When did Moderate Become an Epithet?

Snarl

One thing is certain ... the conservative base (Republican if you insist) is evolving.

-Cheers

More like devolving really.

KeliOnyx

Snarl

One thing is certain ... the conservative base (Republican if you insist) is evolving.

-Cheers

More like devolving really.

LOL
Touche!!

I think we have 3 major groups in America these days.

(Not among the Politicians...they are their own tribe, and they're the bad tribe on the Island which kinda infects everyone else on an ongoing basis, no one can or will stop.)


Among normal people tho? I think we have the Lunatic left, and the Right Reich (Religious Reich is what I've occasionally heard it referred to since I was a kid...and usually by people of Faith, fwiw). Then we have the majority of Americans who sit to the left or right of center for world view, but not so far from that center that they couldn't sit down and speak easily on issues ...if no one from those first two groups of nuts is in the room.

I used to think that everyone pretty well fell to one degree or another of those first two extremes or neither ..but that's not really true. We all have a world view, or how we see things by what we personally hold as values and standards in life. That, by nature, will fall right or left or the arbitrary lines drawn by academics who define us all by those labels.

It's the people who define themselves and their lives by the right/left world views that turn it into tribal following. It may just be what splits our nation in a way other issues couldn't the first time around at the rate it's all running.

Where is the group that really just wants the government to butt the eff out and leave us all the eff alone? Where is that group because it gets called extremist conservative these days.

I've gone to bed with Communists, Fascists, Liberals, Conservatives and even Moderates. They were great!

ketsuko
Where is the group that really just wants the government to butt the eff out and leave us all the eff alone? Where is that group because it gets called extremist conservative these days.

I just call that group being American.

Grimpachi

First, the frothing conservatives declared war on Halloween. Then, they declared war on the imagined war on Christmas.

This made me LOL for real. Conservative Christians can get in such a huff about nothing... The pastor at the church I grew up in said "Who cares if no one calls it Christmas? Or if they call it X-Mas? Being like Christ should be your life every single day of the year. You don't need a day for that. And if you do need a day for that, then maybe you should take a moment and re-examine your priorities." Seriously loved and respected that man.

But moving on, I grew up in a conservative christian household. My father was pretty reasonable about most things, but my mother is very... Emotional about everything. She would get so worked up over these kinds of things... A lot of fear and a small amount of hate (thankfully not much...) developed in her from extreme conservative talk. Mark Davis, Sean Hannity, and Rush Limbaugh were on the radio it seemed 24/7. And while I don't necessarily disagree with everything they have to say, I always found it crazy how they would just go on these crazy crusades against a specific person or topic, just to leave it alone and move onto something else the next week, or even next day. Lots of fear-mongering going on. Regardless, as a result I held the Republican party as some kind of ideal for most of my childhood.

I've since come to realize that both parties are pretty much just two sides of the same coin. In my opinion, Satan has both Liberals and Conservatives in his pocket, so to speak. The hate perpetuated from one side to the other is inexplicable. It's like they don't even regard each other as human... Which is a tragedy really, as everyone deserves some measure of respect, even if you disagree with them. The anti-human side of either party's agenda is sickening.

I will say, however, that I understand the uneasiness of having a group that promotes (even if in a limited scope) abortion and alternative "gender and sexual identities" tied to the Girl Scouts. Disagreement and open criticism about anything is perfectly acceptable. But is it acceptable to go with the all-out, hate-filled, war-like approach? Not so much. Even if the far right considers someone their enemy, they would do well to do as Jesus said:
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 5:44-45a)

reply to post by Grimpachi


When did Moderate Become an Epithet?

I think it's been a long time in coming, but the process really sped up when President Obama got elected and GOP lost the art of compromise. There for a while, they even declared it a "dirty word."

Since then, they seem to have adopted a "never say lose policy." One where they actually proclaimed their "number one policy goal" was to insure that President Obama was a "one term POTUS" and openly adopted a policy of obstructionism, on a scale never before seen in american politics, as their primary tool for accomplishing that stated goal.

At that moment, they pretty much openly declared that this "stated" goal had more priority than any other. I guess that would mean that the business of running the country was at best, priority number two.

Another big development that's taking it's toll on the GOP, (or moderates as you call them) is the internet. The speed and transparency of information available on the internet today, makes disclosing the hypocrisy of the GOP an almost daily occurrence.

For instance; They say they want the government out of our business. At first I believed them. Then I came to realize that they were being a little more "literal" than I first thought. It was soon apparent that what they actually wanted was for the government to get out of "their business" of "getting into our business."

IMO, it has become apparent that they really want is for government to get out of "their businesses" so they can exercise their God given right to influence "our business" by: Restricting our contraceptive choices in workplace healthcare insurance policies, Allowing for open discrimination based on sexual and/or marital preferences, Removal of EPA authority giving polluters impunity to destroy our environment, etc...etc...etc...

I feel like I'm just exposing the "tip of the iceberg" here. I know they all say that politics is like a pendulum that always comes back to center, but this time I'm not sure that the pendulum hasn't punched through the "right" side of the clock. Might even be on a trajectory that will take it "right" over the top, like "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest!"

The more I look at it I really get the sense that both extreme sides are very prone to using emotional arguments rather than common sense solutions. Over my years on the internet , it seems whether it be a supposedly right wing or left wing leaning site, more often than not the positions seem to center around emotional issues, whether the be civil rights or racism or illegal immigration or what have you. It really does seem that moderates on both sides use more common sense when looking for solutions to our issues. The problem is, is that these solutions usually involve compromise, and for those emotionally invested in that particular issue compromise is unacceptable.

conservative political and social ideology has always lagged behind world norms in these areas. It is just sticking out more and more lately when most of the world (and American society) is searching for ways to advance human understanding of the world around us, while increasing compassion and tolerance.

Thankfully, this ideology in America is dying.

The rest of the world has some work to do in areas like the middle east and Africa.

Right, Left, progressive, conservative, moderate, Christian Reich, Lefty wackos, Tea Party and OWS.....

We still have the best damn government money can buy. It's the American way!

reply to post by Flatfish


And what about the ones who tell you - No, you can't sell that here without a license. I'm sorry but you didn't include the proper food in your child's lunch, so we threw it out and no you have to pay us for the crap we gave your kid. Yes, you had insurance before, but we decided that even though you liked it, we didn't, so now you have to pay twice as much for something that's actually crap and that your doctor whom you've seen for x-many years and like won't accept because it's crap because we know better. No, you can't ever buy a drink bigger than this. How dare you presume think you should have the right to decide ...

You claim that one side is the nanny state, but it seems the others are just as guilty of it only worse because they actually crawl up inside my daily life and make all the tiny little choices that make life worth living. One of these days, they'll be telling me how many times per day I can pass gas, too, and likely have me hooked up with a meter to measure how much CO2 I breathe out so they can tax that. After all, it's pollution ...

reply to post by Snarl


You do realize only people on the right denigh evolution. You've never heard a liberal back intelligent design. Of course I'm not saying everyone with conservative views disavows science, just that almost to a man, all that do are conservatives. As example the Kock brothers I've always heard are social libertarians who care nothing about gay marriage or abortion. However they make up most of the tea parties funding are just trying to get as much deregulation as possible. I mean hell, 24% of the people in Mississippi and 21% of the people in Arkansas who voted in the last election thought interracial marriage should be illegal. Not that they wouldn't marry someone from a different race, but that no one should be allowed to!

So the GOP May be evolving, but if they are it's a crazy slow process that makes mr Darwin's theory look like light speed.

reply to post by ArtemisE

Nice post!

You've never heard a liberal back intelligent design.

But, you've never met my sister-in-law.

Moderate went to the grave for several reasons:

1. The severe change in where Moderate stands.

When my father was in college, he was considered a moderate. Now, most people's ideology changes because they make their first decisions by feelings, more than by examining the facts. Problem is that my father wasn't one of those, although he was a "Young Republican". So, since my father tended to reason everything out, the overwhelming majority of his stances did not change for 30 years. He's now considered an "Extreme Right", too extreme right to follow the modern "Tea Party" (when it first came out, it suited him just fine). If ANYTHING, some of his views shifted more to the LEFT, and he's portrayed as extreme RIGHT. SMH.

2. Something sad happened with the "Young Republican" movement.

You got a bunch of people who CLAIMED conservative or moderately conservative viewpoints, but only practiced extremely liberal tendencies. This time, I'm not using this as "left" or "right" terms. I'm talking about the speed at which things are done. These people brought about very rash changes, and did little to put the breaks on the "speedwagon"'. (Frankly, other than the extreme south, this happened to the Dems. some 20 years before.) Bringing radical change to a group that is usually the brakes to our government ideology causes a dramatic shift in the way things work. (Now, back to politically speaking.) It left us with people who other than the title they choose fitting another party's claimed ideology. We call them RINOS.

3. We only see what's being touted.

There's moderates in both parties. There's moderates outside both parties. But what is being expressed in the upper tier doesn't match what the constituents or even lower level politicians are thinking/feeling/doing. We're being sold a pipe dream of what these 2 factions should be doing, what they should be thinking, what the big issues should be, ect. And being people who insist on paying attention to supposed leaders more than we should be paying attention to ourselves?

4. Selfish interests.

Then there's those of us who only support our next government paycheck. It can come as Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, Social Security (yes, we paid for and earned this, but the government stole it out from under us--it's theirs now, for all that we pay into it), ect. Our selfish fears make it far easier to keep us from playing nice, sharing, or even thinking reasonably. It keeps us continuing isolationist practices. and it feeds the machine.

5. What's worth uniting on?

There's very little being touted in the political machine that is WORTH finding an agreement on. Some of those attempted compromises are literally going to be the death of us. And we're lucky if we can only have half the population aware of the fact that sometimes compromise compromises the entire structure.


Really, it's a multi-headed problem. And I'm sure someone can find a couple more problems to tack on.

One man's moderate can be another man's extremist.

Moderation can only be defined in relation to our own set of values.
A "moderate" ancient roman was guy who did'nt hit his slaves too much.
From a european perspective, the american "liberals" are actually very right wing.

I'll say this though, when religious nuttiness becomes the norm in the USA, the rest of us will be in very big trouble.
Iran ? Give me a break.
Your neo-crusaders will have enough firepower to burn life of the surface of the world.

reply to post by ArtemisE


The next time you make a post about how much smarter liberals are than conservatives ... please hit the spell check.

olaru12
We still have the best damn government money can buy. It's the American way!

I don't know if you were being serious or sarcastic but truer words have never been said.

rupertg
A new poll shows that only 43% of republicans believe in evolution. Makes sense, considering the party hasn't evolved in 50 years.

Neither do those democratic social engineers.

After the last 70 years of trying to change the enviornment to suit the person instead of people adapting to it.

reply to post by ketsuko


How very conservative of you. Don't address my points. Attack my spelling. Faux news much