is made - but the critical point is that it has a VERY WEAK PREMISE without substantive proof to back the posting. Once this is done then under alternative fake accounts a very strong position in your favour is slowly introduced over the life of the posting. It is IMPERATIVE that both sides are initially presented, so the uninformed reader cannot determine which side is the truth. As postings and replies are made the stronger 'evidence' or disinformation in your favour is slowly 'seeded in.' Thus the uninformed reader will most like develop the same position as you, and if their position is against you their opposition to your posting will be most likely dropped. However in some cases where the forum members are highly educated and can counter your disinformation with real facts and linked postings, you can then 'abort' the consensus cracking by initiating a 'forum slide.'

Anyone else get infuriated by this one? You spend time and effort constructing, what you think, is a well-presented thread of information of some kind or another, then someone--or a few people--derail the entire thread with two-liners driving the topic further and further from the perspective of the readers and the OP?

TOPIC DILUTION

Topic dilution is not only effective in forum sliding it is also very useful in keeping the forum readers on unrelated and non-productive issues. This is a critical and useful technique to cause a 'RESOURCE BURN.' By implementing continual and non-related postings that distract and disrupt (trolling ) the forum readers they are more effectively stopped from anything of any real productivity. If the intensity of gradual dilution is intense enough, the readers will effectively stop researching and simply slip into a 'gossip mode.' In this state they can be more easily misdirected away from facts towards uninformed conjecture and opinion. The less informed they are the more effective and easy it becomes to control the entire group in the direction that you would desire the group to go in. It must be stressed that a proper assessment of the psychological capabilities and levels of education is first determined of the group to determine at what level to 'drive in the wedge.' By being too far off topic too quickly it may trigger censorship by a forum moderator.

By poking insults at an OP's sources or wording, folks often give criticism (most of the time, when I see it, it is uneeded and completely uncalled for), and then the thread becomes a cesspool of people griping at one another, and the original topic and whatever secrets within it are forgotten.

INFORMATION COLLECTION

Information collection is also a very effective method to determine the psychological level of the forum members, and to gather intelligence that can be used against them. In this technique in a light and positive environment a 'show you mine so me yours' posting is initiated. From the number of replies and the answers that are provided much statistical information can be gathered. An example is to post your 'favourite weapon' and then encourage other members of the forum to showcase what they have. In this matter it can be determined by reverse proration what percentage of the forum community owns a firearm, and or a illegal weapon. This same method can be used by posing as one of the form members and posting your favourite 'technique of operation.' From the replies various methods that the group utilizes can be studied and effective methods developed to stop them from their activities.

For the extra paranoid, here you go ^

ANGER TROLLING

Statistically, there is always a percentage of the forum posters who are more inclined to violence. In order to determine who these individuals are, it is a requirement to present a image to the forum to deliberately incite a strong psychological reaction. From this the most violent in the group can be effectively singled out for reverse IP location and possibly local enforcement tracking. To accomplish this only requires posting a link to a video depicting a local police officer massively abusing his power against a very innocent individual. Statistically of the million or so police officers in America there is always one or two being caught abusing there powers and the taping of the activity can be then used for intelligence gathering purposes - without the requirement to 'stage' a fake abuse video. This method is extremely effective, and the more so the more abusive the video can be made to look. Sometimes it is useful to 'lead' the forum by replying to your own posting with your own statement of violent intent, and that you 'do not care what the authorities think!!' inflammation. By doing this and showing no fear it may be more effective in getting the more silent and self-disciplined violent intent members of the forum to slip and post their real intentions. This can be used later in a court of law during prosecution.

Even on ATS, where strong language and explicit rudeness are moderated and not tolerated, this method is still rather common on this site. Its more creative and subtle than on other forum sites, because of the mods. But I've experienced this one quite a bit.

--[Continued)--

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--[Continued)--

GAINING FULL CONTROL

It is important to also be harvesting and continually maneuvering for a forum moderator position. Once this position is obtained, the forum can then be effectively and quietly controlled by deleting unfavourable postings - and one can eventually steer the forum into complete failure and lack of interest by the general public. This is the 'ultimate victory' as the forum is no longer participated with by the general public and no longer useful in maintaining their freedoms. Depending on the level of control you can obtain, you can deliberately steer a forum into defeat by censoring postings, deleting memberships, flooding, and or accidentally taking the forum offline. By this method the forum can be quickly killed. However it is not always in the interest to kill a forum as it can be converted into a 'honey pot' gathering center to collect and misdirect newcomers and from this point be completely used for your control for your agenda purposes.

The most sensitive forum-conspiracy of all.

I know damn well that all of you reading this paragraph can think of some examples. Some suspicions you've had about the moderation of, not only ATS, but ALL websites where theorizing and discussion are encouraged upfront, and managed from behind the scenes. Think about it--if there is a conspiracy to control the minds of the masses, including conspiracy theorizing, which has become almost mainstream lately, wouldn't ATS be the first online candidate for this kind of conspiracy?

The reason this thread is titled "Experiment Thread" is because I'm curious how long the thread will be active before it gets derailed, flamed, or even removed. I'm curious as to how many of you will give me honest feedback after reading all these forum-controlling methods, and how many of you are one of these derailing trolls.

Just something to think about, ATS. Good day~

XxNightAngelusxX
I know damn well that all of you reading this paragraph can think of some examples. Some suspicions you've had about the moderation ....

Nope. No suspicion of the moderation here. Not by me, anyways.

As for the 'CONSENSUS CRACKING' ... according to your information (if I'm reading correctly) that requires multiple fake accounts, right? (or did I read that wrong). That doesn't work here. When people have multiple accounts, they eventually get caught.

I'll have to give the other things you said some thought ....
But these two that I just addressed stood out to me.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


The one that drives me nuts is "Forum Sliding." You're right to mention that first. Someone posts something interesting and before you can blink twice we get a bunch of threads like:

"What if a giant squid attacked New York?"
-or-
"I had a dream an asteroid crashed on my house"

I don't think there is Mod interference or they've been taken by the dark side though. At least none I've seen as long as members remain within T&C.

FlyersFan

XxNightAngelusxX
I know damn well that all of you reading this paragraph can think of some examples. Some suspicions you've had about the moderation ....

Nope. No suspicion of the moderation here. Not by me, anyways.

As for the 'CONSENSUS CRACKING' ... according to your information (if I'm reading correctly) that requires multiple fake accounts, right? (or did I read that wrong). That doesn't work here. When people have multiple accounts, they eventually get caught.

I'll have to give the other things you said some thought ....
But these two that I just addressed stood out to me.

No worries.

I've spoken to one or two folks saying they got away with having multiple accounts, but they never claimed to do it for disinformation purposes (not that anyone would go out of their way to make that claim), but I'll agree it'd be a lot harder to pull this off on ATS than it would on most other sites.

Bassago
reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

 

The one that drives me nuts is "Forum Sliding." You're right to mention that first. Someone posts something interesting and before you can blink twice we get a bunch of threads like:

"What if a giant squid attacked New York?"
-or-
"I had a dream an asteroid crashed on my house"

I don't think there is Mod interference or they've been taken by the dark side though. At least none I've seen as long as members remain within T&C.

edit on 905pm0000pm22014 by Bassago because: (no reason given)

I'm not sure about mod interference. I think its possible, but not terribly likely.

And yes, its extremely annoying when people get feedback for conpletely silly topics before giving any thought to some down-to-earth REAL ones.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


Trolling is trolling, and cannot be avoided if you intend on using the internet.

As far as forum sliding, I just use the new topics page. Even if I don't get a chance to come on ATS until late at night I can just scroll through and read through everything posted that day that interests me.

I personally have no gripes against the staff here. I have been warned more than a few times and I was blatantly wrong.

I also think that if you post a quality thread, it will stand up on it's own merits. Actively monitoring your thread and discouraging people from going off topic goes a long way.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


Personally speaking, I have never been in a position where I have felt that something fishy was afoot on this site, aside from when hacking from external sources was deemed to have been the culprit, and where the only noticable symptomology, was a total lack of access to the site.

The only times I have come across moderation that I did not agree with, it was because there had been an infraction of the T&C, some corners of which contain prohibitions which irk me. However, as a member of this site, I swore to keep my use of the site within its terms and conditions, and much as some of them might not gel very well with my particular thinking, I made an oath, and I shall strive to keep it.

As for fake accounts, phantom commentary, thread sabotage, and so on, I have never come across an example of this, in any thread I have participated in since 2007 when I joined.

I'v had applause's from mods for a thread & the same thread closed by another, multiple times. O.k maybe slightly controversial or taking the piss, but one would like to think that its solely T&C's that effect the closure or censoring of your post, not somebodies individual feeling towards your statement that has the power to censor you.

Maybe slightly off topic but that's been ticking em for a while now lol

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


DO NOT quote a op verbatim ...I did that once and got hit for 1000 points and my post washed ....I didn't even know I had that many points at the time ...Hey ,what can we do with points on ats anyway ?

edit to add ...I posted before reading what you had to say ..I did that based solely on your title .my bad but I am not alone lol ...this is a very good thread and as well as putting my 1 cent worth in I get to read what should be a interesting thread ....carry on good soldier

i appreciate the feedback, and it looks like everyone has a slightly different experience (as always in life), but a good handful of folks seem to understand the point of the thread, which is a good thing

I honestly wasn't pointing fingers at ATS for being an info-collecting shill site (because that's not what I think at all), but I wanted to throw these possibilities out there for folks who don't regularly give these possibilities any consideration. You never know, ya know?

TrueBrit
reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

 

Personally speaking, I have never been in a position where I have felt that something fishy was afoot on this site, aside from when hacking from external sources was deemed to have been the culprit, and where the only noticable symptomology, was a total lack of access to the site.

The only times I have come across moderation that I did not agree with, it was because there had been an infraction of the T&C, some corners of which contain prohibitions which irk me. However, as a member of this site, I swore to keep my use of the site within its terms and conditions, and much as some of them might not gel very well with my particular thinking, I made an oath, and I shall strive to keep it.

As for fake accounts, phantom commentary, thread sabotage, and so on, I have never come across an example of this, in any thread I have participated in since 2007 when I joined.

lol well last time I spoke up I got a temp ban so not saying anything against ATS again

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

Only certain pieces of a touchy subject are allowed to be subject for judgment and opinions?

You mean like its okay to make vague accusations about "trolls" but not name specific threads or posts? Pull the handle on their posts if they break Terms. Insinuation is witch hunting at its lowest.

There, I've fit the mold.

This sounded quite familiar to me because it's been referenced before here Thread

Might be worth a read on that thread as it went over a lot of this stuff.

The two things I've noticed ATS staff really doesn't like: bad language and talk about drugs.

It's the level of "political correctness" which really annoys me. We're supposed to be a controversial community talking about controversial things. Posters here so often criticize the establishment for being so up tight and politically correct, but ironically enough ATS is one of the most PC forums on the whole god damn internet.

I've seen them even remove threads about hemp for christ sakes, threads which had nothing to do with mind altering drugs. One of the threads was about a new hemp bill being passed through congress or something, they even removed that thread. Something even the government was willing to discuss but we on ATS aren't. Hemp doesn't even contain enough THC to get anyone stoned. It's as if they don't know that or they just don't care.

Then there's the ridiculous oversensitivity to bad language. I remember one time when I released a chapter of my Interconnection story (see my signature), I had used the "f-word" but I had censored every letter except for the first and last letter. I felt it was necessary to use that word to convey the intensity of the situation, but censored it as to not directly break they rules. Even so, one of the mods felt it was necessary to "snip" the whole thing from my post and essentially ruin the flow of my story.

Well I could go on and on with this rant but I've said enough for one post...

I'll start off by saying this.. honestly and directly from my heart, to all of you here at ATS.
Yes - I have witnessed "touchy subjects" or topics discussed here, that have been "shut down" or have for lack of a better term… otherwise disappeared.

One instance:
I remember a post, years ago…. about some horse trainer that had stated he had some info about 9/11, and the rendition flights & such. Sure, it got bombarded by many people trying to argue - and ultimately it got the 404. Not to be found anymore. (rightly so or not is not my call)

But I do have the right to argue it, no?

XxNightAngelusxX
Have any of you ever felt as though only SOME topics are welcome on ATS? Only SOME opinions are okay to be expressed? Only certain pieces of a touchy subject are allowed to be subject for judgment and opinions?

I feel that is so.
So what?

Of course, and I've not been a part of that.
Fake names, sock puppets… etc.
"CONSENSUS CRACKING"
That's been done here, I'd bet on it.
And I'd even go so far to speculate, that I was gullible enough to try and crack that code....


Ultimately,
I'm reminded of the Elton John track = "Your Song"
It makes sense right about now.

Logically any public forum is open to manipulation to those that have an interest.


There are certain policies in place on ATS that directly oppose the stated objective of the site.


We live in perilous times, it behooves one to keep a rational head around here and believe nothing on face value as posted.

Just as a public forum can be manipulated by those with an Interest the sword is double edged,

As long as members stay informed and vigilant the manipulators will constantly have to struggle with OPS like this, and quality members who know the right to free speech and expression needs to be upheld.

More so when it is perilous than when it is safe.

I have to say that i have witnessed on ATS, the majority of the information presented in the OP. Forum sliding, consensus cracking and topic dilution are just everyday occurrences now. Although i notice that forum sliding is harder to pull off on ATS, as we now have the 'new' tab.

Information collection wouldn't surprise me, as i know for a fact that government services are at least watching these boards...

I see anger trolling occasionally, and it is most prevalent in the example given in the OP. Police brutality threads are a good example, and is where i see it the most. It is also where open police officers actually engage in conversation with some other members...whether they are profiling them though is a completely different matter...

As for gaining full control...i'll leave that up to the individual to decide. Members who have acted in such ways as the OP describes, have become moderators...We have also experienced the huge blackout that was ATS on Sandy Hook and the Boston Bombings...

I think these things are definitely taking place here, at ATS. What is so damaging though, is that this site has started allowing these things to take place, or has been more lax than usual in moderating such things. I think it has contributed greatly to the identity of ATS as of late...and it isn't a good one. Still the best site around though.

As it say several times it's very hard to spot if it's done on purpose but it could be going on, i personally don't know.

I don't think any mod's are in on any of this at all, as yesterday i posted a thread which was intended to bring back peoples old threads as they often dissapear in the massive library of ATS forum, and it didn't get moderated in any way, even though it was close(i think, not sure and in no way intended) to breaking the T&C, unforunately it didn't really kick of. I did though have some good reading and i'm not done yet.

It's hard to keep track of post and comment on ATS, as it sometimes move at lightspeed but i have seen way more traffic here in the old days, than what it looks now.

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


It does happen... definately.

many threads of mine get derailed or ignored due to the fact that I speak my mind. many on this site don't kike it and so derail it on purpose. I once had a thread which was gaining enough views and responses and was up high on the sites 'most recent threads' or the other one and then all of a sudden, a MOD picked it up and threw to BTS.

Another time I had one going which doing really well, only to see the next day that someone had made another thread with similar text to mine but undermining mine (if you know what I mean) as if to say 'mine was wrong' but 'their's is right' ... 'read my one and comment here so that his one gets lost in the many other threads out there'....

Yes, it definately happens.