Jerusalem as the Harlot of Revelation

LittleByLittle

OptimusSubprime
reply to post by Belcastro

 

You know what... I saw the title of this thread and made some assumptions. I figured I would chime in and set you straight, but after reading through your OP and thinking about it... you have presented a very interesting theory here. Currently I am of the opinion that the Harlot, or as the KJV says "Great Whore", is the Roman Catholic Church, as well as every other form of false religion. You made some great points in your OP and I am going to really look into what you are saying here.

In a way every man made religion is a harlot (idol of what it should be), every social system is a harlot (corrupted by few and unjust) and the destruction of nature for material wealth without concern of the stewardship is a harlot (suicidal nature of man). Humanity has fallen far but sometimes starting over and knowing your mistakes means you can avoid doing them again. The fear I have is that someone is trying to make revelation true with nuclear weapons (self fulfilling since some people have an agenda). So please everyone who reads this thread stay out of Jerusalem or Mecca if you do not have a very good reason for going.

edit on 30-1-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)

I believe that Revelation is a prophecy of things to come and that we are living in the last days. Having said that, I also believe in God's sovereign predestination, meaning that anyone in the world today who is trying to bring about the events of Revelation is not self fulfilling because their actions and agenda are part of God's plan to begin with. The people who are carrying out their agenda(s) may believe that they are self fulfilling, but they were part of God's sovereign plan all along.

OptimusSubprime

LittleByLittle

OptimusSubprime
reply to post by Belcastro

 

You know what... I saw the title of this thread and made some assumptions. I figured I would chime in and set you straight, but after reading through your OP and thinking about it... you have presented a very interesting theory here. Currently I am of the opinion that the Harlot, or as the KJV says "Great Whore", is the Roman Catholic Church, as well as every other form of false religion. You made some great points in your OP and I am going to really look into what you are saying here.

In a way every man made religion is a harlot (idol of what it should be), every social system is a harlot (corrupted by few and unjust) and the destruction of nature for material wealth without concern of the stewardship is a harlot (suicidal nature of man). Humanity has fallen far but sometimes starting over and knowing your mistakes means you can avoid doing them again. The fear I have is that someone is trying to make revelation true with nuclear weapons (self fulfilling since some people have an agenda). So please everyone who reads this thread stay out of Jerusalem or Mecca if you do not have a very good reason for going.

edit on 30-1-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)

I believe that Revelation is a prophecy of things to come and that we are living in the last days. Having said that, I also believe in God's sovereign predestination, meaning that anyone in the world today who is trying to bring about the events of Revelation is not self fulfilling because their actions and agenda are part of God's plan to begin with. The people who are carrying out their agenda(s) may believe that they are self fulfilling, but they were part of God's sovereign plan all along.

I can think that might be a part of it also. Synchronicity is part of what is and many are not even aware off the so called strange ways of god. But predestination is sometimes not easy to handle for those who are experiencing it.

sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Belcastro

 

Interesting material.
I have written several detailed threads on this subject, if you are interested...

The Bible identifies the whore of Babylon as Jerusalem.

Revelation : The whores "fornication" is usury.

Revelation : The whores name explained.

Jerusalem isn't mentioned by name in the book of Revelation.

Hope you don't mind me doing a little self-advertising on your thread.

it's all wrong, the whore is the jewish priesthood of Jerusalem ! the bride is the christian priesthood

reply to post by Belcastro
The 7 Mountains (Revelation 17:9) refer to Jerusalem, not Rome. The seven mountains upon which Jerusalem was built are Mount Zion, Mount Ophel, Mount Moriah, Mount Bezetha, Mount Acra, Mount Gareb, and Mount Goath. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

There is a debate about whether the seven mountains, referred to in Revelation 17:9, are mountains or hills. I saw some very complex answers through Strong's, etc. but I googled and came up with this. *L*

What's the difference between a hill and a mountain?
Unfortunately, there is no universally accepted standard definition for the height of a mountain or a hill although a mountain usually has an identifiable summit. In the United Kingdom, a mountain must be over 600 meters (1969 feet) or over 300 meters (984 feet) if it's an abrupt difference in the local topography. However, some hills can be called mountains and some mountains can be called hills - it's just a matter of the original name given to the relief.
Source: geography.about.com...

LittleByLittle

OptimusSubprime

LittleByLittle

OptimusSubprime
reply to post by Belcastro

 

You know what... I saw the title of this thread and made some assumptions. I figured I would chime in and set you straight, but after reading through your OP and thinking about it... you have presented a very interesting theory here. Currently I am of the opinion that the Harlot, or as the KJV says "Great Whore", is the Roman Catholic Church, as well as every other form of false religion. You made some great points in your OP and I am going to really look into what you are saying here.

In a way every man made religion is a harlot (idol of what it should be), every social system is a harlot (corrupted by few and unjust) and the destruction of nature for material wealth without concern of the stewardship is a harlot (suicidal nature of man). Humanity has fallen far but sometimes starting over and knowing your mistakes means you can avoid doing them again. The fear I have is that someone is trying to make revelation true with nuclear weapons (self fulfilling since some people have an agenda). So please everyone who reads this thread stay out of Jerusalem or Mecca if you do not have a very good reason for going.

edit on 30-1-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)

I believe that Revelation is a prophecy of things to come and that we are living in the last days. Having said that, I also believe in God's sovereign predestination, meaning that anyone in the world today who is trying to bring about the events of Revelation is not self fulfilling because their actions and agenda are part of God's plan to begin with. The people who are carrying out their agenda(s) may believe that they are self fulfilling, but they were part of God's sovereign plan all along.

I can think that might be a part of it also. Synchronicity is part of what is and many are not even aware off the so called strange ways of god. But predestination is sometimes not easy to handle for those who are experiencing it.

edit on 30-1-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)

As God is not confined by time as we are, I believe that He already knows the results of our efforts, which we'd think of as being 'predestination'. However, we still have to go through the whole slog of making our own choices and decisions. If we think our outcome is predetermined already, without our input, then we'll just give up and that will be our end result.

reply to post by Maigret

. . . He already knows the results of our efforts, which we'd think of as being 'predestination'.

What people take as predestination, in the Bible, is it saying that when God put into motion the plan of salvation, the sending of His son to earth for our righteousness, that He knew that there would be people who would take advantage of it to become right with God through that means that He has established, and that it would not be all for naught.

reply to post by Belcastro


The spiritual understanding of the "cities" used in scripture are critical to understanding the plan and purpose for Almighty God and the creation of Elohim through mankind.

The cities are named for what they are:

Jerusalem = Jeru (way of life) Salem (peace) = way of life which leads to peace among men.

Those who have been "called out" of the present age (Ecclesia = Called Out Ones) to join in fellowship with Almighty God and Jesus Christ have been called into a "way of life which leads to peace among men" (Jerusalem). Their minds dwell in "spiritual Jerusalem", this is the "New Jerusalem" spoken of in Revelation. Where your mind dwells, is which city you dwell in spiritually.

Babylon = Babel (confusion) Lon (place) = way of life which leads to confusion/argument.

Those who have not yet been called out of the present age, all dwell in spiritual Babylon. Babylon is the confusion of false religious doctrines claiming to be true (Christian/Jewish/Muslim), but keep the traditions of men while breaking the commandments of God. The vast majority of mankind dwells in spiritual Babylon, they think they are worshiping God in spirit and in truth, yet they truly worship God in the manner they think "seems right to them", they create God in their image; make his laws fit their biases in their mind, and choose to worship a form of God more compatible with their personal morality; rather then allowing God to determine the manner of His own worship, according to His perfect Word.

Regarding the "bride"; this concept pertains to Christians (followers of Christ) rather then the broader "Abrahamic Religions". A Church is referred to as a Bride numerous times in scripture, if the bride (church) remained faithful to what Christ taught "If you love me, keep my Fathers commandments", they are not defiled (virgin) spiritually. If they betray what Christ taught "they keep not the commandments of my Father, but the traditions of men in vanity"; they commit spiritual adultery, and become a "harlot" (unfaithful bride) to Jesus Christ.

Which Church determined to break God's Commandments and taught all others after her claiming to be Christian to do so as well?

Which Church teaches the traditions of men (pagan holidays) and labels them Holy unto God (Holy Days of Obligation)?

Which mother Church, has hundreds of daughters churches (mother of all harlots) that broke off in "protest" against her, yet still keep her false doctrines (traditions of men) and break God's commandments?

Answer these questions without bias, and using the Word of God and you will find the Whore of Babylon (Mother of Harlots resulting in spiritual confusion, due to false doctrines).

Judaism cannot be a harlot, for they were never "married" to Jesus Christ (rejected Christ as Passover); only a Christian can be an unfaithful bride to Christ.

God Bless,

reply to post by ElohimJD

. . . Christ taught "If you love me, keep my Fathers commandments" . . .

You just made that up because Jesus never said.
I think you are trying to imply that Jesus taught Judaism.
To see that he didn't, all you have to do is look at the parable of the Good Samaritan.
Jesus was teaching his own commandments.

Which Church determined to break God's Commandments and taught all others after her claiming to be Christian to do so as well?

Revelation was written before there was a Roman Catholic Church.
"Harlot" would be a symbol for a system of extracting wealth from the economy without adding any value to it, but rather causes corruption.
The Roman system was fed by that principle, where they destroyed civilizations to loot them of wealth, to bring it back to the city to be enjoyed by people who were more social parasites than anything else.

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by Belcastro

 

S&F for you my friend. Once your eyes are open....and you see the train wreck that is Israel....you can't close them again.

"Assuredly I say to you, that some of you standing right here before me will not taste death before I come into my kingdom."

Revelations is all about the Jews of that time and the horrors that would happen to them at the hands of the Romans. But Jesus said he would avenge the Jews and destroy "whoever" put them through tribulation. Where is Rome again? Oh....right....destroyed just like he said.

That depends on which Roman Empire you are talking about. The Eastern Roman Empire continued to rule for another 1000 years after the Western one fell, it was called Byzantium.

Krazysh0t
That depends on which Roman Empire you are talking about. The Eastern [...] Western.

And then of course there is the Holy Roman Empire under the French and German emperors.

Just thought I should mention.

jmdewey60
reply to post by Maigret

 

. . . He already knows the results of our efforts, which we'd think of as being 'predestination'.

What people take as predestination, in the Bible, is it saying that when God put into motion the plan of salvation, the sending of His son to earth for our righteousness, that He knew that there would be people who would take advantage of it to become right with God through that means that He has established, and that it would not be all for naught.

edit on 9-4-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Predestination, in theology, is the doctrine that all events have been willed by God. John Calvin interpreted biblical predestination to mean that God willed eternal damnation for some people and salvation for others.
Source: en.wikipedia.org...

You're saying that 'some people will take advantage of it to become right with God', which is also what I'm saying as in 'results of our efforts'; because we ALL do have the free-will to choose/make the effort/take advantage of.

reply to post by Belcastro


If Jerusalem is the correct interpretation of the seven mountains on which that great city sits, then who are the seven kings/heads [also represented by those same mountains] of Jerusalem?

And more importantly, who is the eighth?

reply to post by Maigret

Predestination, in theology, is the doctrine that all events have been willed by God. John Calvin interpreted biblical predestination to mean that God willed eternal damnation for some people and salvation for others.
Source: en.wikipedia.org...

Obviously all that is man-made theories.
I was talking about predestination as taught in the Bible.

You're saying that 'some people will take advantage of it to become right with God', which is also what I'm saying as in 'results of our efforts'; because we ALL do have the free-will to choose/make the effort/take advantage of.

"Saving the world" is making it a better place to live in.
That happens when we accept Jesus as the intermediator between God and man, and receiving God's spirit that is available through Jesus, to be better by living righteously, including not stealing and cheating and murdering and committing adultery.

"Zion" also referred to as "the holy land" is what modern-day Israel really is. I personally believe Zion, should he exist, is a Satanic ideal, pushed by those that wish to see an ultranationalist empire conquer and enslave the Israeli and Arabic people alike by pitting them against one another, as opposed to working together to dethrone the servants of Zion that have infiltrated and imposed upon the Holy Land.

jmdewey60
reply to post by Maigret

 

Predestination, in theology, is the doctrine that all events have been willed by God. John Calvin interpreted biblical predestination to mean that God willed eternal damnation for some people and salvation for others.
Source: en.wikipedia.org...

Obviously all that is man-made theories.
I was talking about predestination as taught in the Bible.

You're saying that 'some people will take advantage of it to become right with God', which is also what I'm saying as in 'results of our efforts'; because we ALL do have the free-will to choose/make the effort/take advantage of.

"Saving the world" is making it a better place to live in.
That happens when we accept Jesus as the intermediator between God and man, and receiving God's spirit that is available through Jesus, to be better by living righteously, including not stealing and cheating and murdering and committing adultery.

When God has finished with the world, there won't be a single bad or evil thing in, or on, it!! Then the world will be a better place...

reply to post by Maigret

When God has finished with the world, there won't be a single bad or evil thing in, or on, it!! Then the world will be a better place...

Metaphorically, this is how this apocalyptic city is described.
That city exists now, and Jesus said already, "It is finished".
The city is the symbolic representation of the church.
People in it are holy and good.

jmdewey60
reply to post by Maigret

 

When God has finished with the world, there won't be a single bad or evil thing in, or on, it!! Then the world will be a better place...

Metaphorically, this is how this apocalyptic city is described.
That city exists now, and Jesus said already, "It is finished".
The city is the symbolic representation of the church.
People in it are holy and good.

If you think this is the best there is, then you have no idea of power of God or of the spiritual perfection of the times to come, my friend!

reply to post by Maigret

If you think this is the best there is, then you have no idea of power of God or of the spiritual perfection of the times to come, my friend!

You may be missing how this church that you despise is full of really good people, and how that didn't happen by accident.
I think you may be not appreciating the power of God, and are looking for some other mythical manifestation of righteousness, like how to pronounce the name of Jesus in Aramaic, something completely useless like that.

Reading the OP one can discern that you have studied and have some good understanding of scripture.

And God used Jerusalem in Bible prophecy as a typical representation of the harlot in Revelation. But ancient Jerusalem that was unfaithful is not just modern-day Jerusalem, or Judaism.

Actually it is ALL of false religion.

Notice that her reign is not over just a single place, nor is she a political element. For example the prophecy clearly states:

(Revelation 17:1, 2) . . .: “Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

So we know she sits on "many waters." In fact her sway is over the entire inhabited earth. These "waters" represent people:

(Revelation 17:15) And he says to me: “The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.


Notice, it is not just a single city, or nation. She sway is over "peoples and crowds and nations and tongues." That is, over all mankind. Not just modern-day Jerusalem.

Also note that she commits fornication, or immoral intercourse with the kings of the earth:

(Revelation 17:1, 2) . . .: “Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

So she is not a political entity. This is further assured, when after her destruction we see the world rulers, representing the earth's political system of things, standing at a distance in fear at her destruction:

(Revelation 18:9, 10) “And the kings of the earth who committed fornication with her and lived in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her, when they look at the smoke from the burning of her, 10 while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and say, ‘Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!’


In actuality ancient Babylon is the seat of all modern-day false religious practices and teachings. Back in the beginning, after the flood, Nimrod was the first that grew mighty and famous as a mighty hunter in opposition to Jehovah.

Just as Jehovah gave the mandate to Adam and Eve to become fruitful and fill the earth, after the flood destroyed all life walking on ground, Jehovah gave the same mandate to Noah.

But Satan did not want mankind to spread out. So he used Nimrod to become a cruel dictator over them and they gathered together in cities and started to build a huge tower to the heaven in defiance of Jehovah God. There, in Babel, God changed the tongues of the people, so that they would not understand each other, and they each group spread out over all the earth, just as Jehovah told them to do.

As they spread out, each of them took with them the same basic false teachings from ancient Babylon, that the soul is immortal, that there is a Hell-fire. Time, distance, and culture has added to and embellished these false teachings, and Satan has even got the Christian congregation to apostatize, turn away from truth, and begin to teach these Satanic lies.

So just as ancient Babylon was the seed of all modern-day religious practices and teachings that defy and dishonor Jehovah God. So too the great Harlot, Babylon the great, is all false religion. She includes Christendom, both the Catholic Church and the Protestant Churches. The Russian Orthodox Church, the Greek Orthodox Church. All parts of "Christendom" whose religious leaders have intermingled with the political rulers of the world.

There is a reason why she is said to have committed immoral intercourse with the kings of the earth. Any religious entity that gets involved with Satan's corrupt and evil political system of things is alienated from God, and has proven themselves to be a part of this wicked world.


The seven mountains represent political powers:

(Revelation 17:9-11) . . .“Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also itself an eighth [king], but springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.


When this prophecy was given to John The Roman Empire ruled the earth. The prophecy says that "fives kings" had fallen, one existed, and one was to come afterward.

The five previous world-powers of Bible prophecy are: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece. The one that existed was the Roman Empire. And the one that had not yet arrived is the Anglo-American duel world Empire.

The ten horns on the seven heads represent all the political system of things. As ten represents something that is complete in an earthly respect. These "ten kings" or the complete political system of things in Satan's control, will soon turn upon false religion, expose her as false, and as the whore she has been, and then completely burn her with fire. Her destruction will be total and complete.

The destruction of false religion, the Great Harlot, Babylon the great will start with the clergy of Christendom. And it will spread out to all other false religions. Soon human governments will get rid of Christendom, then all the others will follow, no more Hinduism, no more Buddhism, no more Judaism, no more Islam.

They are all disgusting and filthy. And Jehovah will give them to cup to drink with which they gave his holy prophets, and his witnesses.

reply to post by jmdewey60


John 14:24
"He who does not love Me does not keep My words (commands); and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me."

Jesus Christ kept and taught the keeping of His Father's law, in fullness, in spirit and in truth. The fact one would come to the conclusion similar to your post is exactly the proof of my post.

Sin = the transgression of God's law (commandments) over 40 times in scripture.

Jesus Christ lived a life without sin. Therefore he lived a life in which he never transgressed God's law, which defines sin over 40 times in scripture. He kept the law of God in perfect obedience in spirit and in truth, through the entirety of his physical life on Earth. He taught others to do so as well.

1 John 3:3-4
"Whoever commits sin also breaks the law of God, and sin is the transgression of the law. And you know that He (Jesus) was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin (transgression of God's law)."

Matt 5:17-19
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law of God or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy (change, alter) but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law of God till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments of God, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does the law of God and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

This understanding will be made known shortly to those with eyes to see and ears to hear. Until then I will follow the example of Christ in obedience to His Fathers law in spirit and in truth, till His Kingdom Come.

God Bless,