Gibson Guitars get's the last laugh, gives Feds the finger......board

ScrufferMcGruffer
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

What's funny is that they're only making this guitar because the president of Gibson is a republican and Obama is a democrat. They're not just "sticking it to the powers that be" as so delicately stated on their webpage, they're sticking it so democrats. And why? Why waste all of that precious wood that caused such controversy in the first place by making a god awful looking and sounding edition? The Government II Series? Seriously? I would NEVER want to own any piece of material tainted with the presumptuous energy of political bias. Music is pure and non-political. It shouldn't be about these distractions. That wood was seized because it is precious, and yes I'm sure it had something to do with corrupt political overtones, but the point is there is alot of value to those trees because they are rare and precious sounding, and that is why Gibson, the best guitar company in the world, wants them for its instruments. So now they're just wasting it on a mockery of the government because the president of GIbson is a whiney little bitch? How many badass 2014 Gibson Custom Les Pauls could that have made? What about just donating the seized wood to little kids, in the form of free guitars, and turn something negative into a positive thing that never would have happened unless the government seized the wood.

You are aware that the Government tends to over step it's bounds once in awhile right?

try selling lemonade in your neighborhood....nope Gov will get ya
try planting a garden in your yard....nope Gov will get ya
try having a bake sale....nope Gov will get ya
try flying with a bottle of water....nope Gov will get ya
try protecting yourself from thugs breaking into your house.....nope Gov will get ya
try open carrying in an open carry state.....nope Gov will get ya
try to peacefully assemble for any reason the Gov doesn't like....nope the Gov will get ya
try legally videotaping police in public....nope Gov will get ya

It's about the people (Gibson Guitars) going up against the most powerful force in the world (The US Gov) and winning.....

nothing more....nothing less

Ill stick with my 79 Les Paul deluxe thanks.....but i hope they make their $ back.....
Gibson makes Goood guitars.

i know some one that illegally imported banned wood.

He was importing rattan furniture and the company that shipped the furniture was crating it in crates made from protected wood not allowed to be sent to the US as raw wood.

US customs never caught on..

Many of the countries that these banned woods come from do nothing to protect these forests and the bans do not stop even one tree from being cut down.
All they stop is the end use of the wood in the US.
Countries like china will still import these woods even though the US does not.

buster2010
The reason why Gibson got raided and Martin didn't is rather simple. Martin was smart enough to apply for the proper permits that allowed them to import the wood. It had nothing to do with one giving money to one political party or the other. Gibson is just whining because they have stupid people running it almost as stupid as anyone willing to pay a grand for this Les Paul. It's been at least 12 years since Gibson made a decent Les Paul.

Actually it's not that simple:

The Government and Gibson acknowledge and agree that certain questions and inconsistencies now exist regarding the tariff classification of ebony and rosewood fingerboard blanks pursuant to the Indian government's Foreign Trade Policy. Accordingly, the Government will not undertake enforcement actions related to Gibson's future orders, purchases, or imports of ebony and rosewood fingerboard blanks from India, unless and until the Government of India provides specific clarification that ebony and rosewood fingerboard blanks are expressly prohibited by laws related to Indian Foreign Trade Policy. The Government agrees to provide Gibson notice of any such clarification from the Government of India in the future and a reasonable period of time (60 days or as otherwise agreed) to address the potential change in the understanding of the law as it relates to shipments received by or en route to Gibson.

Source

If you read the document further in, (which is pretty long actually), the statement of facts seems to indicate this all has to do with Madagascar wood. Where the Madagascar government suddenly said in 2006 that all stockpiles of Madagascar _____ wood has to be accounted for.

The German supplier did no declare their stockpiles, but when the warrants were served, Gibson showed that they told them the wood was fine. Since they ordered wood after 2006, suddenly the wood was illegal.

Furthermore the law in Madagascar is ambiguous, and if fingerboards are fully finished they are legal but do not mention blanks.

Intenninisterial Order 16.030/2006, Article 6, musical instrument parts, including "guitar fingerboards," were listed as one example of "finished products;" however, "fingerboard blanks" are not specifically listed.

And the categorization for the import is "other" in the same category as roofing tiles and furniture.




Enforcement is one thing, but the way this was handled does not really fit with how other businesses are dealt with. EPA has many cases against a lot of companies, and rarely does it turn into a criminal matter. Most regulation agencies look at pushing the company into towing the line.

Which is really up for debate whether you want to see big companies suffering more/less consequences. The thing here is that it is quite possible Gibson received more scrutiny because of politics (as they claim) in which case is unfair business advantage.

Gibson vigorously denies these allegations, maintaining that all of its purchases from Madagascar have complied with U.S. and Malagasy law. A company attorney says Gibson has presented documents to support that claim and that the recent raid seized legally obtained wood from India. He adds that the company stopped importing wood from Madagascar in 2009.

Chris Martin, Chairman and CEO of the C.F. Martin Guitar Co. in Nazareth, Pa., says that when he first heard guitars built from Madagascar rosewood, he dreamed it might be the long-sought substitute for Brazilian rosewood, whose trade was banned in the 1990s due to over-harvest. Then the situation in Madagascar changed.

"There was a coup," Martin says. "What we heard was the international community has come to the conclusion that the coup created an illegitimate government. That's when we said, 'Okay, we can not buy any more of this wood.'"

www.npr.org...

In any case, the entire thing can be summed up due to instability in one source country. Why their wood from India was seized is beyond me…


(Implying government overreach)

reply to post by boncho


Awesome input Boncho.....thanks for adding in

As much as I like Gibsons, (I have a 77 LPC), they have been surpassed in all regards after 1981-1983, Now they are tons of brands that runs rings around them and its a pity since AMERICAN (meaning USA) guitar makers had such a good reputation.

Paul Reed Smith now imports a lot of rare woods and makes INCREDIBLE instruments, they truly carry the torch in American guitar making.

Gibson and Fender nowadays don't hold a candle against some Japanesse maker such as Hoshino ( Ibanez ), that is why Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, George Lynch etc etc.. and other virtuosos use japanesse guitars...

Even with exotic wood no guitar is good if quality control, intonation and manufacturing is done by bozos .

Yeah sorry, I love me a Gibson, and I love to play - but this isn't the Government raiding Gibson for their political stance, it's Gibson taking their punishment for their illegal practice and turning it into a political stance.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


I think someone needs a visit from EL KABONG.

The Lacey Act applies from “stump to shelf,” making it illegal “to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law.” Anyone along the supply chain, including the consumer, violates the act if a manufactured item contains a substance obtained illegally under the law of the country of harvest.

Yep, buy, say, a guitar containing a sliver of wood obtained illegally under the law of a country halfway around the world and even though you were unaware of its banned status, you acquired the instrument illegally. (Though, federal officials have recently announced that they won’t enforce the Lacey Act against consumers.) Now, criminal sanctions like big fines and jail time require an intentional circumvention of applicable law, but even innocent circumvention results in confiscation.

A guitar is an apt choice of an exemplary product. A number of guitar makers – those solo luthiers toiling in their one-person shops – have reported to me that their instruments have been seized, temporarily, as they cross international borders when traveling from maker to buyer. The most dramatic example, though, features a large scale manufacturer, the Gibson Corporation. The company has twice had wood and guitars seized. The first seizure occurred in 2009. Gibson and the other two of the “Big Three” U.S. guitar makers, Martin and Taylor, toured Madagascar in 2008 to view what environmental groups had deemed illegal logging operations. After the visit, Martin and Taylor stopped importing woods from Madagascar. Gibson, though, continued and the result was the intervention of federal authorities.

dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com...

I have worked for the top guy from one of the top three makers often over the last few years
scutllebutt:
They ( the top three ) are all getting hassled over imports and exports... and taxes... and health care... and and and
the problem is overzealous globalizm from the dictators and their lil self impotentates

Bazart is correct. Sorry, I don't know how to put up a link yet, but you can just Google it like I did. This is about the Rosewood that Gibson uses for their fingerboards. The price is not bad at all, if it is a decent guitar. The body is mahogany like any other Les Paul, and the pickups and tuners are comparable also. It comes in what they call Government Tan, which I think is ugly, but they are trying to make money off of this. I'll stick with my 1990 Les Paul Custom.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


yet people buy guitars and accessory's !! Made In COMMUNIST China ! yet Republicans and the American Goverment gets offensive From Gibson.. getting wood from INDIA ??? Ya OK! .. :LOL:

and you can thanks to the Politicians.. the Free Trade with China ! then Went Booming During the Reagan ( Republican ) Administration!... Just WOW! Personally I would Rather Have INDIA then Commie China for Free Trade! ...


This right here should go Viral to All Nations.. of the Political BS !


Fable Fighters: What's the Big Deal About USA-made vs. Offshore Guitars
By Dave Hunter
Mon, 22 Apr 2013

www.guitarplayer.com...

Well I gues Gibson Show grow Ebony Trees here in America !

Text

Overview Americans likely do not know about the look or origins of the tree called ebony (Diosyros ebenum), but may know it yields an amazingly dark blackish-brown wood used to make chess pieces, inlays for luxury furniture or the half-step keys on a piano. This wood is dense and hard and has almost metallic qualities. This tropical tree is appropriate to grow in frost-free regions, such as those designated U.S. Department of Agriculture hardiness zones 10 and warmer.

www.gardenguides.com...

This tropical tree is appropriate to grow in frost-free regions, such as those designated U.S. Department of Agriculture hardiness zones 10 and warmer.

Well if fast foods can grow there own Crap livestock and Gardens.. Why cant Gibson !

Bypasas all the Import crap...

or another Route ..

Similar Species The ebony tree is sometimes called the Ceylong or Indian ebony; it is not the only tree that may be called ebony or provide wood that is called ebony. Other tropical species with dark heartwood include Bombay ebony (Diospyros montana), African ebony (Diospyros mespiliformis), Madagascar ebony (Diospyros haplostylis) and Macassar ebony (Diospyros celebica).

ScrufferMcGruffer
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

Music is pure and non-political. It shouldn't be about these distractions.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this statement. There are countless bands that at the core were born out of politics. U2, The Clash, Dead Kennedy's, Rage Against the Machine, KMFDM, heck even Bob Marley. I think music is a major outlet for folks to express their political beliefs.

Tarzan the apeman.
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

I think someone needs a visit from EL KABONG.

nice!!! QUICK DRAW!

kix
As much as I like Gibsons, (I have a 77 LPC), they have been surpassed in all regards after 1981-1983, Now they are tons of brands that runs rings around them and its a pity since AMERICAN (meaning USA) guitar makers had such a good reputation.

Paul Reed Smith now imports a lot of rare woods and makes INCREDIBLE instruments, they truly carry the torch in American guitar making.

Gibson and Fender nowadays don't hold a candle against some Japanesse maker such as Hoshino ( Ibanez ), that is why Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, George Lynch etc etc.. and other virtuosos use japanesse guitars...

Even with exotic wood no guitar is good if quality control, intonation and manufacturing is done by bozos .

-------------^
I couldn't agree more. You said it! I own three very different and distinct model Ibanez guitars, and the craftsmanship and playability of the team J craft guitars made in Japan are outstanding. My beautiful Ibanez Jem7V is razor sharp. No slop no high action it plays like a well tuned high performance sonic weapon.

I never understood why some people would pay literally thousands more for a "Gibson" or road worn "Fender" when you can buy a guitar 1/3 the price that is more than capable of creating a storm of audible euphoria that could make even a Les Paul owner impressed.


If i had the money I would pursue early model (late 60s-70s) Gibsons & Fenders for their unique tones, but with a limited budget ill stick with modern Japanese precision.

You know what beats all guitars, technique.
Pretty Sure Hendrix could have sounded great using any guitar, same for most great guitarists.
Your own main guitar becomes part of you but along with, technique, plectrum (or not) Amplifier, Effects, the guitar is almost relegated to show piece.
Don't get me wrong most guitars under 2-300 dollars aren't very good for a variety of reasons.

I guess my point is. Don't believe the Hype of Gibsons, Stratacasters etc, Ibanez, Hamer and many other brands make excellent guitars these days.

Source :I have around $8000 's worth of guitars

Glad to hear it! I'm a tele man myself, but you can't deny the quality of any Gibson, especially there acoustics.

PS
I'm an older model epiphone ( mine all say Gibson on them ) with a peavey tube amp man..
IMHO to have this much fun on a strat or tele you need a real one at much more the price

a nice old pawn shop acoustic from the right maker can rival a pricey big three at times too

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


I think the way your thread went from ' Government Abuse ' to whatever it is now... reminds me of something Frank Zappa once said.
In the end , we'll most likely just shut up and play our guitars.( wherever they are made ).
And , I'll have you know - we won't get fooled again...
Damn, I miss my 77 ' Pro ' reissue ( with P-90's
).

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


Wow, why is it ok for martin and not ok for gibson? This is why Jesse Ventura must become president so that everyone is on the same playing field. I have never liked Martin guitars, this gives me more reason to stick with my Gibson's and ESP's.

Plus it is only wood.. If they were made in India and then sold in the states thats ok, but you cant create work for americans if your importing the wood from india.

The us government needs to get their priorities straight. Obama said that he was going to create jobs... now all those master guitar crafters do not have work, no wood + no work + no guitars = #ty ass economy. I bet you that this event is going to fuel so many songs and even albums to be made over the next year by tons of pissed off artists like me.

Bazart
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

I think the way your thread went from ' Government Abuse ' to whatever it is now... reminds me of something Frank Zappa once said.
In the end , we'll most likely just shut up and play our guitars.( wherever they are made ).
And , I'll have you know - we won't get fooled again...
Damn, I miss my 77 ' Pro ' reissue ( with P-90's

).

Said Frank with one of the most heavily modified SG's ever.