Deciphering the Pagan Stones

The z bar represents the process of initiation, one circle represents this world, the other circle represents the other world and the link between is the bridge which joins this world to the netherworld, that link is also represented by the snake.

reply to post by Logarock


Hi Logarock, glad you came by!
Those do look extremely similar.
I had no idea that spirals and knotwork were so widespread amongst ancient artists until you mentioned it earlier.

Service and Bradbery (2), write that the spiral refers to:

'...the belly and navel (Neumann 1955). It is also seen as representing a Navel of the earth - the Omphalos...E.A.S Butterworth in 'The Tree at the Navel of the Earth' calls it the Omphalos sign...now seen as very ancient and very widespread (Roscher 1913), This fits well into the idea of megalith as places of interchange between the cosmic forces of the sky and earth'. (2)

Ancient Wisdom

The Anasazi spiral from New Mexico.

It does seem more and more that the Pict stones were displaying astronomical representations, which -astoundingly -may have been known world wide at that time.

LUXUS

The z bar represents the process of initiation, one circle represents this world, the other circle represents the other world and the link between is the bridge which joins this world to the netherworld, that link is also represented by the snake.

Hi Luxus, I'm glad you came by too!
What you say makes a lot of sense, how do you know this? Does it remind you of something else, as if you've seen it before?

reply to post by beansidhe


Here's more on the anasazi sun dagger

This pile of seemingly natural rocks is the Fajada Buttes Sun Dagger Calendar.

Near the top of an isolated butte in Chaco Canyon, New Mexico, three large stone slabs collimate sunlight in vertical patterns of light on two spiral petroglyphs carved on the cliff behind them. The light illuminates the spirals each day near noon in a changing pattern throughout the year and marks the solstices and equinoxes with particular images. At summer solstice a narrow vertical form of light moves downward near noon through the center of the larger spiral. At equinox and winter solstice corresponding forms of light mark the spirals. We found that the relationship between the shape and orientation of the slabs and the resultant light patterns on the cliff is a complex one and required a sophisticated appreciation of astronomy and geometry for its realization. The site is unique in employing the varying height of the midday sun during the year to provide readings of solar declination. In this respect it is clearly different in concept from the many archeoastronomical sites throughout the ancient New and Old Worlds that tell the passage of the year by marking the rising and setting points of the sun and moon (1).


More on the butte itself

Fajada Butte stands prominently in the south entrance of Chaco Canyon (Fig. 2), rising 135 meters above the valley floor to an elevation of 2018 meters. The butte is difficult to climb, and there is neither water nor soil on it. Yet from bottom to top are many examples of Indian rock art carved and painted on the cliffs (7), the ruins of a number of small Pueblo buildings, and countless pottery shards. This concentration of remains attests to its active use by the Indians. The butte is a natural site for astronomical observations, with its clear views to distant horizons (4).





The last 10 m to the summit of the butte on the southeast face is formed by a vertical cliff with a narrow ledge at its foot. The assembly we will describe consists of an unusual arrangement of three stone slabs 2 to 3 m in height, standing on edge on this ledge and leaning against the cliff. The slabs are slightly off the vertical (Fig. 3) and fan out radially (Fig. 4). They are close together, separated by only 10 centimeters at their inner edges, but do not touch. The slabs keep the cliff face behind them in shadow except near midday, when the sun shines between them to cast patterns of light (8).


Again anasazi rock art comedy into play.





Two spiral petroglyphs are carved (''pecked'') on the cliff immediately behind the slabs (Fig. 5). The larger and more prominent spiral is located behind the opening of slabs one and two. It has 9 1/2 turns and is elliptical in shape (34 by 41 cm). The smaller spiral (9 by 13 cm) is above and to the left behind the opening between slabs two and three. It has 2 1/2 turns and a loop extends out of its upper right side. The spirals can be seen in their entirety only from the right of slab one. From this position, the larger spiral appears circular, suggesting that this was the intended viewpoint (Fig. 6). The length of time the sun shines between the slabs onto the spirals varies from 18 minutes near noon at summer solstice (when the sun is highest in the sky) to 3 hours or more at winter solstice (when the sun is lowest)


Not surprisingly, moonlight generally creates the same patterns on the spirals as the sun, on nights when the moon is between first and third quarter. The periodic changes in these patterns reflect the complexity of the moon's apparent motion (9), and certain combinations of patterns are associated with specific lunar eclipses.


Not only does this calendar track the sun but it does so for the moon as well.
The sun dagger as it pierces the spiral.





The small spot of sunlight can just be seen at the top.

The light dagger moves downwards.











One aspect of the genius of this system is that it i symetrical on either side of the equinoxes/solstices,
and it works in moonlight as well


My battery is dying,
I hope I've given everyone something to ponder

All of the sourced material was from this site.

www.solsticeproject.org...

reply to post by punkinworks10


Not sure why the pics didn't come up,
Here is the link to that thread

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by punkinworks10


A lunar and solar sun dagger, that really is incredible, thank you for sharing this punkinworks.
Spirals...time? milky way?


All of these findings seem to suggest that is highly likely that the Picts knew a lot about astronomy, but somehow we have 'forgotten' that they knew that.

Dr Cunningham (as uncovered by Foxhound) suggests a global knowledge was shared around 15000 bc, centred around the Gulf of Tonkin, Asia...which I'm going to look into.

reply to post by beansidhe



Its an intuitive guess based on what I know and feel regarding the celts and what was important to them.

reply to post by beansidhe


Hi Beansidhe,
The more I read on archeoastronamy , the more it looks like, to me any way, that the spirals represent a comet, as viewed from head on. The swastika symbology from the east likely has the same origins.


I'm also leaning to the fact that early calendars, from before agriculture , are to time the twice yearly arrival of the terrifying meteor showers that plagued mankind from the late Pleistocene through the Holocene.

beansidhe
reply to post by punkinworks10

 

A lunar and solar sun dagger, that really is incredible, thank you for sharing this punkinworks.

Spirals...time? milky way?

I was watching a(nother) programme with the lovely Neil Oliver the other day, Ancient Britain I think, (it included him visiting Maes Howe of all places...ask and ye will receive, hehe...you were right, very interesting, thanks again for informing me of that site), and I think it was at Newhaven, but he was waxing lyrical about a spiral illustration, in this particular case though they were interlocking spirals, but he said they represented continuity, there being no beginning and no end. In that context, and trusting the word of the Mr Oliver, I think that your guess of 'time' is rather spot on.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Hi there! If Neil says it's time, then it's time in my book!
But why? Why would women and men go to all the bother of etching that onto stone as a permanent reminder of time?

As a predictor?

I'm also leaning to the fact that early calendars, from before agriculture , are to time the twice yearly arrival of the terrifying meteor showers that plagued mankind from the late Pleistocene through the Holocene.

Wow.

reply to post by punkinworks10

Holocene meteor impacts:

Also disruption in climate (tree-ring data) at 1628 BC, 1159 BC, 208 BC (small event), 44 BC (small event), 536 AD (worldwide climatic anomalies and atmospheric dust), 829 AD (impact in Atlantic ocean: Mayans disappeared from lowlands; climatic anomalies)

207 BC and 536 BC www.astronomy.com... and www3.interscience.wiley.com... clear evidence for a land impact in Northern Europe of a fragmented cosmic body, during the time of Celts. Dust ejected caused climatic aberrations. Crater in Chiemgau, Germany, 1 km wide comet fragmented leaving many craters in a field of about 60 x 30 km wide, of which the biggest crater is 370 m wide. Probably occurred in 207 BC, as there is evidence of debris falling from the sky from Roman authors. In 536 BC, some attribute the climatic disruption to Tambora eruption, others to a air explosion of a 500 m wide comet. The effect lasted about 20 years of worldwide disruption.

Astrological transits

The very earliest developments at the Stonehenge – dating from 3500 - 2800B.C. – were used to predict when meteor showers were to occur.
The stars, the planets, the moon and the sun 5000 years ago would all look much the same as today, but not the comets and meteors. The current interglacial period (the Holocene) is warmer than the long-term norm as a result of a heightened influx of cometary dust. There is much evidence for this, including lunar rocks returned by the Apollo Astronauts, which indicate that the flux of dust near Earth has been much elevated over the past 10 millennia.

The source of this dust is believed to be a broken-up giant comet, which has spawned a huge complex of material in the inner solar system including numerous asteroids, meteoroid streams, the comet –Encke, which is now active.

Predicting meteor showers

Meteor showers could be the perseids, the geminids, or the taurids according to a source I quickly checked. We know the Picts had bulls on the stones, something twinned (?) for gemini and I have no idea what for perseus? Maybe they would have known it by a different name?

Punkinworks, I think that it is a phenomenally brilliant idea. They were watching the sky for their own safety. We still do.
Somehow that knowledge got 'lost' ie appropriated from the common man and an elite would have kept the information?

LUXUS
reply to post by beansidhe

 

Its an intuitive guess based on what I know and feel regarding the celts and what was important to them.

edit on 5-2-2014 by LUXUS because: (no reason given)

Looks like it was a pretty damn good one!
If Foxhound and punkinworks are right, that these were star maps, then otherworld suddenly takes on quite a different meaning. It makes the possibility of death really quite, well real. Reverence to nature would be completely sensible, if it had the power to wipe out your family, your community at regular intervals.

beansidhe
reply to post by punkinworks10

 

Dr Cunningham (as uncovered by Foxhound) suggests a global knowledge was shared around 15000 bc, centred around the Gulf of Tonkin, Asia...which I'm going to look into.

Just checked out the Gulf of Tonkin only to discover...it was precisely at this place an American false flag attack happened, to bolster support for the Vietnam war????

Naaaargh, I'm going to start channelling David Icke in a minute, this is all getting far too odd.

The Gulf of Tonkin 'Incident'

reply to post by beansidhe


Please no, anybody but David Ike,

If you think from a manufacturing side to produce the engravings was a feat in itself,

The hours of labour to collect and produce these diagrams must have meant it was driven by a superior agenda,

What was that agenda ? we can only speculate,
To me it could possibly be the reason mankind was created/stored as a sort off interstellar DNA bank.

A harvest area if you like to keep the original building blocks of homosapian man safe from extra terrestrial manipulation.

I used Ridley Scotts film Prometheus for good reason.

Space jockeys/Engineers.. good guys

reply to post by foxhound2459


Lol! It's ok, I'll punch myself repeatedly in the face if that happens!

You're right, we can only speculate and your theory is certainly not unheard of. It's definitely an exciting one to contemplate.

Something seems certain though, that the knowledge of these stones was suppressed, for want of a better word.
And here's something else to consider. The carved stone balls may have represented...atoms.

Seems like somebody, somewhere knew an awful lot more than we have been led to believe.

Ancient origins

Hey Beansi GREAT site & wonderful educated responses....S&F!
I saw where they use the beasti as Nessie from Loch Ness. I saw some references
to that but I think you guys mentioned it already.
This is in reference to the "star maps" that is being discussed & I hope I'm not
repeating. I apologize for having the "PICTures" not load onto this page.

1. Reinhardt Rock Showing section with Pole Star
The ancient navigational symbol (Circle "X") for Polaris, "The North Star" can be seen in the lower middle of this
photo just above the bend of the rock. This angle also shows that the rock was broken from a bigger rock. Note the
incomplete carvings ending at rock's edge.
www.carvedinstone.us...

2. Close Up of Circle "X" the ancient navigational symbol for the North Star
Out-of-focus, but still clearly recognizable as the pole star, this symbol is the last star in the Ursa Minor Constellation, the
stars of which are in position matching the Constellation found on the actual star chart of the North Georgia night sky.
Wrapping around Ursa Minor is the Constellation "Draco" also found on both the rock and the Star chart, but in reverse
for chart making..
www.carvedinstone.us...

3. Opposite End of The Reinhardt Rock
Showing stars which are part of the Constellation Draco. The more circles around a "Star-pock", the brighter the
star. The two largest circles shown are the anchor stars of Draco and correspond with its two brightest stars.
www.carvedinstone.us...

4. Detail of Rock Images
made by a geological assessment team. Standing above the rock, this is what you would see. The rock is carved as
a "negative" and therefore reversed from the image of a finished map.
www.carvedinstone.us...

5. Reinhardt Rock Reversed
to show the actual Georgia night sky after a chart impression is made.
www.carvedinstone.us...

6. Detail of the North Georgia Skies
This graphic shows the Constellation Draco and Ursa Minor (center of the image). The North Star is located at the
upward tail end of Ursa Minor.

Source www.carvedinstone.us...

Cheers
Ektar

reply to post by Ektar


Ektar! Welcome!



Look at those linked spirals! Almost like this:



What a brilliant contribution. It just seems more and more likely that these stones were star maps. If other cultures had them, why not the picts?

So if they were trying to convey something about the constellations, which ones could they be portraying?

Oooh - a thought - I wonder if the Z could be not lightening, as some scholars have suggested, but the path of a comet - a bolt from the sky?

reply to post by beansidhe


Thank you! What I thought was also interesting was they were saying
the more circles around those stars the brighter they were...it caught me eye.

Your threads are highly educational with out all the craziness & therefore
more enjoyable. I will see if I can find other stuff when I get a chance.

I came across that info when looking for Pict carvings of Nessie...so just by fluke
& noticed the astronomy relations.

Cheers
Ektar

reply to post by Ektar


It would be great if you could.
Ektar, you are a star!

reply to post by beansidhe

This is the forsythe petroglyph in Georgia





It might be an account of the 530-540 AD series of impacts that kicked off the dark ages. There us a proposed Grendel crater off the sw coast of Norway.

lostworlds.org...