The Mystery Religion – Jesus (The Sun of God)

There still haven't been any believers come in here? Not even one? I think the silence on their part speaks volumes!

Seems as though you've left them speechless, that's a good sign my friend and speaks to the quality of the presentation. I look forward to your upcoming threads.

UB2120
reply to post by EsotericGod

 

Check out the work of Robert Sarmast. He created a documentary titled "Secrets of Jesus Christ".

Basically he said that Jesus purposely used the existing myth's to make his message easier to receive in various parts of the world. He makes a pretty compelling case.

Here is a link to it: (www.youtube.com...)

Just because someone wrote a book does not mean the contents of the book are true. Robert Sarmast does not have the original data let alone for his conclusions. IT is only his theory. Trying to make a living writing books. Nothing more.

Simply because a Christian does not respond "towards your various atheist approaches" does not mean you have silenced us. Sometimes silence is the best answer when answering ignorant accusations.

reply to post by Jesuslives4u

Just because someone wrote a book does not mean the contents of the book are true.

Thank you! This is what I've been telling Christians about the bible for a while.

Are you a troll account? It sure seems like it.

reply to post by EsotericGod


I might agree and I usually do not touch these topics because everyone has their own belief and opinion and more than likely whatever you bring in a forum is not going to change one iota of their belief nor is making taunts just because you do not get a desired reply to your topic, I say this generically because I have seen that sort of baiting before and it is not directed towards anyone in particular, but I have to point out that you have a painting called "The Last Supper" painted nearly 1500 years after Christ, now how is this art and depiction even germane to Christ, did he give divine inspiration to put these codes into some work by Da Vinci ? his teachings and his days of existence prior to his death? any symbolism in art are embedded by those during that period when it was painted who would like to show you somehow that Christ was representing in some veiled way nature worship , as clever as this and many other stories are, his word tells you otherwise and also warns of these very things, so how could he be saying one thing and doing another? it just would not make any sense.

Most of the renaissance thinkers and even the age of reason were when people were saying use reason and not rely on religious teachings, if anything is outside the scope or common sense of reason it surely cannot exist or be and created the litmus test for those who believed in reason and common sense above religious dogma or spiritual thinking based on the Christian Gospels.

The only close case I would say might give weight to the theory is if we could find some evidence of the secret teachings to his disciples might have been linked to anything magical or having to do with nature or ritual, which I am not sure you will find anything about this, unless it was destroyed or is buried deep under the Vatican in their library.

We know that most of the real Sun Worship cults or Saturnalia did not take fruition until nearly 300 years after Christ and really took foothold with Constantine, again after 300 AD.

So with that I know someone will say the Egyptians worshiped nature and the Sun, that is correct, but all in all the Sun worshipers can't seem to agree on whether it is our Sun, Saturn or Sirius that is centric to their father symbol, well we know that the Egyptians and their ways were strongly warned against and were the nemesis of the Hebrews, but he also warned against much of the idolatry practiced by the religion of early Judaism which of course dealt with nature, the celestial influence, planets etc and of course the later influence of the kabala, magic and sorcery which of course Christ specifically taught against and spelled out the consequences for engaging in them.

Now, the only way I can agree with your theory is that yes, there are those who sought to use the teachings of Christ but these were not really followers of the teachings of Christ so they twisted them into this occult understanding of nature and also as we know use gnostic duality to somehow say Christ the Son, was the Sun and he never existed as a real person on earth, again I won't make an argument about that , because either you believe or you do not, I can't convince anyone to change their belief base upon my own understanding or if they do not agree, belittle their personal opinion.

3NL1GHT3N3D1

There still haven't been any believers come in here? Not even one? I think the silence on their part speaks volumes!

What there is to discuss ? All i have read is the same old stuff from the New-Age crew.

Seems as though you've left them speechless, that's a good sign my friend and speaks to the quality of the presentation.

Speechless no. But there is nothing new to be discussed, that haven´t been discussed before. And yes i liked his/her thread.

Peace

After reading the The Emerald Tablets of Toth, I likened Christ to a "resurrected" Sun-Ra for the sake of this current civilization's mentor/"saviour"/"messiah"/guiding light!!
There's quite a bit of astrology in the Bible.
GREAT investigating!

reply to post by Seed76


I was thinking the same thing. Quite a complicated framework built upon a foundation of erroneous assumptions. I would take the time to explain it all to a friend, but here? Nah, too much like changing the tires on a bus. It can be done, but the effort just isn't worth it.

Son and Sun? Come on. Similar spelling in a language that didn't even exist at the time is hardly a solid linguistic argument. At least compare the Hebrew, or Greek if you must.

Oh, and for the last time, the bible isn't a book. It is a collection of scriptures that are selected by a group of men from a larger collection, and then bound together. Each scripture is a book unto itself. Each book has one or more editions made by one or more human authors.

The first mystery religion naturally started before the other ones existed. Check the dates, and you'll find that to be true. It follows that the first mystery religion started where organised civilisation started - Sumar. Since the Hebrew scriptures recorded the oral traditions handed down from that time, we know who actually started the first mystery religion and his name was Nimrod; until after the tower of Babel incident at least and then his name changed into many different ones as there were many different languages.

Paul speaks of the musterion, or mysteries of Christ. They are: The creation of the one new man, Christ in you is the hope of glory, and the two shall become one flesh in regards to Christ and the ecclesia. These speak of divinization, or theosis. Christianity is very much a mystery religion. Just like mystery religions there is a veil, multiple veils, but one specifically is that of Babylonian Design. The veil between the inner court and the Holy of Holies. This veil is likened to the flesh. And Paul also says "and we all with unveiled faces are reflecting the glory of the Lord as in a mirror, and we are being transfigured into his likeness, from glory to glory".

Sanchoniothon claims that the heirophants of Egypt told Alexander the Great the great secret behind the veil of the Egyptian mysteries. That the gods were actually men.

Paul says that he (well its implied it was him) was taken into the third heaven which is the equivalent of the Holy of Holies. There he was shown the great mystery that had been hidden from ages past, that men are gods.

When Paul speaks of the veil he relates it to a darkened mind, which relates very much to this " and you who were formerly enemies IN YOUR MINDS".

The only separation between God and man is in the mind of man. That is the mystery of Christ.

reply to post by EsotericGod


Really, really nice job. You laid everything out in an easy to grasp format and explained things thoroughly!

I really enjoy reading theories about religion so this topic pulled me in from the beginning. I don't have much to add except that you have made me want to start digging through all of this other information and re-read the Bible so I can see if I can spot any other similarities. Also, I look forward to your thread about Lucifer. I'm curious as to what your viewpoint is.

Welcome to ATS. I hope you enjoy your time here!

reply to post by UnderGetty


I'd have to say that if you have a hard time explaining it away then the theory has some weight behind it. If it isn't true it would be easily explained as such. The parallels are there, Christians just refuse to see them because it would demean their faith and show the sand that it is built on.

The passage you made reference to about seven kings, and it clearly describes them as being related to nations. Also these nations are probably related to the split of Alexander the Greats empire(the goat in revelation). As far as all the other things you lay claim to it seems you are taking a hodgepodge of many different religions and thus becoming very confused. According to your own math and the fact that Revelations deals with the end of the world then the earth would have to be incredibly young, while it is probably 2-4 billion years old. The pagan incorporations in christian dogma which has also been referred to in this post have no known place in the Bible. They do however have a place in the catholic church, which is probably from the time of Constantine. He probably did these things to make incorporation of christianity easier for himself and the population(no revolts). Easter/Ishtar and what have you. The people in this thread also seem pretty confrontational, despite not really revealing anything that is factual, or even remotely interesting. This is probably why people didn't respond. But no offense. In the movie Pi, this guy is going crazy for this particular number, and his wise man/guru tells him that when you look for the number you begin to see it everywhere, thus taking a bath like Archimedes and relaxing may be in order. Same thing could possibly apply here. Eureka

Through my research on the religions of old (Sumer/Mesop., Egyptian, Hindu, Hebrew etc.) I've come to the personal conclusion that at a time long ago there was a civilization (Atlantis, Lemuria, Mu or what have you) that once thrived and was interconnected throughout the earth. We all know the tale about how that civilization came to an end.

My guess is that they were of two kinds as we are; with good intentions, and with bad intentions.

Now it seems as though if one researches these things(the religions and their myths) thoroughly enough one begins to see a pattern that it's all the same religion. Because their language was based more on action reference and interpretation through context as opposed to our thorough narration, they had an even more multi-faceted language than most of ours are today.
Because of that, one can read multiple, sometimes dozen of things out of a single word, sentence or a paragraph (good example is "ehyeh asher ehyeh").

Now it seems as though that the power hungry in the world all throughout history have kept hidden both sides of the coin:

1. The mystery religion of the world (nature, torah, the law, universe) which is more outward than inward but deals somewhat on the inward through manipulation of our qualities.

2. The mystery religion of beyond the world (Jesus, Buddha etc.) which is more inward and deals with unlocking your true self and thus freeing yourself from the burden of the world.

Now it seems as though both ways are a progression of their own. But to what direction is what differs. You can look at it like the Jedi's in Star Wars.

Like one user mentioned before me that it was probably at the time when Christianity was made state religion in Constantinopel by Constantine throughout the Roman empire that "paganism" infiltrated the christian thinking. And of course through the other church councils and other things.

If one looks at the words of Jesus, Buddha and others who found heaven within themselves one can see that they are only talking about that, but through the manipulation of "the laws of the world (mathematics, gematria, and astrology f.ex.) pagans who rewrote the original books (the masoretes, the copy scriptures, and later church men) over and over again to perfect their hidden knowledge of the material world.

To strengthen my point: The passage where Jesus talks about people not cleaning their inner cup but rather only their outer cup./ He was simply shaming people for not trying to perfect themselves in their inner qualities towards that which is all good. But are only interested in outwardly things: Vanity; honor amongst people or f.ex.: astroldlogy, science etc.
Thus he said; Clean your inner cup, and your outer cup will be clean also. (paraphrased with same conclusion)

So, he was not against the dabbles of the "occult de mysterioso" rather that they would be used for good, thus, cleansing ourselves on the inside, where heaven is. For certainly we are in this world when we are and thus we cannot escape living the world, but that doesn't mean one has to neglect his inner outer-worldly nature which comes quite easily once well on the way.

For like he said, broad is the opening of the road that leads to devastation and it's end a bottleneck, narrow is the opening of the road to salvation and it's end broad. (paraphrashed with same conclusion)

So no, Christ did not teach us what was worldly, though he no doubt knew all these things also. He even disses the pharisees over this saying; Why should I reveal to you that which is heavenly when you cannot understand when I talk of worldly things? (Paraphrased with same conclusion).

Are you clean on the inside? 'Cause the outside does not matter as much (you decide if pun or not )



Edit to add:__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Forgot to congratulate you on your first thread. It is mighty well hypothesized, well versed, not to astray from reality, but I suggest you at least ponder on what I commented on. Those who rule abide by simple rules in basic. One being: If we don't have it, we sure will. Sadly...

Great to have great minds joining here with good ideas and showing that not all is concrete in our past observations and accepted dogmatism.

Don't ever hunting for knowledge, from whence wisdom may be bestowed upon you and expand your mind and fill your soul with reason.

May god bestow his cornerstone of care, love, happiness, belief, faith and hope upon you.

reply to post by pleasethink

The pagan incorporations in christian dogma which has also been referred to in this post have no known place in the Bible.

The virgin birth, miracles, and resurrection are all pagan in origin. Jesus telling his disciples to follow the man with a water jug in his hands is pagan in origin, the last supper is pagan in origin. All of these things are within the bible, all fabricated and interpolated by pagan Rome to cater to their pagan citizens. It's much easier to get a pagan to convert when you show them all these pagan themes that Jesus was supposedly a part of.

The book of Revelation is entirely pagan as well. There are numerous references to Greek gods in Acts even calling Paul and Barnabas Hermes and Zeus. Numerous mentions of Troy and the surrounding area are also within Acts. Rome was famous for cultural and religious diffusion, that is taking others ideas and reworking them to fir their own needs.

Paganism's fingerprint is all over the bible, that's not even including the so-called "Christian" holidays that you pointed out, they are pagan in origin as well.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


I disagree. I find the holiday situation believable , but I think a lot of this is reaching/seeing something there because one is looking for said thing thus finds ways to incorporate despite logic saying otherwise. But I respect your right to interpretation.

reply to post by pleasethink


The miracles attributed to Jesus aren't unique to him, pagan gods did similar things before Jesus ever came onto the scene. Mithras had the Eucharist before Jesus, Bacchus and Dionysus rose from the dead be for Jesus; gods, demigods, and titans were born from a virgin and were half human/half god before Jesus.

I'm not reaching if the parallels exist. I'd say it's reaching to say the parallels don't exist.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Fire and Space heaters have parallels. Are they the same? Many things have parallels in this life. Some may be connected, some may not. Just because their are perceived likenesses, does not make them one and the same. This is where paranoia comes from, as people have issues making connections where none exist. Please do not take that as a knock, I am just stating something for clarity. Would you except a schizophrenic mumbling words to himself on the bus as speaking the gospel truth. I will tell you something, Constantine did change many things as far as the way God is worshipped in the Roman empire. And he did these things to ease the transition. The reason he did this was because he had a vision of a cross in the sky before a battle. This is well documented. The reasons these changes never made it to the Bible is because of certain restrictions within the Bible itself. It says explicitly that anyone adding onto the Word was to be put to death. Also, you might want to look at the Dead Sea Scrolls. They have a lot of current event type things, tribal worship guidelines and such, but also possess exact copies of certain books of the Bible. This leads one to believe that they have been preserved through antiquity intact. Also the story of Jesus fits like a key to the Old Testament lock. You would have to read up on the culture. The wikipedia page for Azazel would be a start. It describes the need for an unblemished sacrifice to atone for sin. Jesus fits this mold exactly. There is also a psychological element to it. If one was to study Peter, he personally denied Jesus three times , after being told he was going to deny Him three times, and vehemently denied that this would ever be coming out of his mouth. After Jesus death/resurrection, this man went on to dedicate every day of the last part of his life to traveling and teaching the words of the same man he denied. This is not a shamed and defeated man. Something life affirming happened between the initial denial and the months afterward. He also requested at his martyrdom to be executed upside down(!)(seems a bit more painful and long) because he did not feel fit to die in the same manner as his lord. Where did the denial go? Where did the personal shame and defeat? This man saw something that made him change who he was. Anyways, just saying.

reply to post by pleasethink


If you actually did some research on the subject you'd find that the parallels and similarities are far from "non-existent". From your wording I assume you are Christian believing the bible is the word of god. No surprise that you refuse to see the similarities. Trust me, they are there, you just don't want to see them.

Enough studying into the subject with an open mind would leave no doubt in your mind, but I have a feeling you would just block it all out anyways. The Jesus mythos isn't even remotely unique, in fact it is heavily plagiarized from the many pagan gods that came before him, that much is clear when you look at things objectively.

Mithras was baptized, carried a cross, had a last supper and a ritual identical to the Eucharist long before Jesus ever did. Look into it yourself, it's all there for you to study.

I'm not knocking you either, I'm just giving my opinion.

MITHRA AND CHRISTIANITY PARALLELED

I have a feeling you will ignore this link and dismiss it, no matter how in depth it goes.

Also these processions of the earth wobble had more to do with Egyptian philosophy then Hebrew philosophy. The two really couldn't be different. One associated gods with everything pretty much, one associated everything with God. Many people have drawn parallels between sun worship(egyptians) monotheistic Judaism/Christianity but to my knowledge it has never been accepted even on a scholarly level. And those people would have you believe a large hadron collider jumped out of a sludge pit that got hit by lightning and said "I think therefore I am".

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


There is few problems with your theory. It was a lamb he carried, not a cross. It is from Zoroastrianism, which has no affiliation with Rome, aside from a few nobles who decides to latch on. Zoroaster was persian. Also Jesus actually existed, and there are Roman historians who wrote of his execution. I have read on other posts of the conspiracy that Rome somehow instituted Christianity as a way of subverting the masses. Well, for one, if that was the case, it was a terrible failure. Rome was gone as a world empire shortly thereafter. Two, roman people hateeeeeeeeeeed christians. They wouldn't involve themselves in the orgies or the like. It probably seemed standoffish/holier than thou. Nero personally used to light them on fire to light his garden. There are also writings of him being bothered that they wouldn't scream while dieing. He started a fire to drive them out of Rome, not as some silly false flag attack. This is actual history, not some campaign to destroy organized religion and merge it under a world religion which we all might partake(theosophy, be aware). I did not come to this understanding through faith or belief, although it is an extreme part of my life now. I came to this belief through obsessive reading and studying on the matter. When speaking to my acquaintances over the years, I always tell them, don't listen to me. Read it for yourself. You might find something you needed, or you might find something to hate. Either way, you will know yourself, instead of regurgitating something someone told you.

reply to post by pleasethink


I guess you haven't heard of the Byzantine empire? It was a continuation of the Roman empire except MUCH richer. Same people different name. The creation of Christianity made the Romans VERY rich, they just changed their names to the Byzantines.

Your assumption that Rome didn't subvert the masses is entirely off the mark because that's exactly what happened with the Byzantine empire. The Byzantines (Romans) were one of, if not THE richest empires in the history of the world.

Either way, you will know yourself, instead of regurgitating something someone told you.

This is extremely ironic because this is what I see Christians on this forum do all the time. The bible told them so it's true.

I assume you ignored the link I provided?