800000 killed by Big Bad Pharma - breaking story

8000000 people in 5 years i am still trying to get my head around that figure and that is just in europe

sugar kills millions per year worldwide more than all the illegal drugs combined

but this person should be hung/drawn/quartered on live worldwide tv for his crime

first time in a long while i have been speachless and not a word on msm i notice

reply to post by marg6043


All the specific details are not clear yet, but yes, 9 times out of 10 the pharmacist does flag interactions. Far more than doctors do. I know they have saved my ill mother's life countless times.

Firstly, beta-blockers aren't statins.
They are two very different drugs given for very different reasons.

Secondly, Polderman wasn't employed nor sponsored by pharma.

So if anything, blame the doctors for prescribing these in error as a result of bad research rather than the drugs themselves.

reply to post by Bluesma


Hits the nail on the head. This is not an example of Big Pharma robbing the people, they didn't prescribe the drugs...but did they pay the doctors to prescribe them???

Whether they did pay them or not, the doctors are at fault as they are the ones that wrote the prescriptions and advised the patients to take the drugs. Can't blame Big Pharma for everything!

Pardon?
Firstly, beta-blockers aren't statins.
They are two very different drugs given for very different reasons.

Secondly, Polderman wasn't employed nor sponsored by pharma.

So if anything, blame the doctors for prescribing these in error as a result of bad research rather than the drugs themselves.

Statins and beta-blockers are often prescribed together. I linked to the article assuming this was pretty common knowledge and thought it might provoke some to question whether this was known about for some time and that efforts were being made to get ahead of the problem.

Beta-Blockers, Statins: A One-Two Combination
www.georgetownhospitalsystem.org...

Beta-blockers are among the most commonly used drugs for controlling high blood pressure and improving blood flow to the heart. They slow the heart rate, lower blood pressure, and decrease the amount of work the heart must do. By lowering the heart's oxygen needs, beta-blockers may help prevent or relieve poor blood flow.

. . .

Statins are the most frequently prescribed type of cholesterol-lowering drugs. They block a key liver enzyme involved in cholesterol production. This helps restrict the amount of cholesterol that can be deposited into the blood. It also increases the amount of LDL, or "bad," cholesterol that can be removed from the blood. Studies have shown that people who use statins have a reduced risk for heart attack, stroke, chest pain, and death from a heart-related condition.

reply to post by beckybecky


From the link:

"They note that more than half of the lives lost—potentially more than 400,000—may 'have occurred after the research was discredited,'

I still would like to know the mean age of those that died from malpractice of medication treatments. To me, this means that doctors are pushing drugs at patients faster than they can understand what side effects are produced by consumed medications...moreover, we don't know from the research whether or not other medications were taken by patients which exacerbated the patient heart conditions when taken with these beta blockers.

Some information has not been presented to us to make a clear conclusion big pharma is to blame. I think doctors and nurses are to blame for this.

No surprise...

Statins have fallen under the same discredit... For many years Tylenol was the best selling pain killer which J&J never told people that it could not be taken with alcohol, say for hangovers, because it would cause liver failure... killed 10,000s??

search
total tylenol deaths with alcohol

reply to post by wrathofall


I am glad that you keep an eye on the medications you mom takes, make sure that she is not taking to0 many, the medical community has been targeting the elderly for a while to keep the profits of big pharma going, because the more the doctor prescribe the more incentives they get.

My primary doctor is a pill pusher, but she has been unsuccessful with me, the last time I was in her office and while waiting for my turn to be seen I started listening to the next door person, an elderly lady in her seventies as she was been asked about the medications she was taking, the walls were soo thin I could hear the name of the medications and her complains about what she was feeling, this particular lady was on 11 different medications, many of them were just to fight the side effects of more powerful ones, when the nurse was finished with her, she moved to the room in the other side where it was another elderly lady waiting, I counted about 15 different medications that the other lady was taken and with the same complains, at that moment and that day I came to the conclusion that I will never ever allow any doctor having me eating pills all day

My mother also was on 9 different medications at one time my sister that works in the medical community has been able to lower the amount of pills she is taking.

Its just incredible how things are been done here in this nation to our elderly people after the doctors uses scaremongering on them, and yes doctors has tried to scare me too, as soon I tell them how I feel the do not try again.

reply to post by marg6043


My wife was put on Lipitor and Eztrol for alleged cholesterol problems. Her doctor did a crap job, she got memory loss and muscle pain from the Lipitor, so they had her take QC10. But then they also put her on Beta Blockers and Coversil for hypertension (she has a thickening of the heart wall). So after about 3 days on the meds, she starts getting pancreatic pain (from the Eztrol it appears), breaks out in hives and complains of dizziness, so I checked her blood pressure and she was 92 over 44. I called her idiot heart doctor (who weighs about 450 pounds and has to take a special bus between hospitals because he's just too bloody fat to drive a car, what an example he sets) to give him her stats and ask to take her off ALL the meds, but he wasn't there. His nurse however, tells me she should stay on the meds until I can get her into his office two days later. Being concerned that these idiots didn't understand the gravity of the situation, I took her off the meds right then and took her to the hospital. The hospital treated her and told me that she was crashing and if she had not stopped the pills, she would have been dead in less than 24 hours.

That's doctors and big pharma. I would love to give this idiot doctor's name, so that people would steer clear of this jack-ass, but I am quite sure he would try to sue me even though I am simply providing a warning, opinion and commentary. But, if your cardiac doctor is in Eastern Canada and weighs in at more than 400 pounds, you might want to get a different heart doctor.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by bobs_uruncle


I read somewhere a long time ago that if you are put in three or more medicines and you are not in any imminent danger when it comes to your health you should question the doctor about it and if you get side effects from any medicine that you feel uncomfortable and takes away your quality of life, that medication is not worth taking.

I live by it, most doctors only prescribe drugs because it means income, but is also doctors out there that are medical practitioners but also practice naturopathy, they can find a combination of drugs and natural alternatives that can decrease the need for medical drugs that means less side effects.

FYI, statins deplete your body of CoQ10. You should look into taking it along with the statin if you feel it's necessary.

Don't take this as medical advice. Do your own reserach to make sure there's no interactions with whatever else you may be taking, or another condition you may have. Ask your doctor if it's okay for you to take.

I have heard some people die from depletion of CoQ10 due to taking statins. My father now takes CoQ10 every day along with his beta blockers and statins.

He's been on them for about 15 years, and his memory has been steadily declining since he started.

He is fully aware that his blood pressure is controllable by cutting down the belly, and has the ability to control his diet, however he doesn't like "looking so thin". It's absolutely ridiculous. We're in Texas and he's trying to act like a bubba for no good reason.

It will be the death of him. Such a shame, but his choice.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TAKEN ANY STATIN!

They are designed to debilitate you and keep you coming back to the doctor for other problems.
They cause muscle and joint problems and God only knows what else.

Two years ago I convinced an 80 year old friend to stop taking Lipitor. He was getting weaker
and weaker. He would go to the health club pool every day and could barely manage 3 or 4 laps when
he stopped taking the Lipitor. Now he is 82, and goes to the pool every day and swims 100 laps. He
is convinced and I would not want to be the doctor who would try to get him back on a statin.

marg6043
reply to post by bobs_uruncle

 

I read somewhere a long time ago that if you are put in three or more medicines and you are not in any imminent danger when it comes to your health you should question the doctor about it and if you get side effects from any medicine that you feel uncomfortable and takes away your quality of life, that medication is not worth taking.

I live by it, most doctors only prescribe drugs because it means income, but is also doctors out there that are medical practitioners but also practice naturopathy, they can find a combination of drugs and natural alternatives that can decrease the need for medical drugs that means less side effects.

I got her off all the drugs, got her exercising more, put lots of garlic, some cinnamon and ginger into her food and managed to get her cholesterol down from 7.4 to 4.2. Her blood pressure is now around 110/75, at rest pulse less than 75 and she lost about 25 pounds. So, you're right, natural methods do work in many cases. Oh, and I also got her off as much GMO crap as I could, as an example using virgin olive oil instead of canola oil and growing our own vegetables. One other interesting development, her vascular blockages dropped from 40% down to 20% over a two year period confirmed by angiograms.

Cheers - Dave

Skywatcher2011
reply to post by beckybecky

 

From the link:

"They note that more than half of the lives lost—potentially more than 400,000—may 'have occurred after the research was discredited,'

I still would like to know the mean age of those that died from malpractice of medication treatments. To me, this means that doctors are pushing drugs at patients faster than they can understand what side effects are produced by consumed medications...moreover, we don't know from the research whether or not other medications were taken by patients which exacerbated the patient heart conditions when taken with these beta blockers.

Some information has not been presented to us to make a clear conclusion big pharma is to blame. I think doctors and nurses are to blame for this.

who hired this guy?

how did he get appointed?

who appointed him?

what was the selection criteria?

were they aware of his past?

who influenced the hiring panel?

has he been promised a "consultancy" job after he leaves this job?

We need to write to them and find out and root out the corruption.

how much has be benefited?

Don Poldermans was a respected physician before this scandal.
To be precise, the charges were on one study (the one which is relevant here). The situation isn't as clear cut as it sounds here.
The "whistle blower" himself is the source of part of the charges. He as working on the trial for Poldermans, and did things like not getting consent from patients before enrolling them in the trials. This was not known by Poldermans, but legally he is held responsible for that. more on Poldermans scandal


-My personal reflection is- if you can get yourself working on a study, and then do some unethical things on it sneakily, then blow the whistle on that later, getting the responsible one you tricked blamed, what an easy way to destroy someone!

Not saying I believe this man to be innocent, just saying it isn't that clear. He was a researcher with a clean past and a huge amount of research behind him before that study.

Also, the media loves to use big numbers in mortality rates- but the reality is, they are calculated in ways which cannot stand reliably. There are not 800,000 individuals known to be dead and suspected of that being caused by this treatment. Another study showed a potential percentage of deaths that could be influenced by using beta blockers to prepare for a cardiac surgery, in a small sample, and then that is applied to the larger numbers of people who have had this treatment for surgery over the years. No individual cases are examined.

[url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryhusten/2013/07/31/european-heart-guidelines-based-on-disgraced-research-may-have-caused-thousands-of-deaths/[/ur l]

In an interview, Francis said that there is no way to reliably assess the true extent of the possible damage, either in the UK or elsewhere. The estimate of 10,000 deaths is based on the limited available data.

Sanjay Kaul said that he generally agreed with the conclusions of the Heart paper that the evidence does not support strong recommendations for perioperative beta blockade, but he said that “the mortality evidence against beta blockade is not robust.”

The subject is complex. For example-

Some defenders of perioperative beta-blockade have argued that although initiating beta-blockers on the same day as surgery may be dangerous, a slow and gradual introduction of the drugs for as long as 30 days before surgery may be beneficial. However, according to Francis, this strategy has never been tested in a clinical trial outside of the DECREASE family.

(DECREASE was the study in question that Poldermans did.)

Bluesma
Don Poldermans was a respected physician before this scandal.
To be precise, the charges were on one study (the one which is relevant here). The situation isn't as clear cut as it sounds here.
The "whistle blower" himself is the source of part of the charges. He as working on the trial for Poldermans, and did things like not getting consent from patients before enrolling them in the trials. This was not known by Poldermans, but legally he is held responsible for that. more on Poldermans scandal


-My personal reflection is- if you can get yourself working on a study, and then do some unethical things on it sneakily, then blow the whistle on that later, getting the responsible one you tricked blamed, what an easy way to destroy someone!

Not saying I believe this man to be innocent, just saying it isn't that clear. He was a researcher with a clean past and a huge amount of research behind him before that study.

Also, the media loves to use big numbers in mortality rates- but the reality is, they are calculated in ways which cannot stand reliably. There are not 800,000 individuals known to be dead and suspected of that being caused by this treatment. Another study showed a potential percentage of deaths that could be influenced by using beta blockers to prepare for a cardiac surgery, in a small sample, and then that is applied to the larger numbers of people who have had this treatment for surgery over the years. No individual cases are examined.

[url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryhusten/2013/07/31/european-heart-guidelines-based-on-disgraced-research-may-have-caused-thousands-of-deaths/[/ur l]

In an interview, Francis said that there is no way to reliably assess the true extent of the possible damage, either in the UK or elsewhere. The estimate of 10,000 deaths is based on the limited available data.

Sanjay Kaul said that he generally agreed with the conclusions of the Heart paper that the evidence does not support strong recommendations for perioperative beta blockade, but he said that “the mortality evidence against beta blockade is not robust.”

The subject is complex. For example-

Some defenders of perioperative beta-blockade have argued that although initiating beta-blockers on the same day as surgery may be dangerous, a slow and gradual introduction of the drugs for as long as 30 days before surgery may be beneficial. However, according to Francis, this strategy has never been tested in a clinical trial outside of the DECREASE family.

(DECREASE was the study in question that Poldermans did.)

How many people does it take before it becomes wrong?

A thousand? Fifty thousand?

A million?

How many people DOES IT TAKE?

beckybecky


How many people does it take before it becomes wrong?

A thousand? Fifty thousand?

A million?

How many people DOES IT TAKE?

I do not understand your questions.
Do you ask about the study, and the faults of the researchers being wrong?
I think it was wrong, yes.
Study and research should definately be well controlled and documented.
They were not rigorous enough.
Not one person has to die for that to be true.
That was acknowledged publicly, the doctor was held accountable for the mistakes that were made under his responsibility, his career ended; the European Society of Cardiology revised their recommendations.

WHAT IS THE CAPS ABOUT? I am confused!

-and did you understand... it is not clear that anyone has died as a result of the usage of beta blockers in prep for cardiac surgery? The estimates are based upon a separate study, in which they were used (in a different way from the study in question, as well) which suggests the possibility.

If it were more clear that it is the case that even one person died because of this treatment, then manslaughter charges would be applied. But that is not how things work- they don't wait until that happens- they take action as soon as it can be seen there is even a slight chance it might.

reply to post by chiefsmom

I cannot remember the med that whom ever was trying to sale, but sometime back, I saw a commercial about a particular drug, and one of the side effects were suicide. I couldn't believe it!

The biggest issue remains that people can't or won't think for themselves.

Every time people have some sort of health issue they run off to the doctor and when he/she is prescribed meds, they simply swallow without asking question.

And what happened to asking the most logical questions of yourself? Am I healthy? Do I exercise enough? Am I overweight? If so, what will I do to lose weight? How's my diet? Do I eat processed food? Do I drink soda? If your gut is hanging out over your pants, then why the hell do you think you might have back pain, hip pain, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, acid reflux, heart issues, various inflammation of the tissue, depression, etc?

As someone who's worked in the health industry, a large percentage of health problems are directly a product of our diets and fitness levels. From various joint/muscle pain to inflammation/arthritis to sleep issues/cholesterol/blood pressure to heart disease/kidney issues/liver issue to depression. For the most part almost all of it can be traced back to a poor diet(processed food) and lack of exercise/fitness.

People need to stop with the excuses. Deep down they know when they're living an unhealthy lifestyle but instead would rather their doctor offer a quick fix in the form of a pill. Doctors are just as guilty, offering these pills instead of forcing lifestyle changes. Everyone wants it easy!

double post