Deciphering the Pagan Stones

reply to post by Ramcheck


No rush, Ram, I've been busy too, but I've got a bit more time coming up

reply to post by Logarock


I suspect it may have actually been that very stone I was thinking of, as I can't find any others. Or perhaps I just dreamt the whole thing. To me it's almost certainly a 1st century Roman Gallic or Imperial Gallic helmet.

reply to post by Ramcheck



Yea looks good.

Logarock
reply to post by Ramcheck

 

Yea looks good.

I wasn't sure whether that sarcasm or not

I should have put them by a pic of the original for comparison:







Just my opinion as I say, it may well not be. I refer to the centred spike and the 'rose' notches and the 'banding'. The second pic is later 1st century early 2nd century but you get the gist.

Not moaning or anything, just a small request really. Please don't star me unless you are sure I am making a valid point or I am correct in my theory, opinion, assumption, guess.. whatever. It keeps me right and will help people who come across this thread later distinguish fact from my speculative gibberish.

reply to post by Ramcheck



All we have is a point and what looks like a helmet. We don't have full view and really need a full view to determine a design. Besides this thing had a triangle on top not just a stub or point. This could be Thracian or Illyrian for that matter. We cant see if it has those flexible side flaps or solid all the way down.

reply to post by Logarock


I'm can't really argue with that, as I say it's just my opinion. It could be anything.

Ramcheck
Not moaning or anything, just a small request really. Please don't star me unless you are sure I am making a valid point or I am correct in my theory, opinion, assumption, guess.. whatever. It keeps me right and will help people who come across this thread later distinguish fact from my speculative gibberish.

We are all speculating at this point for the most part. Great things start with speculation.

reply to post by Logarock


I'd like think it's at least helpful one way or the other for just one person. As far as speculation goes I probably speculate more than most, I admit. I am obsessed with Etymology and I am convinced there are unknown depths beneath the accepted terms for many of our place names and much of our Saxonised terminology.

I could be completely off course, but this is the beauty of personal research and not just C&P from wiki all the time. As you said I think everyone is making a contribution, be it speculative or factual. It's such a horribly brushed over subject, it has been buried and scarred by dozens of generations all with their own agenda right since the Roman times and the so-called disappearance of the Picts, and Celts in Europe in general towards the end of the first century. It should be interesting for everyone I think, to unravel the Roman lies and hypocrisy.

Dis Wik, I am completely blown off course, I am researching the Scotussaej / Scotussa. The Scotussaej Celtic tribe were recorded as being obliterated by Alexander in Macedonia. I'm not convinced. This is 'Scythian' territory at the best of times. It's actually ridiculous I even have to be looking for a proper etymology of the name of my country, ridiculous. But there ya go, this is the world we live in. We have one or two recorded speculations as to it's origins obviously, none impress me.

reply to post by Ramcheck



Did you check out the connection between Alba (Scotland), Alba (Italy) and Albania? Apparently the alba- were a Celtic tribe that got around a good deal.

reply to post by beansidhe


Wow thank you for the share definitely going to read through! Sorta googled the subject before but couldnt find anything!

reply to post by Stuprimori


Not at all, you're most welcome, hope you don't mind the beansidhe overkill, lol!
If this is something you're interested in, let us know your thoughts when you've caught up, they would be most welcome.

Ramcheck
Not moaning or anything, just a small request really. Please don't star me unless you are sure I am making a valid point or I am correct in my theory, opinion, assumption, guess.. whatever. It keeps me right and will help people who come across this thread later distinguish fact from my speculative gibberish.

Oh, that's probably me, I can't bear not to star posts, in case people think they've been overlooked. Sometimes, admittedly, I even flag threads secretly when they've got none, because I can't stand to see them neglected, lol!
Anyway, Log's right, all great things start with speculation and what is this if not a collection of wonderings and some occasional bullseyes (touchdowns). Everything's valid, until proven otherwise and we can't prove otherwise unless someone takes the initiative and brings something to the table, you know?

I had a look at helmets (if that is even a helmet - it could be a bow and arrow) and plenty of celtic ones kind of fit the bill - but -they would be centuries out of date (maybe?) since they're 2nd and 3rd c BC. So I'm not sure where to go with this (helmet) at the moment. Celtic 'tribes' sounds like a good line to take, and I agree it's disgusting that we don't know this already, but we'll just keep on asking the right questions

Logarock
reply to post by Ramcheck

 

Did you check out the connection between Alba (Scotland), Alba (Italy) and Albania? Apparently the alba- were a Celtic tribe that got around a good deal.

There's also the Albici, from the south east of France (Basque types?), whom I'm going to try and find out about, or Virgil's story in the Aeneid about the Trojans from Alba Longa, of whom Brutus was one, and according to some, who later (well 200BC ish) came to Britain. One of his sons was called Alban, and he was given Scotland to rule.
Not sure about either of these right now, but they're a start.

reply to post by Ramcheck


I've just read that the Edoni tribe were part of the Thracian collective too - possibly the beginnings of Edinburgh /Dun Edin?

Here's a Thracian bridle bit which you could mistake quite easily for Pictish:



I've been thinking about the beastie, and I'll write something in a bit when I find the picture I'm looking for.

Na ha!
This is worth a look:

BRAC website

It's basically a photo catalogue of 'British rock art', but what is very interesting is the difference in the stones. The cup and ring marks are found throughout Britain, but the double disc is much more common in Northumbria and Scotland. Maybe another coincidence, but at this point I would be willing to argue that the Pict double disc comes from this, from the 'indigenous' art of Scotland.

Arbroath:


Cathcart, Glasgow:


Letham Grange:


Arbroath:

beansidhe

Logarock
reply to post by Ramcheck

 

Did you check out the connection between Alba (Scotland), Alba (Italy) and Albania? Apparently the alba- were a Celtic tribe that got around a good deal.

There's also the Albici, from the south east of France (Basque types?), whom I'm going to try and find out about, or Virgil's story in the Aeneid about the Trojans from Alba Longa, of whom Brutus was one, and according to some, who later (well 200BC ish) came to Britain. One of his sons was called Alban, and he was given Scotland to rule.
Not sure about either of these right now, but they're a start.

Yeah there are a lot of Alba's and Albans. I think it's a common word in many languages, in Spanish and Italian it means Dawn, in French it is Aube. In Romanian and other Indo-European languages it just means White, the same as it means in Scottish Gaelic. Although we pronounce it Ala'pa.

As demonstrated by this Runrig song

Correction to the above post. Alba in Scottish Gaelic does not mean White, it just means Scotland. White in Gaelic is Gael.

reply to post by Ramcheck


Oh, great tunes!
I'm a bit sidetracked with the rock art, but I haven't forgotten the beastie. I'm wondering if it's hovering for a reason. There's an Egyptian image of Nut (I think) stretching over someone, and she represents the sky. When I saw this I wondered if our beastie might be hovering for the same reason - it's representing something astrological? Just the way it's encompassing the tiny animals.



Like this:



Anyway, I'm trying to find dates for the rock art, but it's proving difficult.
There are lots of 'Alb' tribes about. I wonder if they have the same ancient root, or if its just a common word?