Define evil

reply to post by Rapha



Those were in the OT and as such are for the HEBREWS. Gentiles are to follow those commands dictated to them in the NT. The hebrews were given special staus because they were to be a example to all.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Evil is the unconscious or unintended transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Evil is likewise the measure of the imperfectness of obedience to the Father’s will.

Sin is the conscious, knowing, and deliberate transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Sin is the measure of unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed.

Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father’s loving plan of personality survival and the Sons’ merciful ministry of salvation.

reply to post by ketsuko


Ok, what about contract marriages? You know where a father sells his daughter to a man against her will. They used to take place all the time in Catholic Europe and still take place in many parts of the world to this day. Many times the girls are still children when they are forced to marry and many times the men are fully grown.

By the way, slavery is slavery. Just because you could sell yourself into it or buy yourself out of it doesn't excuse what it is, the owning of another human being. These people were still mistreated and considered subhuman (they couldn't vote for one).

Finally, my biggest pet peeve, misogyny. Why is treating women as inferior to men acceptable? It is literally the basis of the Catholic faith. Original sin is based on blaming ALL women for Eve's mistake. Because of this, women cannot serve as priests or in any position of power in the church. They did throw women a bone and let them be nuns, but they are next to irrelevant.

That is the absurdity of sin and evil in general. Misogyny is downright wrong yet is not only not considered a sin (and therefore not evil), but is actually EMBRACED by religion. Another example of this is homophobia, being gay is a sin, yet all it is, is someone deciding (whether that is biologically or a conscious decision is still out for debate) that they like people of their own gender more than the opposite gender.

AfterInfinity
It's interesting how many views there are on evil. Buddhists believe evil and good are like two sides of one coin, Hindus believe that evil is simply the karmic balance doling out the consequences of our actions, Satanists seem to hold a position similar to that of Buddhism, and Christians postulate that good and evil are polar opposite, easily distinguished, and invariably angled in service to one cause or another.

Thoughts?

edit on 29-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I'd say that my thoughts are that there is no such thing as true evil or true good. Everyone is shades of gray and these shades can lighten or darken at any given time depending on a person's current circumstances. To be able to sum up the entirety of someone's life as good or evil is impossible Therefore there could never be an ultimate judging of everyone in the world regarding their goodness.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

What is the tipping point? & who defines what a sin is?

There is actually a genetic component of sin that is present in every mortal at birth.

When a person knowingly transgresses Him they are then in separation until they accept the true Messiah and repent in His name - Yahushua.

This is why a Christian is born again when they repent. The sin component in their DNA is deactivated.

i already know no one will listen because the above info is from repented fallen angel.

How much of these sins do you have to do to become irredeemably evil and destined for hell? I can look at the seven deadly sins (by the way, hate isn't one of them) and seem them in just about anyone I meet.

Like i said, Google/Wikipedia it. i don't know everything if anything at all.

i differ with the angel as i view children as still innocent until they can discern the difference between right and wrong.

1 small teeny weeny sin is the same as a full blown evil sin in the eyes of our Lord.

Also, what about things like racism (promoted in the bible with the whole "God's chosen people thing"), slavery (also in the bible),

Those who exploit their superiority to torture, gas, murder, enslave, rape etc will burn in the Lake of Fire after Judgement Day, unless of course, they repent in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ beforehand.

drug use (they drink wine in the bible)

WT?. Since when is alcohol a drug. If that is true then lock up the elite now as they drink spirits everyday.

Suicide is supposed to be the ultimate sin, again what is the moral wrongness of this act?

It is in how the Lord views the act. He gave that person life that only He can give and got a kick in the teeth for it. Fine, then that person will never witness life ever again.

None of this makes sense.

How come ? Its simple. Only faith in Jesus Christ will allow the sinner's name to be written back into the Book of Life.

Everyone else (99.99% of the world population of born sinners) will crash and burn into the Lake of Fire after that final day.
Noahs Ark was just the same. All sinners drowned and their spirits were damned to roam this planet for ever more.

Believers in Christ get instant passes? Hitler was a believer in Christ, he is in Heaven?

Remember Jesus said Mt 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
In other words, people like Bush Jr, says he is a Christian, yet will be judged with innocent blood on his hands.
Many politicians, arms dealers, weapons manufacturers, mad scientists, soldiers and terrorists will all go to hell for murder.

Those priests committed sodomy and will also burn in hell if they don't repent.

Revelation 20:11-15

....And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Acts 16:31

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved."

Hence automatically clensed and written into the Book of Life.

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but will have eternal life."

Hence given a new perfect body on this planet after Judgement Day.

i sense a lot of anger in your words. Flame away. These flames are nothing compared to the Lake of Fire. There all that one hears is the wind and the flames as no sinner has any fleshy lungs left to scream through.

reply to post by Rapha


Alcohol has always been a drug, didn't you take dare. Off the top of my head I believe the definition is: Any food or substance that significantly changes the way the mind and or body works.

reply to post by Rapha


First off, whatever gave you the idea that I was angry? Second, yes alcohol is a drug.

Also please prove this claim of yours of there being a genetic component of sin. Telling me that some angel told you that was true doesn't cut it. Produce the evidence or look silly for making outlandish claims.

Why should I google your ideas? I don't believe in a set tipping point where after someone sins so much they are considered evil. If one exists it is your duty to provide evidence of its existence. Also it is your belief.

So your idea of ultimate goodness is faith in Jesus Christ? Sounds dumb to me. I guess all the ancient civilizations that didn't know about Christianity are all burning in hell then... All those poor Buddhists who are probably the closest to being humanly good are burning as well.

Are you aware that many of your beliefs aren't in the bible, but were shaped by early Catholic leaders? The concept of hell, Revelations, seven deadly sins, genetic component of sin in dna (I'm not even sure where you came up with this crazy idea) among a few of them. So basically you are parroting interpretations of the bible and Christian dogma from the Middle Ages. I guess it's not surprising then that your worldview of how things are is so damn depressing (99% of the people on the planet are destined for hell... Damn... God loves us all SOOO much that he is going to torture the majority of us for all eternity for the actions we did within a super small fraction of that eternity)

Agnostic atheist here. Hope it's okay for me to chime in.

I don't see people as evil on the individual level. The closest I can see is the entire species as being evil. So I stick to their being a perception of evil acts, relative to the observers values and belief structure.

Evil tends to have cultural bounds. There is many things which would pass as acceptable in the west, that would be abhorrent in the east, and vice versa. Hell, some things down south just don't jive with up north.

The further I expand out, the more relative I view everything, and more selfish I can see at it's root.

So I'd basically have to go with aristotle- "There is only one good, knowledge, and only one evil, ignorance".

reply to post by webedoomed


Yea, this is a pretty good description of my worldview as well. Evil and good are relative and can change from person to person and even from day to day between the same people. They are good concepts to consider though since they help establish boundaries of what should and shouldn't be done, but to use them as labels to describe someone is wrong.

Evil is generally defined as some kind of activity that interferes with a society's ability to: 1) determine the ownership of property, and 2) engage in peaceful reproduction. Not necessarily in that order.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


There is "service to self without concern to damage to others" vs "service to all/self with wisdom of cause of suffering to others".

It is the golden rule and what you seed you will reap. From my point of view people who are garmented in their faith but blind to their own "service to self without concern to damage to others" are screwed and they are screwed by their own blindness and lack of ability to do what is morally right according to the golden rule.

ketsuko

Jesus is God. God knows how is with him and who isn't. If we go with the Book of Revelation, everyone left on earth at that time has either chosen to go with the Beast or not. Those who have not will either be dead at the Beast's order or a hunted remnant. Things are going to be pretty will divided up, either with Him or against Him.

I disagree with your claim that Jesus is god. Jesus is one with god not god. Being one with something else and at the same time being a separate part seem to be a concept western civilization have a hard time getting while the Hindus, Buddhist and Sikhs have more experience in the concept. It is like a cell being a part of a body but not the whole body but still connected to the whole body. The difference becomes very little and maybe even meaningless but it is still there.

I have told you, and you do not believe. The works I am doing in My Father’s name tell the truth about Me. You do not listen; you lack faith because you are not My sheep. My sheep respond as they hear My voice; I know them intimately, and they follow Me. I give them a life that is unceasing, and death will not have the last word. Nothing or no one can steal them from My hand. My Father has given the flock to Me, and He is superior to all beings and things. No one is powerful enough to snatch the flock from My Father’s hand. The Father and I are one.

If Jesus was god his father could not have given the flock to him and it would have been in Jesus name not Jehovah (The existing ONE).

reply to post by Krazysh0t

Interesting thread.
Honestly, all evil mainly comes down to one thing.
Idolatry of self, AKA selfishness.
Pride, greed, hurting others, lack of charity, etc... Are all offshoots of worshiping/loving self above God or your fellow man.

reply to post by defcon5


Putting yourself above all others. That is a great way to put it. I also think putting your family above all others counts as well. Selfish mentality is a plague if you ask me.

TKDRL
I also think putting your family above all others counts as well.

Ah, but that is ultimately selfishness too, even if you don't realize it.
Its fear of pain cause by the loss of something/someone dear to you.
When someone dies and you grieve for them, you are not really grieving for them, but for your hurt and loss.
Everything “sinful” ultimately ties back to some type of selfishness.

reply to post by defcon5


I would agree that everything "sinful" ties into selfishness, but think ultimately all actions are selfish if we expand out enough.

Is not doing something for the "greater good" selfish? Whether that be family, society, culture, or species? How could someone possibly do good to all of life at once?

I think in every action, there is compromise, and attention based on one's own values and beliefs. This own projection of good outside our subjective belief is a form of selfishness in itself.

reply to post by defcon5

When someone dies and you grieve for them, you are not really grieving for them, but for your hurt and loss.

Wow...... you know, I have had that same thought cross my mind a few times. I mean for me, I am agnostic if anything I guess, so I don't know what to think. I always thought it was really strange to see staunch christians crying over death though, I mean if what they believe is true, the dead are far better off than us still among the living. Kinda OT I know.

As far as putting family above all others, I meant like you see some people just seem to only care about their kids. As long as their kids are fed, clothed, schooled adequately, then all is fine with the world. Obviously I know you can't take care of everyone..... But, school shootings were never a big issue when they were just happening in the ghettos for example. Once it happened in suburbia, all of a sudden there was concern, school violence was now in the news. It's that kinda thing that bothers me, and I am just a redneck right? I am not supposed to care about the inner city lol.

reply to post by TKDRL


That ties into what I was saying. Whether conscious of it or not, we all choose to be aware and care for that which we value and relate to. Some people are more aware, and expand their circle of empathy. They more easily relate. Perhaps they have higher abilities to abstract, and find likeness in that which is more outside their concrete circle of relations.

Regardless of the case, it seems to me that people are running ultimately off complex survival mechanisms, though some seem to back/misfire in modern society. In this sense, it's always selfish. Even if we are vegetarian, we take from the earth. Even if we would like to do no harm, if we allow ourselves to be aware, we harm by mere existence alone.

People seem to have a need to be unaware of their actions impact on the whole of life or merely humanity, or even their ability to shut off from others in the first place. Some people can hang with the notion that they don't give a poo about others.

Essentially we all have survival instincts that coalesce with our genetic propensitites. We are shaped within the context of a living entity interacting with environmental stressors, forming beliefs and values that usually smooth out the edges of our inherent weaknesses.

Evil is defined by individuals and collective/democracy which is composed of individuals.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


GOD is aware of your confusion and mine as well.I've often asked the same questions and the only answer I came up with is that GOD's definition of good and evil probably doesn't tally with ours and it might be a bad idea to try and second guess it.I just live my life in accordance with what I personally think is right based on my faith.I would,personally,define evil as a lack of conscience.As far as the people go that GOD created with mental or physical impairments I believe HE did so for a reason HE doesn't have to tell me and HE will take that into account when their time comes so I don't worry about them.Trying to put a textbook definition on good and evil is not something that we are qualified to do.We barely understand ourselves and the universe we live in,I would not expect us to be able to define or understand the workings of GOD.For believers,this is where understanding stops and faith begins.Maybe,someday,after we've grown up and become civilized we may be able to put a loosely described definition of good and evil as it applies to the individual in textbook form but don't look for it.In the meantime,do what you know is right.