Who was Jack the Ripper?

reply to post by Magnivea


Being fairly well-acquainted with Mr. Mudgett, I find this to be an interesting theory, but at the same time, H.H. wasn't generally known for getting his own hands dirty as the Ripper did (he used traps and such), and his murders (specifically in the "castle") were aimed at forcing people into signing their wealth over to him.

Wouldn't the killings of poor prostitutes in Whitechapel sort of fly in the face of the M.O.?

By the way, I'm not saying that H.H. Holmes being Jack the Ripper is impossible or anything. It's just that the motivation for all of Mudgett's murders was money. I don't see that with the Ripper killings at all.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


I've read that he may have killed as early as 7 years old. There was no real motivation to kill Pitezel's children but he did anyway. Yes, a large portion of his murders were motivated by monetary gain but there were just as many if not more that were killed just to (I believe) satiate his need to kill. From what he admitted, he was very hands on with the broken but alive victims of the chutes. By the way, the 26 or 27 he admitted to were less than a tenth of what he was responsible for. I think even the 200 estimate is a bit low.

I also think that the money was something of an afterthought further on. He was scamming enough people that he never intended to kill to live comfortably. Maybe it was just a combination of greed and what he had grown used to doing to pay his way through medical school.

My theory is that he viewed London in a different light than Chicago or the US in general. Something along the lines of a serial killer's vacation. Maybe try out a few new things, hone skills in a high stakes game. That being said, I don't for a second believe the famous five were all JtR and I do think there were others before and after, also in London. As many have said before me, the final JtR kill was FAR too personal to be the doing of a stranger. Maybe it was him and he knew her personally but odds are against that.

My personal favorite mystery involves another "From Hell" kind of letter, the Axeman of New Orleans. I'm working on an epic thread covering that from all aspects but I think I'll take a detour back into JtR and HHH for a bit.

Magnivea
reply to post by ProfessorChaos

 

I've read that he may have killed as early as 7 years old. There was no real motivation to kill Pitezel's children but he did anyway. Yes, a large portion of his murders were motivated by monetary gain but there were just as many if not more that were killed just to (I believe) satiate his need to kill. From what he admitted, he was very hands on with the broken but alive victims of the chutes. By the way, the 26 or 27 he admitted to were less than a tenth of what he was responsible for. I think even the 200 estimate is a bit low.

I also think that the money was something of an afterthought further on. He was scamming enough people that he never intended to kill to live comfortably. Maybe it was just a combination of greed and what he had grown used to doing to pay his way through medical school.

My theory is that he viewed London in a different light than Chicago or the US in general. Something along the lines of a serial killer's vacation. Maybe try out a few new things, hone skills in a high stakes game. That being said, I don't for a second believe the famous five were all JtR and I do think there were others before and after, also in London. As many have said before me, the final JtR kill was FAR too personal to be the doing of a stranger. Maybe it was him and he knew her personally but odds are against that.

My personal favorite mystery involves another "From Hell" kind of letter, the Axeman of New Orleans. I'm working on an epic thread covering that from all aspects but I think I'll take a detour back into JtR and HHH for a bit.

Well, as with any other aficionados or, "fanboys", we both have our reasons for thinking what we do about both cases.

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


Indeed, my good man. Are you familiar with the Axeman? If so, what are your thoughts? If you don't want to derail your own thread feel free to PM. It's hard to find knowledgeable aficionados in this field nowadays.

reply to post by Magnivea


I was not familiar with the Axeman, but after a brief perusal of wiki, I will be! Thanks for the heads up!

reply to post by ProfessorChaos


Very welcome! The biggest mystery of the 20th century in my opinion. Have fun!

Magnivea
reply to post by ProfessorChaos

 

Very welcome! The biggest mystery of the 20th century in my opinion. Have fun!

Just by reading his letter on the wiki page, I was inspired to write a "drabble" (100 word flash fiction), see what you think.

Play That Jazz Music

Play that jazz music, and then play it some more.
For if I hear it next Tuesday night, then on that night, I will kill no more.
Do not try to find me; to do so means death.
For every Orleanian knows, to see the Axeman, is to take not one more breath.
Right now, I grow weary; I will speak to you no more.
Play that jazz music next Tuesday night, or I will knock down your front door.
Keep your axes hidden; I'll bring my own.
I'll cave your skull in, inside your very home.

Sincerely,
The Axeman

And now, back to the regularly scheduled programming.... Jack the Ripper....

Magnivea
reply to post by ProfessorChaos

 

Very welcome! The biggest mystery of the 20th century in my opinion. Have fun!

The axeman of New Orleans was most likely something having to do with the mafia. The victims as I recall were mostly Italian grocers. It was a shakedown, I bet. As to The Ripper, I think Rumbelow and a couple of others have lost their minds for studying this for too long, lol. The cannon victims were clearly and for good reason considered by the medical examiners who viewed the bodies to be the work of a single person. This of course excludes Long Liz, who was more likely than not murdered by her boyfriend. Although a reporter may well have drummed up the name Jack the Ripper to sell papers, I firmly believe that Jack was a real individual and that he may very well have been Montague Druitt. His suicide and the end of the murders coincide nicely. And he fits the descriptions offered by several witnesses as well. I think people just disregard him because it's too easy. If it was not Druitt, my money is on a cop. Find me a cop who was :killed in the line of duty" after the Mary Kelly murder and I would offer that man up as a prime suspect.

reply to post by jaffo


While I agree that there are many factors which make Montague Druitt a good suspect, the very reason I think it's NOT him is because he committed suicide.

I am not a criminal profiler by any means, but the brutally of the ripper murders suggests to me someone who committed these acts of violence without any remorse whatsoever. If this is indeed the case, the odds that the murderer would then kill themselves would seem unlikely. Although one could start a conspiracy theory that Druitt was in fact JtR, but someone in the know snuffed him out, making it appear to be a suicide. I know, I may be reaching, but this IS ATS after all!

BTW, LOVE this thread! Thanks OP! The JtR case has always fascinated me.

meebabi
reply to post by jaffo

 

While I agree that there are many factors which make Montague Druitt a good suspect, the very reason I think it's NOT him is because he committed suicide.

I am not a criminal profiler by any means, but the brutally of the ripper murders suggests to me someone who committed these acts of violence without any remorse whatsoever. If this is indeed the case, the odds that the murderer would then kill themselves would seem unlikely. Although one could start a conspiracy theory that Druitt was in fact JtR, but someone in the know snuffed him out, making it appear to be a suicide. I know, I may be reaching, but this IS ATS after all!

BTW, LOVE this thread! Thanks OP! The JtR case has always fascinated me.

You essentially make the same point that I would have regarding Druitt. The Whitechapel murderer certainly had a sense of bravado that suicide doesn't coincide with. The murder angle that you postulated is possible, but I still don't believe that Druitt is the culprit.

ProfessorChaos

meebabi
reply to post by jaffo

 

While I agree that there are many factors which make Montague Druitt a good suspect, the very reason I think it's NOT him is because he committed suicide.

I am not a criminal profiler by any means, but the brutally of the ripper murders suggests to me someone who committed these acts of violence without any remorse whatsoever. If this is indeed the case, the odds that the murderer would then kill themselves would seem unlikely. Although one could start a conspiracy theory that Druitt was in fact JtR, but someone in the know snuffed him out, making it appear to be a suicide. I know, I may be reaching, but this IS ATS after all!

BTW, LOVE this thread! Thanks OP! The JtR case has always fascinated me.

You essentially make the same point that I would have regarding Druitt. The Whitechapel murderer certainly had a sense of bravado that suicide doesn't coincide with. The murder angle that you postulated is possible, but I still don't believe that Druitt is the culprit.

Absolutely fair points, no doubt. It's also possible that the investigator who stated that the killer's mind "completely broke down" after the Kelly murder was right and that Druitt just couldn't bear himself any longer. It's a puzzle we will chase to our graves, lol.

reply to post by jaffo


The only evidence pointing to the mafia was that some of the victims were Italian grocers, as you said. There were multiple reasons why that was not the reality, not the least of which was that the mafia would not have gone after the wives.

Druitt may well have been one of the murderers but what of the Ripper victims that were not a part of the 5, like Martha Tabram? There was no way he could have pulled that off. If I had to put money on it though, I would go with HHH and Aaron Kosminski.

My belief is that there were actually closer to 20 murders belonging to the Ripper but there is no way the Ripper was one man. The only thing I'm 100% certain of is HHH being involved.

Does anyone have any opinions regarding James Maybrick and the authenticity of the Jack the Ripper diary?

I think it was Roman Polanski.

yamammasamonkey
I think it was Roman Polanski.

I'd be on board with that idea, except for the fact that none of the vicitms were 13 year old girls. Well, that and the whole time travel conundrum.

ProfessorChaos

yamammasamonkey
I think it was Roman Polanski.

I'd be on board with that idea, except for the fact that none of the vicitms were 13 year old girls.

Lol'd.

With the inaccuracies (from news stories) and Scotland Yard's findings that the text had been altered to appear more Victorian, I'll say total hoax. I think the watch (probably found much earlier than 1993) inspired the diary.

I remember reading somewhere that the affadavits Barrett swore to included a small conspiracy involving the protuction of the watch as supporting evidence by someone they hired. I'm going to look for that.

Either way, the diary itself is a forgery I think.

my thoughts would be H.H. HOLMES......one sick puppy

I do wonder about the Walter Sickert angle, some of his art (to me) resembles the killings.
I haven't looked at the case as closely as others but I do seem to remember going off the Sickert angle but can't remember what turned me off.